Morpheus weight

[jetstream]

The recent posts about Morpheus eyepieces got me thinking.

First I "need" a bit lower mag for the Paracorred dobs for bright galaxies and second the super Heritage 130 is waiting for an eyepiece to maximize views of the same (and M42).

The 13mm Nagler is often quoted as a goto eyepiece for the H130 but my 16T5 while vg gets edged out in contrast by the 18mm BCO and others. So I think I'll scratch the 13mm off the list.

These scopes-H130s- can give such good views it never ceases to amaze me and are worthy of fine eye glass. But as we all know heavy eyepieces, escp long ones will decollimate the secondary.

The 24 ES 68 is fine at 329 (listed) grams.

So can anyone with the 12.5mm and 9mm weigh them without the end caps on? I think these will work with the H130 at the published weights but I need to know for sure before ordering.

A 14mm will work out well with the 15" /PCII in particular, equivalent to a un CC 12.5mm- yeah I'm fussy...

Edited April 3, 2020 by jetstream

[Louis D]

According to my scale, my 9mm Morpheus weighs 327g without caps, and my 14mm Morpheus weighs 361g without caps.

[jetstream]

4 minutes ago, Louis D said:

According to my scale, my 9mm Morpheus weighs 327g without caps, and my 14mm Morpheus weighs 361g without caps.

Thanks Louis, perfect- can I ask what the end caps weigh? then I can figure out the 12.5mm weight.

Its a toss up between the 12.5mm and 9mm for the galaxies in this scope, the 12.5mm wins on M42. My 12.5 mm Tak ortho while extremely sharp falls short on DSO and I have no reason why and I quit trying to figure this stuff out.

[Louis D]

As I recall, the caps might weigh 1g or 2g taken together.  Some don't even register, so must be less than 1g.

[jetstream]

5 minutes ago, Louis D said:

As I recall, the caps might weigh 1g or 2g taken together.  Some don't even register, so must be less than 1g.

Agena lists the 12.5mm at 11 oz -no caps- 1.2 oz less than Baader. If its 11oz it will work for sure- confirmation is nice before I blow a bunch of money lol!

[Don Pensack]

12.5mm is 345g.

Nope, the latest one weighs 320g.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Don Pensack

[jetstream]

3 minutes ago, Don Pensack said:

12.5mm is 345g.

Did you measure it Don? Out of curiosity how much astig shows in the Vixen SSW? I'm looking at those as well but...

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, Don Pensack said:

12.5mm is 345g.

That would seem reasonable for it to weigh in between the 9mm and 14mm.

[JOC]

Someone just posted this Qu. the appeal to my sense of fun didn't they.

OK, my limitation is a suitable set of scales, but I can weigh to the closest 5g with my top pan scales, and have had them all on all with their plastic round top standard eyecups on (not the dust covers - just the little rubber bit that might leave on the top to view with).  Importantly they do not follow an expected progression in line with size and that surprised me, but I can feel the weight differences when I pick each up and some def. don't weigh in order even in my hands.  I  make them:

4.5mm = 355g

6.5mm = 330g

9mm = 325g

12mm = 315g

14mm = 360g

17mm = 305g

 

I'm pleased that my weights for the 9mm and the 14mm are very close to those quoted by Louis D above, I therefore conclude that my scales are indeed weighing to the nearest 5g fairly accurately

Edited April 3, 2020 by JOC

[jetstream]

1 hour ago, JOC said:

I'm pleased that my weights for the 9mm and the 14mm are very close to those quoted by Louis D above

 

5 hours ago, Louis D said:

According to my scale, my 9mm Morpheus weighs 327g without caps, and my 14mm Morpheus weighs 361g without caps.

Perfect!

Thanks for this- it all matters to maximize views. In other scopes too... secondary decollimation can be common and I test all my dobs. Doing this allows 761x on the moon with the 15" and as much mag as I can merge with the binos but only up to 2/3 racked out.

All the numbers agree- Manish at Agena and both of you.

The 9mm or 12.5mm Morph will work in the H130- many of us think 12 oz is max.

Question now is which one lol!

[Louis D]

I'll believe the 4.5mm being heavy.  My 14mm Pentax XL is 352g, my 10mm Delos is 398g, my 7mm Pentax XW is 389g, my 5.2mm Pentax XL is 435g, and my 3.5mm Pentax XW is 423g.  Thus, the shortest focal lengths are actually the heaviest.  It doesn't help they have long metal barrels between the negative and positive sections.  The Morpheus appear to use an engineered plastic like Delrin which probably helps to keep weight down as the barrel gets longer.

That 17.5mm sounds even more tempting at that weight.  My 17mm AT AF70 is 441g, my 17mm NT4 is 727g, and my 17mm ES-92 is a whopping 1153g!  Impressive achievement for Baader.

[Louis D]

3 minutes ago, jetstream said:

Thanks for this- it all matters to maximize views. In other scopes too... secondary decollimation can be common and I test all my dobs. Doing this allows 761x on the moon with the 15" and as much mag as I can merge with the binos but only up to 2/3 racked out.

I've never heard of heavy eyepieces causing secondary decollimation in large Dobs.  Are they twisting the truss poles somehow?

[jetstream]

Yes, the Delos is out for the H130 as is the hvy Doc used for testing focuser twist.

just in...

Just now, Louis D said:

Are they twisting the truss poles somehow?

no. First off I'm fussy on some things, mind you I do get vg views- its a process IMHO.

My OOUK VX10 Al tube will flex, so this is the issue here. I can't binoview with this scope. Very hvy eyepieces will also decollimate this scope.

The 15" is rock solid but the Moonlight will flex about 2/3 racked out with a simulated binoviewer weight. Same goes for the 24"- focuser sag.

However, colleagues tell me the new Feathertouch is worse...

The 15"/24" will not decollimate with hvy eyepieces but I wouldn't want to try a 2" Powermate with an Ethos in it

It is well worth checking focuser alignment and also sag IMHO.

[Louis D]

52 minutes ago, jetstream said:

My OOUK VX10 Al tube will flex, so this is the issue here. I can't binoview with this scope. Very hvy eyepieces will also decollimate this scope.

😲  That's wild.  I've never heard of a solid tube Newt flexing.

54 minutes ago, jetstream said:

The 15" is rock solid but the Moonlight will flex about 2/3 racked out with a simulated binoviewer weight. Same goes for the 24"- focuser sag.

However, colleagues tell me the new Feathertouch is worse...

If you're that picky, you might want to look into a Clement focuser.  No flex, no slippage, and virtually no backlash.

[JOC]

10 hours ago, jetstream said:

Question now is which one lol!

Both!!  

[Don Pensack]

On 03/04/2020 at 08:27, jetstream said:

Did you measure it Don? Out of curiosity how much astig shows in the Vixen SSW? I'm looking at those as well but...

Yes, on a gram scale.  The amount of astigmatism in the SSWs depends on the f/ratio of the scope.  At f/5, they are just OK, not perfect.  At f/8, they're nearly perfect.

The SSWs also all have spherical aberration of the exit pupil, but its effects diminish with focal length.  By the shortest focal length, it would be hard to notice.

[Don Pensack]

Odd.  I measured them on my gram scale only about a month ago and got:

4.5mm--370g

6.5mm--350g

9mm--360g

12.5mm--345g

14mm--360g

17.5mm--312g.

I rounded off, but I was within a gram of Baader's quoted spec sheet weights.

I wonder if they have thinned the barrels and lightened the eyepieces?

Edited April 4, 2020 by Don Pensack

[Don Pensack]

OK, I will have to re-weigh them all again.  I just weighed my personal 17.5mm at 305g, the same as JOC.

And I got 320g for the 12.5mm.

For now, trust his figures.  They are likely to be accurate for current production.

I'll have to ask Baader for clarification.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Don Pensack

[JOC]

My Morpheus have all been purchased separately and were all second hand.  Perhaps the build quality and materials have indeed changed over time.  My data should certainly not be seen as an indication of current production as I can't know when they were all made.

[Don Pensack]

Just got an updated list from Baader in Germany.  They haven't updated their site yet.

They say:

4.5mm--358g

6.5mm--326g

9mm--328g

12.5mm--315g

14mm--363g

17.5mm--305g.

That is very close to JOC's weights.  Excellent.

[jetstream]

21 hours ago, JOC said:

Both!!  

Yeah, I know lol!

Glad to hear these are a bit lighter now- I wonder what the chances of me getting light ones are over here. Actually the 12.5mm and 9mm would be very good additions to the arsenal.

Baaders newest coatings are very good as is there polish IMHO. My 10 BCO go a bit deeper than the deep Delos, which is actually really something. Not all my orthos do, only the best ones. Curious where these Morphs sit is this regard.

Btw JOC, any scope with 2 or 3 "trusses"  (single tubes) just might not like hvy eyepieces.....these Morphs wont stress out the collimation.

[jetstream]

7 hours ago, Don Pensack said:

Just got an updated list from Baader in Germany.  They haven't updated their site yet.

They say:

4.5mm--358g

6.5mm--326g

9mm--328g

12.5mm--315g

14mm--363g

17.5mm--305g.

That is very close to JOC's weights.  Excellent.

Thanks Don, good to know and I'm pleased with their weight. Also good info on the Vixen SSW- I wonder how they work at f4.1 with the PCII?

[jetstream]

On 03/04/2020 at 16:31, Louis D said:

That's wild.  I've never heard of a solid tube Newt flexing.

The area under and around the focuser flexes- a buddy with a VX14 made a plate to stiffen it up. Its all made worse by the need to run an extension adapter (I use the excellent Baader Clicklock instead) which has the EP weight up really high.

My Astrosystems is extremely solid, even with 2 Docter UWA in the Binotron 27s- very hvy. even this combo held collimation until about 1/2 racked out.

I measured the flex with a dial indicator lol!  Thats a long time ago now, sure glad I ran through all this- it was a great learning experience.

[JOC]

3 hours ago, jetstream said:

Btw JOC, any scope with 2 or 3 "trusses"  (single tubes) just might not like hvy eyepieces.....these Morphs wont stress out the collimation.

I have an 8" truss tube Skywatcher (3 trusses), from the perspecitve of the impact to the alignment of the mirrors and the 'tube' set-up itself I have never had the slightest problem with it in terms of the weight put into the focusser.  Where I do have occasional issues is in the ability of the motors to drive the weight, particularly in the vertical axis and I often drive it with no EP in the focusser unit and add it when the scope arrives on target. 

[Louis D]

10 hours ago, jetstream said:

The area under and around the focuser flexes- a buddy with a VX14 made a plate to stiffen it up.

I see now.  The thin wall tubing was too thin around the focuser.  Sonotube may be heavier, but it is stiffer and never dews up or gets cold to the touch in winter.