Observing sites in Fife

[WatcherF]

New to the hobby, I'm looking for some reasonable sites to observe around Fife, Scotland once lockdown ends. I've seen that Loch Leven RSPB centre is used by local clubs so I guess anywhere around there that isn't obstructed would be good. Equally, East Lomond has been mentioned and is relatively high up.  Does anyone have any other favourite sites that they would recommend.

My scope is a Celestron 130EQ and I'm happy to lug it a few hundred meters from the car if necessary.

[azrabella]

Either East or West Lomond are good dark sites. I prefer east as it's easier to access. Just head for Falkland.

[WatcherF]

Cool, cheers. I'll take a look once we are allowed.

[Pixies]

Interested here, too. I'm often in Fife, but based in Edinburgh, so East Lothian would be my main patch.

Again, I'm just starting out on this too. Watcher - I hope you don't take this as a thread hijack.

What's the recommendations about hitting the great outdoors with your gear? Any recommendations about what to look for, as a good site? I would assume there are known locations that are suitable, far away from nearby roads but safe to hang around with a lot of pricey equipment. Do you all have secret spots that you need a special handshake to find out about?

I have visions of being clobbered by a gamekeeper!

[WatcherF]

Hi Pixies,

I work in Edinburgh (when I'm allowed to go to work, that is). I've just been googling to try and find sites. Not many of them around in Scotland it seems unless you go up north)  but I've just gone with 'less light pollution than where I live' . I also thought about height and field of view. Obviously if i can find somewhere with 360 degrees down close to the horizon thats got to be worth a look.

That said, the southern sky will always be a bit polluted by Edinburgh,. I guess

I guess until we get out there we won't really know the difference.

The other thing I thought of was distance from parking. I'd be ok lugging kit a fair way as I spend a bit of time wild camping so im used to carrying weight over distance but i appreciate this might not be the case for many. 

If you do happen to be in Fife after lockdown and fancy an evening viewing, the two sites I mentioned at the beginning of the post were both identified via local groups. I also know those areas quite well and can see why they have been suggested.

Maybe I'll see you there.

[Pixies]

Hi Watcher,

 

Sounds good. I'm pulling the trigger and buying a 'scope tomorrow (Bresser Messier 8" Dob). I might take you up on teh offer once lockdown ends - whenever that is. I have an old campervan so can travel OK (and carry the 'scope). BTW - sorry for the clouds about to arrive for the next week!

Nearer me, I always thought the Lammermuirs might have some suitable places.

[WatcherF]

3 minutes ago, Pixies said:

Hi Watcher,

 

Sounds good. I'm pulling the trigger and buying a 'scope tomorrow (Bresser Messier 8" Dob). I might take you up on teh offer once lockdown ends - whenever that is. I have an old campervan so can travel OK (and carry the 'scope). BTW - sorry for the clouds about to arrive for the next week!

Nearer me, I always thought the Lammermuirs might have some suitable places.

You're apologising for the weather? This suggests it's your fault, in which case, just get it sorted will you!🤣

[Buyer]

Hi Watcher, did you get a chance to get up east lomond? I have same scope and was wondering how you found the seeing from there?

[Pixies]

12 minutes ago, Buyer said:

Hi Watcher, did you get a chance to get up east lomond? I have same scope and was wondering how you found the seeing from there?

Hi.

Looks like @WatcherFhasn't been around for a few months.

[Buyer]

That's a shame. Oh well, will just need to find out for myself now 👍

[Ships and Stars]

Edit - I see this was an old post that recently got resurrected! Anyway, maybe it's helpful for Edinburgh folks etc....

I'm not down that way a lot, but Fife itself looks like E coast is by far the best up past Anstruther, but I do like a bit of elevation to keep the dew and mist off as it settles, plus it tends to be that much clearer with a little high ground.

Beyond Fife if you want really dark skies some day, Kielder to the south and to the north, anywhere past Stirling or Perth just gets better and better.

I like anything over 21.00-21.15 SQM real-time if it's close to home. Over 21.5 with a SQM-L meter, and game on! Over 21.75, nirvana. 

If you use it, take the LP map with a grain of salt - it's pretty optimistic. Supposed to be 20.8 at home and it's more like 19.8-20.2 if all the local lights are off. If the map says 21.5 then it's probably closer to 21.00 unless conditions are really good, i.e. low humidity, no cloud at all, esp high cloud/haze which is hard to spot at first.

Am sure you'll weed out some nice spots! 👍

Edited September 22, 2020 by Ships and Stars

[Barry-W-Fenner]

39 minutes ago, Ships and Stars said:

Edit - I see this was an old post that recently got resurrected! Anyway, maybe it's helpful for Edinburgh folks etc....

I'm not down that way a lot, but Fife itself looks like E coast is by far the best up past Anstruther, but I do like a bit of elevation to keep the dew and mist off as it settles, plus it tends to be that much clearer with a little high ground.

Beyond Fife if you want really dark skies some day, Kielder to the south and to the north, anywhere past Stirling or Perth just gets better and better.

I like anything over 21.00-21.15 SQM real-time if it's close to home. Over 21.5 with a SQM-L meter, and game on! Over 21.75, nirvana. 

If you use it, take the LP map with a grain of salt - it's pretty optimistic. Supposed to be 20.8 at home and it's more like 19.8-20.2 if all the local lights are off. If the map says 21.5 then it's probably closer to 21.00 unless conditions are really good, i.e. low humidity, no cloud at all, esp high cloud/haze which is hard to spot at first.

Am sure you'll weed out some nice spots! 👍

There is some very dark looking skies to the North West! Do you ever get out that way SAS? I was in a bortle 3 location a few weeks ago and the sky was spectacular comparied to my usual bortle 6. Seeing the Milky Way was amazing. I cant imagine how good a bortle 2 or 1 would be!

