StarTools Please Help

[spillage]

Might I suggest that adding more light and dithering will massively improve any cmos image. As you are using a colour camera you will find you will need an extra amount due to lost R G data. Your stars look great so tracking is good. Not sure what software you are using for capturing your targets but using plate solving will get you back to the same target easily on another night and reduce any alignment issues when all stacked together. But well done so far.

Cheers,

[Simon Dunsmore]

Hi

Thanks for your help. I don't know how much I appreciate it. 

So, to be clear I took the darks at the same time as the lights. Same ISO and exposure. 

I stacked these, along with bias. 

Are you suggesting that I don't use the darks? I need to read into dithering and algorithms. Not too sure what that means. 

Thanks for your help 

Simon 

[Simon Dunsmore]

2 minutes ago, spillage said:

Might I suggest that adding more light and dithering will massively improve any cmos image. As you are using a colour camera you will find you will need an extra amount due to lost R G data. Your stars look great so tracking is good. Not sure what software you are using for capturing your targets but using plate solving will get you back to the same target easily on another night and reduce any alignment issues when all stacked together. But well done so far.

Cheers,

Hi, Thanks for your message. I'm actually using a Dslr Canon 60d. Can you please could you point me to a good reference for plate solving and dithering. 

I was just pleased to be able to locate the targets and get them in shot. 

Thanks again 

Simon 

[alacant]

16 minutes ago, Simon Dunsmore said:

Can you please could you point me to a good reference

Hi

It's difficult to recommend; we don't know what software you're using. Does it for example include a dark optimisation algorithm? Are you guiding your mount?

Cheers

[spillage]

You will need to have a laptop or pc controlling your mount. The best starting point then would be to use astro photography tool (APT). This will control all your kit and allow you to run platesolve (called pointsolve in apt). I can take a bit of setting up but I know there is a guide on here for it. You can then do things like load an older image and the software works out the coordinates for the image and can then move your mount to the same position within pixels.

The software is essentially free and will do all you need in the trial version that never runs out but a very small fee unlocks it all and give the developer more money towards improvements. The support is great with quick help and the dev is also a member on this forum.

I went ages without using it and now would not be without it.

[Simon Dunsmore]

9 minutes ago, spillage said:

You will need to have a laptop or pc controlling your mount. The best starting point then would be to use astro photography tool (APT). This will control all your kit and allow you to run platesolve (called pointsolve in apt). I can take a bit of setting up but I know there is a guide on here for it. You can then do things like load an older image and the software works out the coordinates for the image and can then move your mount to the same position within pixels.

The software is essentially free and will do all you need in the trial version that never runs out but a very small fee unlocks it all and give the developer more money towards improvements. The support is great with quick help and the dev is also a member on this forum.

I went ages without using it and now would not be without it.

Thanks I'll take a look. Right now I just capture the image on a laptop using EOS utilities. I than stack with star stacker and edit with startools. 

Quick question, can I adjust images in startools to adjust the contrast etc? 

Thanks again, you folks are life savers 

[spillage]

Yes you there is a contrast option within startools but I also find that a manual dev/stretch helps keep things in check and increasing the gamma might help.

Are you able to connect your mount to your laptop?

[Simon Dunsmore]

31 minutes ago, spillage said:

Yes you there is a contrast option within startools but I also find that a manual dev/stretch helps keep things in check and increasing the gamma might help.

Are you able to connect your mount to your laptop?

OK thanks. Yes, I can operate the mount through Stellarium although right now I'm just using the handset and the laptop for polar alignment. 

Should I try this again removing the darks? The thing I really want to do is get a handle on the processing. 

Not having much photographic knowledge, the terms and heading don't really mean much just yet

Edited April 25, 2020 by Simon Dunsmore
Error

[happy-kat]

The tips being suggested will help with the quality of the data acquisition which is turn helps with the processing.

[alacant]

1 hour ago, Simon Dunsmore said:

Should I try this again removing the darks?

