HEQ5 - Polar scope reticle orientation in home position

[R1k]

Hi guys, new to SG lounge and new to the hobby. I have just bought my first EQ Mount (Used 2018 model HEQ5 pro, belt modded). 
 

I hate to be the newbie to ask questions about polar alignment, but I have what I hope to be a relatively simple question to answer, yet have had no luck with the search bar.

 

When my mount is in the home position (counterweight bar down) and tripod north my polar scope reticle is orientated as per the attached photograph (photo 1). When I was reading prior to getting the mount I had simply assumed that the reticle would be oriented with 0 being directly at the top and 6 at the bottom when in home position. As this is not the case, my question regards what I do during the process of polar alignment.

Do I rotate the R.A. so that 0 is at the top and 6 is at the bottom and then place Polaris in the relevant position as per my iOS polar alignment app (photo 2) or do I need to somehow rotate the reticle within the polar scope such that the reticle is orientated vertically in the home position?

Are the date and time dials on the mount itself obsolete now that we have the privilege of apps that do the work for us?

Apologies if this is a basic question that has been covered before. 

Edited May 23, 2020 by R1k
Added info

[jambouk]

Common question and it should be clear in the manual about it.

The orientation of the reticle is unimportant. Just rotate the RA axis until 0 is at the top, then polar align. Once you’ve polar aligned you can put the RA back to the home position and your polar alignment will be preserved, as once you are polar aligned, moving either the RA or the Dec is fine as it doesn’t alter the polar alignment. Some people remove and rotate the reticle so 0 Is at the top when the mount is in the home position, but that is just personal choice (and a bit of hassle) and does not mean they get a better polar alignment than everyone else with a wonky reticle. 
 

[R1k]

33 minutes ago, jambouk said:

Common question and it should be clear in the manual about it.

The orientation of the reticle is unimportant. Just rotate the RA axis until 0 is at the top, then polar align. Once you’ve polar aligned you can put the RA back to the home position and your polar alignment will be preserved, as once you are polar aligned, moving either the RA or the Dec is fine as it doesn’t alter the polar alignment. Some people remove and rotate the reticle so 0 Is at the top when the mount is in the home position, but that is just personal choice (and a bit of hassle) and does not mean they get a better polar alignment than everyone else with a wonky reticle. 
 

Thanks so much for the super quick and helpful response. I am reassured by your comment but I still feel uneasy and probably will do until I fully understand the concept so please do bear with me.

I don’t quite understand why the orientation of the reticle makes no difference. Surely Polaris will end up in a totally different position within the polar scope once I return to a home position Following polar alignment with my wonky reticle compared to if it was vertical to begin with? 
 

Imagine polar aligning Polaris to say 3pm on a perfectly vertical reticle in home position in the polar scope.

Now imagine doing this for my wonky reticle, if I adjusted my R.A. to 0 up and 6 down, aligned to 3pm and returned to home position, surely Polaris would end up somewhere near the 4pm mark?

Not sure if I am overthinking this and being stupid. Thanks again for your help

[jambouk]

Over thinking it is good, it means you want to understand it, rather than accept the view of others. I’ll try and think how to explain it better.

Give me 30 mins.

James

[R1k]

7 minutes ago, jambouk said:

Over thinking it is good, it means you want to understand it, rather than accept the view of others. I’ll try and think how to explain it better.

Give me 30 mins.

James

Just had a shower and totally had a lightbulb moment so I think I get it now.

 

The position of Polaris within the scope is identical independent of the reticle orientation following polar alignment even once you return to home. It clicked if imagined all the etching / text on the polar scope had disappeared for both a wonky and straight reticle after polar alignment. The star is in the same position.

 

thanks again!
 

 

[jambouk]

Good. I just remember I'd drawn something on an older thread to help someone else in a similar sitruation, my drawing is somewhere here:

James

[Robindonne]

I had the same questions.  I finally ended up aligning my crosshairs with the home position of the mount.   I know its not important but for me it makes more sense to spend 5 minutes in the work to calibrate the crosshair with the home position. In the end it saves so much time, no rotating the ra axis everytime i have to polaralign.(the dec unfortunately must be rotated every time)

 

The crosshairs aligning is very easy to do btw.  

[R1k]

Thanks again guys, found the drawing you made Jambo, have Re-attached here in case someone else stumbles across this thread it will help.

[R1k]

10 minutes ago, Robindonne said:

I had the same questions.  I finally ended up aligning my crosshairs with the home position of the mount.   I know its not important but for me it makes more sense to spend 5 minutes in the work to calibrate the crosshair with the home position. In the end it saves so much time, no rotating the ra axis everytime i have to polaralign.(the dec unfortunately must be rotated every time)

 

The crosshairs aligning is very easy to do btw.  

How is this done Robin?

[Robindonne]

10 minutes ago, R1k said:

How is this done Robin?

Its not a well explained text but in short:

the most important thing to start with is to make sure the mount is in exact home position and the polarscope is thight in the mount.  Then loosen the biggest black ring on the polarscope, with a white mark on it, and rotate the ring so its facing exactly up. Thighten the ring again and take out the polarscope for the crosshair aligning.  

[Huh]

Thanks for posting this and the wonderful replies. I just got my HEQ5 yesterday and I had a similar question. The zero on my reticule is also a little off from the home position on the RA axis.

On a related question, the manual says to power up the mount in the home position. Does that mean that I power it on to get the polar scope illuminated, do the polar alignment, then turn it off, put the RA axis into the home position, then power it back on?

I turned on the mount for the first time last night. I was able to use the same phone app to do the polar alignment and entered by location, time, etc. But when I went to do the three star alignment it was way off on the first star and pointed down at the driveway. I don't think that I paid much attention to the home position for the RA axis and telescope last night. I went back and checked my long., lat., date and time and they were all correct. Well, I'm going to try again tonight. Thanks in advance for any advice. 

[jambouk]

The HEQ5 doesn’t have the encoders which get upset by not starting in the home position, so I can’t see any reason why to turn it off, putting it in the home position, and then turning on again.

James

[Neil H]

Hi I have the HEQ5 when I do polar alignment I turn on the mount don't touch hand set , I use synscan app this shows you the position the polar scope needs to be in so unlock clutch and turn RA so it matches the app , now look into scope line up Polaris when is is done put mount in home position , now use the handset answer yes to start in home position use the app for the info to put in the hand set  then do the star alignment after this if the if the target is out press escape then press and hold down escape the hand set will say aline  ( the name of the target) so put the target in the centre of the eyepiece then press enter you may have to do this once or twice then your find it will be closer to the target 

[Messy Hair 101]

I find if I set the RA clock so north is zero or midnight, if I turn the RA so the clock reads 21:30, the reticle is orientated correctly. I then set it back to zero for the home position.

Best way to set the RA clock is to rotate RA until your weight bar is horizontal and use a spirit level to check it's level (take the weights off first!). When that's done, set the clock to 18:00, then it will be 0:00 in the home position. This is with the counterweight bar rotated to the left if you're standing "behind" the mount, looking north. Loads of videos about it online.