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Beginner to astrophotography - is the Celestron EQ Advanced VX 6 too difficult to use as a first scope?


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Hello all, 

I am new to astronomy and am new to this forum, so I hope I can learn lots from the members and also have some of my initial questions answered. Please be kind and patient with me 

I very recently (last week) bought a Celestron AstroFi 102 Mak-Cass after reading some good reviews, but have not been impressed as even with a Starsense Autoalign I have not been able to get the scope to align/calibrate to the stars needed to begin the 'EEA experience' and start to use SkyPortal to goto various planets and stars. BUT....in the short time I have used it I have managed to manually see the moon and take quite a nice photo.....which has got me thinking that perhaps what's really drawing me to astronomy is not just 'observing' but also the astrophotography side too. 

To that end, I have decided on one thing for sure: returning the 102 Mak-Cass and instead investing much more money in getting a very decent upgrade. My choices are exactly as per this post - Celestron Nexstar 6 Evo SCT or Celestron Advanced VX 6 SCT. 

Given I want to do more on the photography side obviously starting with some basic stuff (moon, planets) then progressing to more advanced techniques (deep sky), all the research I have done is pointing me towards the EQ mounted AVX. But I have also read a few articles on the setup that needs to be done each time you use the scope with the EQ mount and that is starting to worry me! Even with a Starsense Align it seems I would have to go through polar alignment each time, and then the star alignment, at the very least.  

I would like to get the thoughts of the kind members here: 

1. do you think the AVX setup is too complicated for someone who is just starting out? I am quite a techy guy so I get tech easily and can learn quick, but I am new to astronomy. 

2. does the Starsense Align make the setup any easier?

3. on the Celestron website they claim the AVX has 'All-Star™ Polar Alignment'. What is this exactly and can I use the SkyPortal app for this (like I could for the star alignment using Starsense Autoalign)? 

4. is the EQ mount suitable for classic goto 'observing' (ie not simply photography)? I would want to use the SkyPortal app so guess I also need the wifi module to add on? 

Really appreciate your thoughts -  thank you! 

 

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The AVX mount is really easy to use.. yes it has the ASPA feature but I didn't find this accurate enough for deepsky astrophography,  it's fine for planetary photography thou..

Yes as with all eq mounts you will have to polar align, with my avx I never bought the polar scope as at the time i was using it mainly for planetary with a 8 inch sct and quite rightly so the shop owner Luigi at f1 telescopes said I didn't need it( ie either point it north or use the ASPA) 

With the avx you can save the star alignment if you hibernate the mount, it then just needs polar aligning and "wake up" the next time you use it.. at worst it just needs sync on a star if it's out..

I bought a starsense for it but that was a big waste of time,celestron was useless ..

If you want to use it for astrophotography a platesolve software( I use APT) really comes into full use.. 

I dont have the AVX now as I traded it plus some money for a cgem a few years back ,  probably the worst mistake ive made, set me back a couple of years as it been nothing but trouble ever since..

Even though I really luv'd my avx, I don't think I'd by another celestron product, everything has a issue, sure their tubes seem to be good but everything else for me has been a big let down..  

So to answer your questions in order..

1.. not it's really easy and has a lot of great features

2... no, waste of time and money

3 ASPA is easy to use but it's not as accurate as sharpcap or polemaster or drift aligning 

4 I have skyportal on my phone but I don't use it much if at all..never used it on any mount, I'd guess that you want to use it to control the mount, point to targets etc? To answer this I'd suggest you learn to learn how to star align accurately,  dont take this the wrong way,  but relying on software has a nasty habit of letting you down right when you need it, learning the basics at least you can overcome problems should they arise if software fails.. to wrap up I'd say that I really enjoyed using my AVX..awesome little mount..

Before you jump in with the 6sct I'd look at fov, if you're looking at imaging nebula etc then the fov will be too narrow,  most targets are huge.. far easier with a 80mm refractor 

 

 

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To answer some of your questions:

Unless you have the mount permanently set up, you will have to polar align each time you set up. But how accurately? For general visual observing or planetary imaging a rough align should suffice, but for long exposure deep space imaging it should be polar aligned as accurately as you can get it.