Out of interest, is there much of a difference in sky quality between say a 21.5 & 21.75  reading? It seems a small increment, I am interested to know what impact that has on sky quality.

 

baz

[Ships and Stars]

1 hour ago, Barry-W-Fenner said:

There is some very dark looking skies to the North West! Do you ever get out that way SAS? I was in a bortle 3 location a few weeks ago and the sky was spectacular comparied to my usual bortle 6. Seeing the Milky Way was amazing. I cant imagine how good a bortle 2 or 1 would be!

Out of interest, is there much of a difference in sky quality between say a 21.5 & 21.75  reading? It seems a small increment, I am interested to know what impact that has on sky quality.

 

baz

I'd love to go up past Inverness up to Sutherland or back to the Hebrides for astronomy. I was over to Lewis for work earlier this year, but didn't take a scope (was snowing anyway!). Loads of places over 21.9 towards Ullapool. Just tons.

Regarding 21.5 vs 21.75 - if I'm not mistaken, a 21.00 sky is ten times darker than a 20.00 sky, but I need to check that - any thoughts @jetstream? I think the scale is logarithmic, not linear but I'm no maths expert! If that's right the extra .25 would definitely be noticeable. Bortle 3 can be good though, I've seen the horsehead with a 12" dob under B3 - just.

Don't think most astronomers need super-dark skies to be happy, though it's certainly nice! A 21.5 sky is pretty good, don't think you'll be upset with that. A 21.75 sky will still show that much more, and will probably have minimal light pollution down to the horizon, as these places are far away from cities, though I can easily see urban glow low on the horizon 60-70 miles away from my fav spot. 

My best reading was a 21.85 from a spot I thought had better conditions on previous visits before I bought the SQM-L. So probably a solid 21.90 or more on an exceptional winter night when the air holds very little humidity. At that site the milky way stretches from horizon to horizon and it was hard for me at first to find constellations because there were so many bright stars. The milky way will light up the ground once your eyes are adapted and you can easily walk around without a torch. Any clouds show up in the sky as looming black voids because there is no light pollution bouncing off from underneath! The first time I saw clouds under really dark skies with good dark adaptation, I thought it was billowing smoke because they were black as ink compared to the sky.

Anyway, 21.5 is nothing to sneeze at, you can see a lot and I'd almost give up darker skies once or twice a year if I could have 21.5 once a week! Almost...

I'd say 21.15 and up with good transparency will give reasonably good views. Over 21.4 or 21.5 then it's probably going to be a memorable night unless you already live someplace like this! (not me unfortunately)

Edited September 22, 2020 by Ships and Stars

[jetstream]

1 hour ago, Ships and Stars said:

 A 21.5 sky is pretty good,

Every little bit past this really matters IMHO, but at the 21.5 level and up transparency takes over. I'll take a truly transparent 21.5 sky anyday over a less transparent 21.8...

Right now my skies can be the best for here- no snow and very good transparency at times. Thing is snow and all in a high pressure -30c after a snowstorm is hard to beat.

Just go by the Milky Way- transparent dark skies give it a jagged look. In truly good conditions the look of the Milky Way makes us ignore our telescopes...

Edited September 22, 2020 by jetstream

[Ships and Stars]

6 minutes ago, jetstream said:

Every little bit past this really matters IMHO, but at the 21.5 level and up transparency takes over. I'll take a truly transparent 21.5 sky anyday over a less transparent 21.8...

Very good point actually. I've been receiving a largely unwanted crash course in transparency, or lack thereof, lately. We had five or six clear, really promising nights around this last new moon - unbelievable I thought! In reality we had stars but terrible transparency except maybe one or two so-so average nights. Did have a very brief 21.6-21.65 session with the Veil and the 12" dob which was impressive and fairly transparent, but it was short-lived and I drove a ridiculous distance for 25 minutes on the scope before I had to turn around and go home! 

Had the 20" set up at the 21.92 site for two nights in a row and could see lots of stars...sort of...through the haze. That was beyond frustrating.

Hoping colder weather picks things up in that department, perhaps unusually humid here at the moment...

Thanks Gerry!

 

 

[Pixies]

Just now, Ships and Stars said:

Very good point actually. I've been receiving a largely unwanted crash course in transparency, or lack thereof, lately. We had five or six clear, really promising nights around this last new moon - unbelievable I thought! In reality we had stars but terrible transparency except maybe one or two so-so average nights. Did have a very brief 21.6-21.65 session with the Veil and the 12" dob which was impressive and fairly transparent, but it was short-lived and I drove a ridiculous distance for 25 minutes on the scope before I had to turn around and go home! 

Had the 20" set up at the 21.92 site for two nights in a row and could see lots of stars...sort of...through the haze. That was beyond frustrating.

Hoping colder weather picks things up in that department, perhaps unusually humid here at the moment...

Thanks Gerry!

 

 

But I think  these conditions are tied in with the great seeing we've been having. Planetary viewing conditions - and that's bourne out with the reports of fantastic Martian detail and some amazing images, recently.

[Ships and Stars]

3 minutes ago, Pixies said:

But I think  these conditions are tied in with the great seeing we've been having. Planetary viewing conditions - and that's bourne out with the reports of fantastic Martian detail and some amazing images, recently.

I've been looking at the wrong objects! Should have dialled in max magnification and gone for Mars! Hate missing the Veil when it's high up though. 

I think you're right about the conditions - I've heard others says when seeing is good, transparency might take a dip, and vice versa. Rare I understand to have both at the same time.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Ships and Stars