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1 hour ago, andrew s said:

Such harmony. If you want a stretch as we exit lockdown try:

Godel Ecsher Bach  an Eternal Golden Braid by Douglas Hofstadter 

Regards Andrew 

Any attempt at total understanding of this will necessarily be incomplete. 😉

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@Scotti G you have some major misunderstanding of galaxies , gravity and black holes. The spiral form of galaxies is not due to material falling into the centre. A black hole has the same gravita

Well, this thread has been a fascinating lunchtime read! It's also just cost me a bit of money - I've gone and bought a couple of the books mentioned! What an absolutely fascinating pursuit this

What came before the Big Bang? The Long Tick Tick Tick...

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Just now, George Jones said:

Any attempt at total understanding of this will necessarily be incomplete. 😉

You have obviously know Godels theorem at least in part.

Regards Andrew 

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1 hour ago, George Jones said:

Any attempt at total understanding of this will necessarily be incomplete. 😉

That's where the fun lies George. :) 

Jim 

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Magic or aliens.  They're the only two theories I have, I understand nothing of the two whatsoever but what I don't know about them is still a lot more than the mathematical knowledge required to even start comprehending stuff like this.

 

I just like looking through an eyepiece and going *ooooOOooOOooo*

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I like theoretical physics, but I completely agree with

7 minutes ago, jindivik said:

I just like looking through an eyepiece and going *ooooOOooOOooo*

 

In another thread, I wrote

On 14/08/2019 at 10:01, George Jones said:

 

I have used one scope and three eyepieces for the last ten years.

Evolution of my kit:
1976  10x50 bins;
2006  15x70 bins and camera tripod;
2009  C8SE scope and 3 Hyperion eyepieces.

It seems that compared many folks, I am a minimalist! That notwithstanding, my visual observing sessions mean more to me than I can express in words.

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1 hour ago, jindivik said:

 

 

I just like looking through an eyepiece and going *ooooOOooOOooo*

Be careful, that is how science started :) 

Jim 

 

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8 hours ago, RayD said:

Seems somewhat ironic that Flat Earthers are oddballs 😂

If the mods will excuse me, flat balls are inherently odd.

7 hours ago, saac said:

It was Olly , but his intentions were less concordant and more deprecating- not all scientist are above such Machiavellian play.  Hoyle as you pointed out earlier being a supporter of the steady state theory was openly hostile to Lemaitre's proposal and ridiculed it at every opportunity.  The recent renaming of Hubble's Law to Lemaitre-Hubble law would no doubt be greeted with similar acerbic commentary from Hoyle. 

Each year I spend as much time correcting the misconceptions of the term "big bang" amongst my students as I do pulling weeds from my garden.  The one useful purpose I will concede to its use is that that it provides the students with an opportunity to arrive at a more secure understanding.  

Jim 

I'm an intruding literary type in this conversation so my starting point with your students would be, 'What does bang mean?'  I suspect that after three minutes' discussion the conclusion might be, 'Very little.' Any student arguing that it meant, 'Expansion from a single notional point' would be on a hiding to nothing. At this point 🤣 I'd feel in a strrong position to introduce the idea that 'Bang' was not a bad term to describe an event as yet incomprehensible but, within the limits of our present comprehension, real.

Olly

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27 minutes ago, goodricke1 said:

And what has a beginning must have an end, right Jim? ;)

Ooooooh!!! Poor old Descartes. He thought that cause must be greater than effect. Little did he know that nearly 400 years after his death serious minds would be doubting the very substance of cause and effect. But let's not be complacent. What happened to him could happen to us...

Olly

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3 hours ago, goodricke1 said:

And what has a beginning must have an end, right Jim? ;)

Oh I hope it never does; would be sad if we mastered all the secrets of the Universe. What would be left ?  We would have to watch TV  :) 

Jim 

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3 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

If the mods will excuse me, flat balls are inherently odd.

I'm an intruding literary type in this conversation so my starting point with your students would be, 'What does bang mean?'  I suspect that after three minutes' discussion the conclusion might be, 'Very little.' Any student arguing that it meant, 'Expansion from a single notional point' would be on a hiding to nothing. At this point 🤣 I'd feel in a strrong position to introduce the idea that 'Bang' was not a bad term to describe an event as yet incomprehensible but, within the limits of our present comprehension, real.

Olly

But Olly can't you hear them refuting the Bang - " but  sir , if nobody was there to hear it, how did it make a sound, what did it bang into, where did it bang" . And where is your Descartes now?  So  down yet another rabbit hole they go with the lesson ticking away.  No Olly , I prefer to kill that misconception before it has a chance to breed for breed it will 😈  A curious thing , from observation in teaching - introduce  a student to something that is false , incorrect , or slightly incomplete and they will remember that with far greater efficiency than any subsequent attempt to correct it !   As we say in Scotland "even the dogs in the street know it "   or  perhaps  N'importe quel quidam le sait..  :) 

Jim 

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