For the kind of observing and imaging I do, I have regarded polar alignment and equatorial mounts as a nuisance to be avoided if at all possible.  However a solid mount like the AVX should cover all bases in the planetary and deep space long exposure imaging departments. (note that you don't need an EQ for planetary imaging as a Goto alt-az will work just fine).

The Nexstar 6 SCT is a fine instrument for visual observing and planetary imaging, though for the latter you could consider going up a size to the C8.  But you would struggle to use it for deep space imaging, and all the advice points to using a small APO or ED refractor for this.

I have the Starsense attached to my alt-az mounted C8, and have found it a great help in avoiding annoying faff each time I set up.

In short, if you don't want to do deep space imaging you could go with the C6 Evo, but if you do want to do deep space imaging you should think in terms of a heavy EQ mount and a small APO or ED scope.

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18 hours ago, shazstars01 said:

To that end, I have decided on one thing for sure: returning the 102 Mak-Cass and instead investing much more money in getting a very decent upgrade. My choices are exactly as per this post - Celestron Nexstar 6 Evo SCT or Celestron Advanced VX 6 SCT. 

Given I want to do more on the photography side obviously starting with some basic stuff (moon, planets) then progressing to more advanced techniques (deep sky), all the research I have done is pointing me towards the EQ mounted AVX. But I have also read a few articles on the setup that needs to be done each time you use the scope with the EQ mount and that is starting to worry me! Even with a Starsense Align it seems I would have to go through polar alignment each time, and then the star alignment, at the very least.  

I would like to get the thoughts of the kind members here: 

1. do you think the AVX setup is too complicated for someone who is just starting out? I am quite a techy guy so I get tech easily and can learn quick, but I am new to astronomy. 

2. does the Starsense Align make the setup any easier?

3. on the Celestron website they claim the AVX has 'All-Star™ Polar Alignment'. What is this exactly and can I use the SkyPortal app for this (like I could for the star alignment using Starsense Autoalign)? 

4. is the EQ mount suitable for classic goto 'observing' (ie not simply photography)? I would want to use the SkyPortal app so guess I also need the wifi module to add on? 

Really appreciate your thoughts -  thank you! 

 

I've had an AVX mount for nearly a year now, and I bought it as my step back into astronomy having previously owned a fork mounted telescope. It's both easy and pretty quick to set up, especially using Starsense.  If you read around a bit more (especially on here but also Cloudy Nights), you will find the AVX has a bit of a mixed reception, and there will be a number of suggestions to purchase a Skywatcher mount instead for better tracking. As well as Starsense, I also use an Ioptron Ipolar, a small camera that enables accurate polar alignment - both help me get set up quicker. Should you decide to look at Skywatcher mounts, both Starsense (most mounts) and the Ipolar system are available for those as well.

If you want to control the telescope using Skyportal (on a tablet), you will need to get the wi fi adaptor (also called Skyportal). If you have a laptop you will also be able to control the telescope using that - either with the wi fi adaptor or connecting to  the mount via a USB socket on the hand controller. Celestron have software called CPWI for this purpose, but with the AVX you should also get a Celestron branded version of Starry Night, which is planetarium software with Celestron telescope control.

I use mine for both visual observing and (not very good!) astrophotography. If AP is your primary goal, you may want to consider buying the mount and scope separately. I bought my mount with an 8" EdgeHD, but recently bought a Skywatcher 80ED ds-pro. Something like this will give you a much easier introduction to astrophotography and will leave you with cash for some accessories.

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Many thanks for everyone's input so far 😀

Very close to pulling the trigger on the AVX. BUT.... two of the last things on my mind about the AVX mount versus the Nextstar Evo mount (or even the Nextstar SE mount):

1. The size comparison. I have read that the size of the AVX mount + tripod setup is considerably larger than the SE/Evo mount + tripod setup. Has anyone seen any pictures comparing size? I have tried for a while on Google but nothing. Sadly at the moment with lockdown I can't even go to any local scope shops to see in the flesh/check weight etc. 

2. The moving and setup comparison. I have read that it's recommended to not move the AVX mount + scope + tripod (say from my living room to the garden), rather each time it would need to be dismantled and re-assembled. Whereas with the SE or Evo, it's a simple move with scope + mount + tripod all attached. 

 

Grateful for thoughts to the points above 🙏

Thank you again. 

 

 

 

 

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On 09/05/2020 at 17:23, Shimrod said:

I've had an AVX mount for nearly a year now, and I bought it as my step back into astronomy having previously owned a fork mounted telescope. It's both easy and pretty quick to set up, especially using Starsense.  If you read around a bit more (especially on here but also Cloudy Nights), you will find the AVX has a bit of a mixed reception, and there will be a number of suggestions to purchase a Skywatcher mount instead for better tracking. As well as Starsense, I also use an Ioptron Ipolar, a small camera that enables accurate polar alignment - both help me get set up quicker. Should you decide to look at Skywatcher mounts, both Starsense (most mounts) and the Ipolar system are available for those as well.

If you want to control the telescope using Skyportal (on a tablet), you will need to get the wi fi adaptor (also called Skyportal). If you have a laptop you will also be able to control the telescope using that - either with the wi fi adaptor or connecting to  the mount via a USB socket on the hand controller. Celestron have software called CPWI for this purpose, but with the AVX you should also get a Celestron branded version of Starry Night, which is planetarium software with Celestron telescope control.

I use mine for both visual observing and (not very good!) astrophotography. If AP is your primary goal, you may want to consider buying the mount and scope separately. I bought my mount with an 8" EdgeHD, but recently bought a Skywatcher 80ED ds-pro. Something like this will give you a much easier introduction to astrophotography and will leave you with cash for some accessories.

Hi Shimrod, 

Sorry for the completely newbie question, but your point re the ED80 DS-PRO is interesting as I have read on quite a few websites and forums that this is a great scope for observing and imaging, both for planets and deep skies, which has made me very curious to see if perhaps I match the Celestron AFX mount with that scope. If I did this, would all the Skyportal app features using wifi on the mount (eg star align, polar alignment) still be possible? I am assuming so because aren't these features specific to the mount, not the scope? What about my Starsense Autoalign? Would this still be effective and worth keeping to use? I am still in the time period where I can return it I think.

Great to get thoughts!  

🙂

 

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3 hours ago, shazstars01 said:

1. The size comparison. I have read that the size of the AVX mount + tripod setup is considerably larger than the SE/Evo mount + tripod setup. Has anyone seen any pictures comparing size? I have tried for a while on Google but nothing. Sadly at the moment with lockdown I can't even go to any local scope shops to see in the flesh/check weight etc. 

2. The moving and setup comparison. I have read that it's recommended to not move the AVX mount + scope + tripod (say from my living room to the garden), rather each time it would need to be dismantled and re-assembled. Whereas with the SE or Evo, it's a simple move with scope + mount + tripod all attached.

I changed from a fork mounted LX90 to the AVX. I find moving the AVX and setting up a lot easier. I have to set up my telescope each time. I leave the mount attached to the tripod. I then add the the telescope tube (OTA) to the mount and finally the counterweight. I wouldn't try moving an 8" telescope attached to the mount and tripod in one go if you have to lift it. The SE is lighter than the AVX for the same size OTA, but only by 4Kg.

 

1 hour ago, shazstars01 said:

Hi Shimrod, 

Sorry for the completely newbie question, but your point re the ED80 DS-PRO is interesting as I have read on quite a few websites and forums that this is a great scope for observing and imaging, both for planets and deep skies, which has made me very curious to see if perhaps I match the Celestron AFX mount with that scope. If I did this, would all the Skyportal app features using wifi on the mount (eg star align, polar alignment) still be possible? I am assuming so because aren't these features specific to the mount, not the scope? What about my Starsense Autoalign? Would this still be effective and worth keeping to use? I am still in the time period where I can return it I think.

Great to get thoughts!  

🙂

 

If by starsense auto align you mean one of these  -  Starsense then it will work with most Celestron mounts including the AVX. The mount is independent of the the OTA you choose to use - so all the features of Skyportal would still be available. The 80ED ds prod is also small and light enough to hold and place on the mount with one hand which isn't the case with an 8" OTA - so makes setup a big easier and quicker.

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The AVX is a fine mount for getting started with astrophotography and I personally found that with ASPA I could get well enough aligned for 10 minute exposures. You have to be careful and a reticulated eyepiece (ie, with crosshairs) is a big help. The SCT on the other hand ... ? SCTs have long focal lengths and narrow fields of view which makes everything more challenging. Focusing, guiding, aligning, etc. : that long focal length will add substantially to the difficulty and the precision required. Consider getting the mount and separately getting a short, fast refractor, in the 60-100mm aperture range. You’ll get great pictures, learn a lot and suffer a lot less frustration (note that I didn’t say no frustration 😉 ). 

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18 minutes ago, Shimrod said:

I changed from a fork mounted LX90 to the AVX. I find moving the AVX and setting up a lot easier. I have to set up my telescope each time. I leave the mount attached to the tripod. I then add the the telescope tube (OTA) to the mount and finally the counterweight. I wouldn't try moving an 8" telescope attached to the mount and tripod in one go if you have to lift it. The SE is lighter than the AVX for the same size OTA, but only by 4Kg.

 

If by starsense auto align you mean one of these  -  Starsense then it will work with most Celestron mounts including the AVX. The mount is independent of the the OTA you choose to use - so all the features of Skyportal would still be available. The 80ED ds prod is also small and light enough to hold and place on the mount with one hand which isn't the case with an 8" OTA - so makes setup a big easier and quicker.

So the Starsense Autoalign (yes the link was correct you shared) would fit onto the top of the Skywatcher 80ED DS (if I chose to buy this), as it would do on top of a Celestron OTA?

Interested to hear your thoughts on the pros and cons of the Edge 8 OTA versus your Skywatcher, and in particular if you don't mind expanding a little on your comment in post further above that 'something like this (ED-80) will give you a much easier introduction to astrophotography'.

Thanks again 🙏 

 

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8 hours ago, shazstars01 said:

So the Starsense Autoalign (yes the link was correct you shared) would fit onto the top of the Skywatcher 80ED DS (if I chose to buy this), as it would do on top of a Celestron OTA?

Interested to hear your thoughts on the pros and cons of the Edge 8 OTA versus your Skywatcher, and in particular if you don't mind expanding a little on your comment in post further above that 'something like this (ED-80) will give you a much easier introduction to astrophotography'.

Thanks again 🙏 

 

The Starsense comes with two brackets - one which fits onto the finder mount of the Skywatcher 80ed focuser. If you want both the finder and the starsense mounted, you will need to buy an adaptor as the focuser has only one mounting position.

I think Joel has covered the main differences between the EdgeHD 8 and the 80ed ds pro - for focusing, on the Edge (2m focal length), slight interactions with the OTA (such as focusing) will introduce a small amount of wobble and you have to wait for that to settle down to see if you have your image in focus.

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9 hours ago, Joel Shepherd said:

The AVX is a fine mount for getting started with astrophotography and I personally found that with ASPA I could get well enough aligned for 10 minute exposures. You have to be careful and a reticulated eyepiece (ie, with crosshairs) is a big help. The SCT on the other hand ... ? SCTs have long focal lengths and narrow fields of view which makes everything more challenging. Focusing, guiding, aligning, etc. : that long focal length will add substantially to the difficulty and the precision required. Consider getting the mount and separately getting a short, fast refractor, in the 60-100mm aperture range. You’ll get great pictures, learn a lot and suffer a lot less frustration (note that I didn’t say no frustration 😉 ). 

Thanks Joel, very helpful. 

Would you also recommend this sort of fast refractor (say an ED80 DS Pro) for planetary imaging (plus sun, moon) in your experience? Has that worked well for you? 

PS. Some great shots on your Astrobin 😀

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Good advice from Skipper Billy. However, I use an AVX and love it. Starsense is a waste of time IMO and ASPA will work but takes time. Polemaster is brilliant. All my imaging is done using the AVX.

Peter

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25 minutes ago, Skipper Billy said:

To be honest the biggest step forward in your understanding of the way forward before you spend any money is to get this book and read it twice 😉 

It will save you a lot of money and grief.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html

@shazstars01 I'd also suggest there is no need to rush into a purchase. The nights are getting very short now - with the constraints of work I can't stay up for long after dark so will be packing my telescope away in the next week or so and probably won't appear again until the end of August.

18 minutes ago, PeterCPC said:

Good advice from Skipper Billy. However, I use an AVX and love it. Starsense is a waste of time IMO and ASPA will work but takes time. Polemaster is brilliant. All my imaging is done using the AVX.

Peter

Starsense seems to have a bit of a marmite response! I think mine's great and it reduces the time to get set up. I polar align with the ipolar, then leave Starsense to do the alignment while I am fetching other bits from the house.

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15 hours ago, shazstars01 said:

1. The size comparison. I have read that the size of the AVX mount + tripod setup is considerably larger than the SE/Evo mount + tripod setup. Has anyone seen any pictures comparing size? I have tried for a while on Google but nothing. Sadly at the moment with lockdown I can't even go to any local scope shops to see in the flesh/check weight etc. 

2. The moving and setup comparison. I have read that it's recommended to not move the AVX mount + scope + tripod (say from my living room to the garden), rather each time it would need to be dismantled and re-assembled. Whereas with the SE or Evo, it's a simple move with scope + mount + tripod all attached. 

I'm not sure what you mean by 'size'. Fully extended the AVX will take up a fair amount of space. But if you check the spec you will see that the AVX is pretty heavy and I imagine to get it indoors you would at least take off the OTA, take off the spreader tray, take off the 11lb counterweight, fold in the tripod legs and lug its 46lb weight indoors. Propped against a wall it will not be taking up much floor space.

I would not like to move a fully assembled AVX + scope even a couple of feet.  As well as being really heavy it will have stuff up top that might swing around and whack you or get damaged. Only sensible if you can get it on wheels as a few other people have done with heavy setups, and have a clear run to a garage. The leg spread will be too wide to get through a standard door.

 

15 hours ago, shazstars01 said:

1. The size comparison. I have read that the size of the AVX mount + tripod setup is considerably larger than the SE/Evo mount + tripod setup. Has anyone seen any pictures comparing size? I have tried for a while on Google but nothing. Sadly at the moment with lockdown I can't even go to any local scope shops to see in the flesh/check weight etc. 

2. The moving and setup comparison. I have read that it's recommended to not move the AVX mount + scope + tripod (say from my living room to the garden), rather each time it would need to be dismantled and re-assembled. Whereas with the SE or Evo, it's a simple move with scope + mount + tripod all attached. 

 

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6 hours ago, shazstars01 said:

Thanks Joel, very helpful. 

Would you also recommend this sort of fast refractor (say an ED80 DS Pro) for planetary imaging (plus sun, moon) in your experience? Has that worked well for you? 

PS. Some great shots on your Astrobin 😀

Thanks! One of the many challenging things about astrophotography is that planetary/lunar imaging and deep space imaging (nebula, galaxies, clusters, etc.) are different ballgames. Planets are small, bright, rotate quickly and are sensitive to seeing conditions, so you need long focal length and lots of short exposures. Deep space things are big, dim, slow moving and a little less impacted by poor seeing, so you need smaller numbers of longer exposures. From that perspective, an SCT will work better on planets than a fast refractor because of its much higher focal length, if you use an appropriate camera, etc. But, if you decide to move on to deep space, the SCT will make life harder. An ED80 won't produce very good results for planetary -- it just can't get "close" enough" -- but will happily manage deep space and lunar. Solar photography is another ballgame and I don't have enough experience with it to recommend anything. I will say that the reason I went with deep space instead of planetary was because deep space stuff is always there, whereas planetary is a little more hit or miss. E.g., from here (Seattle), Jupiter and Saturn have been pretty much out of sight for a year or so, especially compared to 4-5 years ago when they were located high in the mid-evening sky. On the other hand, the Veil is reliably up high every summer night. 🙂    Have fun!

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If you're planning on doing any sort of astrophotography  then get the AVX over the SE or any sort of azimuth mount..

Also the ioptron cem range is worth a look...but as with any mount depends what you want to put on top, now and in the future

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