What do you use to stack the dark frames?

Maybe a good idea to send us a list of your software and the stages you use to stack images, otherwise we're guessing.

cheers

Edited April 25, 2020 by alacant

[Simon Dunsmore]

2 hours ago, alacant said:

What do you use to stack the dark frames?

Maybe a good idea to send us a list of your software and the stages you use to stack images, otherwise we're guessing.

cheers

Hi Alacant, 

Thanks again for all your time and help. 

OK, so I'm using Deep Sky Stacker 64bit version 4.2.3

Star Tools (full license) 1.5.369 MR3

Canon EOS 60d

Skywatcher 72ed

Heq5 mount

Polar alignment with Sharpcap 3.2

Guidescope Evoguide 50ed

Guide Camera Qhy 5II.(although I have not attempted guiding just yet. 

The last image  (Bhodes Nebula) was taken at ISO1600 20x45 seconds

Darks taken directly after lights, again ISO 1600, 20x 45 seconds

Bias frames x20

I sellected the Raw images from the camera and put them in individual folders, lights, darks, bias. I then sellected each set of images (after checking the lights for faults, satellites, aircraft etc) 

Next, I stack these setting white balance to auto. 

I then import the image into Star Tools. And follow the advice previously given. Would be great if we could do a screen share! 

Thanks! 

Simon 

Edited April 25, 2020 by Simon Dunsmore
Error

[spillage]

I would download and have a look at apt. This will also allow you to dither your shots and should therefore do away with the need for darks.

Dither is when the mount is moved a fraction after a set amount of shots and when these are stacked in DeepSkyStacker it is then able to remove a build up of background noise.

I cannot remember the best setting to be used in DSS for a canon camera but sure others here can help with that. DSS should also be able to deal with satellite trails in the light. Just run the register and then check the quality number given and remove the low ones if needed.

Its is really worth trying with guiding as it will help you to get good clean data and the cleaner it is to start with the easier the processing becomes. 

[happy-kat]

Startools, the 1.6 version is worth looking at as makes real use of turning off white balance in DSS and getting the real linear data. DDS in settings make sure to select no white balance then the rest of usual options like no rgb alignment.

Startools, load as linear and not white balanced.

There are differences in 1.6 flavour but they are really worth it.

[alacant]

Ok. Lose the darks and restack.  Post the link.

A few thoughts.

In fact for such a short exposure time, this is remarkably good.

The best Iso for the 60d is 800 so there's some unnecessary extra noise at 1600.

The more frames you can get, the easier the processing will become. 

The sooner you can guide and dither, the easier the processing will become.

Make sure that no white balance is selected in dss; when StarTools says linear, it means linear.

Cheers

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by alacant

[alacant]

1 hour ago, happy-kat said:

There are differences in 1.6 flavour but they are really worth it.

+1.

If you don't have the latest release candidate, upgrade before trying again. 

Cheers

[Simon Dunsmore]

On 25/04/2020 at 14:04, spillage said:

You will need to have a laptop or pc controlling your mount. The best starting point then would be to use astro photography tool (APT). This will control all your kit and allow you to run platesolve (called pointsolve in apt). I can take a bit of setting up but I know there is a guide on here for it. You can then do things like load an older image and the software works out the coordinates for the image and can then move your mount to the same position within pixels.

The software is essentially free and will do all you need in the trial version that never runs out but a very small fee unlocks it all and give the developer more money towards improvements. The support is great with quick help and the dev is also a member on this forum.

I went ages without using it and now would not be without it.

Hi Spillage, 

Sorry, back with a few more questions. I have taken a look at APT, looks ideal. I'll download the trial version first to see how I get on. I

Can I ask, will this drive my guide camera as well as provide the dithering function or do I need separate software for this. Right now my laptop has Starcap installed (I use this to polar align) If I use Starcap for guiding will the two programs be compatible? 

