Colmination issues stopping me from buying.

[col]

Hi guys,

I'm thinking about getting some 25x100 binoculars and possibly a parallelogram mount and the only thing that's stopping me is this.

Researching  has turned up worries of receiving binoculars with the colmination out and then having the disappointment of sending back etc. So I'm wondering about brands that minimise this problem or solves it.

After being put off the celestron range because of reading about the high probability of receiving them with this problem,I'm now looking at the Helios range.

Any advice on this issue is most welcome as I'm  not wanting to order then regret it.

many thanks .

 

[PeterCPC]

I had some Celestron 15X70 binos and they went out of collimation. I was able to adjust them in about 10 mins. Providing the binos allow for recollimation I wouldn't be too worried about it.

Peter

[col]

Hi Peter thanks for the speedy reply.

That's what I'm wanting to avoid, as I don't know how to colminate so I'm not confident tinkering with them and would need sending back, so would rather buy a more robust binocular.

[Scoobs767]

I bought the Meade 15 x 70 "astro" binoculars, and they appear to be collimated to my eye.   Has anyone else bought these?

[PeterCPC]

1 hour ago, col said:

Hi Peter thanks for the speedy reply.

That's what I'm wanting to avoid, as I don't know how to colminate so I'm not confident tinkering with them and would need sending back, so would rather buy a more robust binocular.

It's really not difficult. There is a screw to adjust the prisms - you just keep checking until both eyepiece images match up. If I can do it anyone can.

Peter

[Skipper Billy]

I bought these http://www.strathspey.co.uk/shop/25x100.html and after many years of use they needed recollimating - I contacted the company (who offered to recollimate them for free) but after a chat about my astro interests and confirming that I was not a complete numpty they emailed me a PDF showing exactly where the screws were and how to collimate them - it took all of 5 mins to reach accurate collimation and 2 of those minutes was spent looking for a tiny wee screwdriver!

It isn't difficult 😉 

[PeterW]

Buy from a company that checks them before they go out. The more high quality models should all come collimated and stay that way unless you whack them hard. Whilst you can “collimate” them yourself, this will only be true for your eyes and your eye spacing, making them possibly less collimated for others. To FULLY collimate bins requires a specialist rig, don’t worry there are people in the UK who can repair/clean and recollimate bins. The costs are reasonable, but probably not cost effective for the cheapest models. Look at Binocular sky’s reviews for good quality models and treat them well and you’ve nothing to worry about.

Peter

[col]

Thanks for the replies guys,. 

Iv looked at how to collimate and see that the makeshift way is simple enough like you say, though I'd still prefer to not need to do that, and if it was needed id get it professionally done. 

So any recommendations on which binoculars and suppliers to go with would help me make my mind up. 

I intend to get the giant parallelogram tripod too, as this is going to be my main use for looking up. So good quality binoculars are what I'm looking for roundabout 3 or 400 pounds. 

So if anyone one with experience of this range could help me decide that would be great. 

Many thianks all. 

[col]

Iv decided to get some cheaper 20x80 binoculars for now. At least until I can go to a dealer in person. Then I don't have to worry about heavy handed shipping or even receiving a faulty set. 

Thanks guys. 

[col]

My 20x80 binoculars turned up this morning from First light optics. And wow, the packaging was the best iv seen for safe transport. Shipped yesterday and arrived this morning, tracking was the best iv come across also. 

Iv already put my binoculars on to my tripod and adjusted focus and diopter accordingly. 

The views in daytime are fantastic and I can't wait to try them tonight with hopefully a not too cloudy sky. 

[col]

[PeterCPC]

Nice binos! 👍

Peter

[col]

Thanks Peter I'm very happy with them. Not only is the view crisp and clear, but I'm also very happy with the look and feel of them. Tonight can't come soon enough. 

[Stormbringer]

good viewing 🍻

[col]

Thanks Stormbringer. 

[col]

Iv been outside with my new binos and targeted venus, and wow I'm so pleased with these. I was seeing a smaller crescent moon, it was so easy to see the crescent of venus with these. 

I'm very impressed, now I'm waiting for dark so I can check out some other targets. 

[col]

Unfortunately the clouds have roled in. But going on my view of venus I'm already planning on my next clear night. 

A P, mount is a must though as my camera tripod isn't really tall enough. But anything low in the sky, like venus was earlier, is great. 

[Scoobs767]

Definitely recommend a P-mount.  My bino observing has been transformed using a Paragon mount, albeit with my own mod that makes the up-down action more fluid and stable.

[col]

I was looking at the Paragon mount as it's half the price of the giant one. But I was sceptical with reading it didn't have the same movement at the binocular mount. 

How have you found it Scoobs? And mine need to connect with the bar on the centre tube of the binos and not the front hinge, which put me off too. I'm also wondering if the Paragon mount without tripod can attatch to my eq3 tripod legs.? 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by col

[Scoobs767]

So I'd say it's a decent mount but might need some mods by the owner to achieve its full potential. 

In my view a parallelogram has the following benefits over a regular photo tripod. 1) it puts the binos at a distance from the central pole making it easier to sit underneath and observe objects at high altitude, 2) it provides a smooth ('knobless') action to adjust the vertical position (which is needed together with an altitude change to observe a higher object) - this replaces the crank shaft in a phototripod, 3) useful in outreach to show the same thing to people of different heights.  For me the worst aspect of the mount was the altitude adjustment which is just controlled by a single knob you have to tighten each time you change the altitude.  This knob actually split soon after I bought it!   I had to buy a replacement knob off ebay (which is actually much better).  There is no weight balance on that axis so if the friction is not enough, the binos might flop over one way or the other.  I think on the more expensive mounts, the axis of rotation goes through the bino CoG (since the binos are held at 90 degree to the parallelogram, rather than point along the axis as in the Paragon), so it acts as its own counterweight, but thats not possible on the Paragon.  This need to untighten and retighten really bugged me, and it didn't give me the "buttery" smooth action looking up and down I wanted.  

So what I did was to mod the altitude axis by pushing back the L-bracket so the bino CoG is further from the rotation axis, and then on the other side of the axis I balance this with a small 1kg counterweight.  I use a 10 inch "bar" (actually made by attaching together a metal bracket and an old Orion SLT camera mount, but this could be simplified by using a single bar) to attach the L-bracket and the counterweight shaft.  The bar is screwed securely to the original L-bracket attachment but at an angle so that the weight and binos are offset sightly from the long axis of the parallelogram - this allows the counterweight to move down without hitting the mount.  The L-bracket attachment is adjustable so the binos still look down the axis of the p-gram. The CW and the binos give approx. the same moment around this axis which reduces greatly the knob friction needed to hold position. With a small amount of tightening of the altitude knob this allows for a "knobless" buttery smooth altitude action, that greatly improved the performance of the mount for me.   In addition, the L-bracket is free to move around on its attachment, which gives an additional movement axis - a micro-longitude adjustment.  I've had to add a small additional counterweight to the main one to balance this, but it seems to work well.

There are other mods people have used such as pistol grips etc, if you look around on here and cloudynights. 

For your tripod, I faced the same dilemma.  I had an AVX tripod and wanted to use that.  Problem is the AVX used M10 coarse screw (I think) and the mount used either 1/4 or 3/8" screw holes (as per photographic tripods).  So there is a major mismatch of thread conventions.  I managed to fashion an adapter from an M10 nut and an adapter I found on ebay that I've wedged into it (it was designed for M10 fine of course!).  I also use a plastic spacer underneath on the main shaft.  So it can be done but not straightforward!    The alternative is just to replace the central crank shaft with a long 3/8" screw that will fit directly into the mount base.   However, I think using the AVX tripod (which has 2 inch legs) was a good move since it is designed to hold a much more massive mount, I don't notice any real vibrations or settling time needed for the binos.  

For your bino connection if you do a mod yourself you can just add an attachment to the bottom of your bar, or if you stay with the original design Orion actually make an attachment.  https://uk.telescope.com/Telescopes/Orion-Binocular-Mount-Adapter/rc/1306/p/115935.uts

 

 

 

[Scoobs767]

Also for your tripod I'd check that the mount could sit on it without hitting the azimuth knob you've got there.  

[col]

Thanks for that Scoobs. Have you got some pics. 

Looking at the bino mount on the parallelogram I was thinking if it could be bent to attatch to the binoculars mount post? 

I'm thinking of getting the tripod with it to keep it simple. 

And where does that plate attatch, that's for sale as an extra with the p mount, to attatch the binocular pillar mount to? 

Sorry about all the questions, I'm just trying to see it in my mind before ordering it. 

 

[col]

Iv been looking at the farpoint p mount too, what's your thoughts on those guys? And would they just screw onto my tripod in the pic? 

[Scoobs767]

Hello Col,

Here are some pics.  Not perfect set up by any means but it works. The L-bracket holding the binos is free to move on the furthest out knob giving it a micro-azimuth action.  The centre knob does not allow movement and secures the long bar to the original attachment for the L-bracket, offset at an angle as shown.   There are some bits of foam and padding for protection incase things swing about before everything is tightened up and balanced.  

If you are referring to the L-bracket I don't think that can be bent easily as it is too thick.  The Orion accessory I think sits where the L-bracket would have, so you would have to unscrew the L-bracket and replace it with that attachment.

To be honest I don't know if the Farpoint mount will screw into your tripod, but mounts like those have an advantage in that the binos are mounted at the side of the parallelogram and this allows for better balance in all axes.  Also some people like them because you can get a chair completely underneath since the tripod is at your side.   

[col]

Thanks for that Scoobs, that makes it clearer for me.