I'm slowly reading through the APT user manual but there is a lot to digest and it all seems a little confusing. 

Thanks for your help 

Kind regards 

Simon 

[spillage]

Hi Simon,

Okay no problem.

Guiding

This needs to be done via PHD2. But PHD2 needs to be chosen in APT. I am sure when you  start the imaging run it will auto start PHD2 and auto select a star for you.

Dithering

You have a dithering setting in PHD2 and a setting in APT. In APT you also need to set up how often you dither (every frame or every x frame).

I have not used the latest version of APT and it has been a while since I used it. Any tab with a * can have options opened by holding shift and right clicking.

Click on the gear tab and then shift click on guide. The box that opens will give your dithering options and the drop down list for your guiding program.

Click on Camera and then shift click on connect and you can choose your imaging camera. Same with the Gear tab to choose your mount, filter wheel etc.

In the Gear tab click on Point Craft in this page click settings (bottom right) and in here you can download the two programs needed (remember where they install, I think one runs from the folder) point to the programs and there are a few boxes that might need filling in and you should be able to start using objects from the list.

Remember that the trial version never runs out and will really do all you need it to.

Just install it and start connecting your kit. After a while it really starts to make sense how it all works.

If you get stuck on anything just shout. You will also find the APT forum is really good too for help.

 

HTH,

 

Just noticed that APT now will also use ASTAP for solving and blind solving. This would be your best option as this is what I use in N.I.N.A and is very impressive and quick.

Edited April 27, 2020 by spillage

[Simon Dunsmore]

18 hours ago, spillage said:

Hi Simon,

Okay no problem.

Guiding

This needs to be done via PHD2. But PHD2 needs to be chosen in APT. I am sure when you  start the imaging run it will auto start PHD2 and auto select a star for you.

Dithering

You have a dithering setting in PHD2 and a setting in APT. In APT you also need to set up how often you dither (every frame or every x frame).

I have not used the latest version of APT and it has been a while since I used it. Any tab with a * can have options opened by holding shift and right clicking.

Click on the gear tab and then shift click on guide. The box that opens will give your dithering options and the drop down list for your guiding program.

Click on Camera and then shift click on connect and you can choose your imaging camera. Same with the Gear tab to choose your mount, filter wheel etc.

In the Gear tab click on Point Craft in this page click settings (bottom right) and in here you can download the two programs needed (remember where they install, I think one runs from the folder) point to the programs and there are a few boxes that might need filling in and you should be able to start using objects from the list.

Remember that the trial version never runs out and will really do all you need it to.

Just install it and start connecting your kit. After a while it really starts to make sense how it all works.

If you get stuck on anything just shout. You will also find the APT forum is really good too for help.

 

HTH,

 

Just noticed that APT now will also use ASTAP for solving and blind solving. This would be your best option as this is what I use in N.I.N.A and is very impressive and quick.

Hi Spillage, 

Thanks for your reply. That all sounds good. I think I'm just going to set up (when we get another clear night) and play around with it. 

I appreciate the offer of help. I may take you up on that! 

Thanks again, stay safe and well 

Simon 

[alacant]

19 minutes ago, Simon Dunsmore said:

set up (when we get another clear night) and play around with it. 

Mmm. I'd be tempted to recommend you get it all talking to each other in daylight, connected, focused near infinity...

May save you a few hairs!

Cheers

[Simon Dunsmore]

9 minutes ago, alacant said:

Mmm. I'd be tempted to recommend you get it all talking to each other in daylight, connected, focused near infinity...

May save you a few hairs!

 

That sounds like a good plan. Nice project for the weekend. 

[autonm]

The thread was really interesting, highlighting progress and help from others.... 

I know I am late to to the post .. but Ive created a video with APP for the stacking and then processing in Star Tools for M31, which may help you with your processing.

Please let me know if the video was helpful, I'm already working on further objects and workflows via You Tube. So please subscribe to be notified as they appear !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxkDDLspaiM