Celestron EQ Wedge adjustment

[Jupiter1]

Hello All,

I would be Very Grateful for any Help in aligning my Evolution Mount which Has recently been fitted with the Celestron Wedge . I have levelled and set the Latitude correctly and followed the  instructions to set Equatorial

North and select two Stars. The thing is , that I am trying to set it in the Daytime using the Sun (Correctly filtered )and Moon. It does say in the manual that Solar System set up can be used ,but I find after going through all the Time Dates etc ,it goes to the Stars and I cannot go back to type in Solar System .   Getting desperate , can any help PLEASE . 

 

Thank You ,   Best Wishes  Jupiter 1 (Brian)

[Cosmic Geoff]

This seems to be the same Nexstar as the ones I use.

Why are you setting up in the daytime?

If you want to observe the Sun (with filter), then if I remember correctly, you just have to do a solar system align and choose the Sun.  Or align on the Moon- you can't use both.  It should be easy.  IIRC, the alignment mode ( 3 star, auto 2 star, solar system, etc) is one of the first things you select on setup.

By the way, even though Celestron supply these wedges and charge a lot of money for them, I have seen few people, if any, have a good word to say about the results, when compared with putting the OTA on a German Equatorial mount.   You are unlikely to need the equatorial except for long exposure photography (is that your aim?). 

I hope that helps.

[noah4x4]

An All STAR Polar Alignment (ASPA)  won't work with solar system objects. The clue is in its title. Then;

1. Set up with OTA at its Evolution index marks.

2. In the Northern Hemisphere it should be aimed South (at its index marks).. Do so using a compass as the more accurate this is, the lesser the Polar Alignment Error (PAE) to be eliminated.

3. Adjust latitude scale. Your OTA opening will now be aimed at the Celestial Equator and your mount arm leaning North.

4. Using Nexstar + HC perform an EqNorth align using two Stars.

5. Now perform an All Star Polar Alignment. When prompted, you will adjust wedge knobs to physically adjust scope to eliminate PAE.

6. I then recycle power. Using Evolution Clutches, I return my OTA to its index marks.

7. Complete process with a further EQNorth Align.

If using Starsense, you replace the two EqNorth alignments  with regular auto-align. 

Note; it is vital that your mount and HC's are running the latest firmware. There was a bug in the ASPA routine until about two years ago. But allowing for shipping, it is common for Evolution firmware to be out of date. The manuals are hopeless. The SE Series still refer to 'wedge align' which has been replaced by ASPA.

Edited March 5, 2020 by noah4x4
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[Jupiter1]

Thank you very much ,Both Geoff and Noah for your help . I was disappointed  to learn that it is Not possible to use the Wedge like a German EQ because I had a  vision of having a near professional  ( in miniature )

set up that would locate much in our Heavens. I am into the Planets mainly ,so it would appear Geoff  , that I have wasted my money. However some benefit has come out , in that I found the AXIS bearing had a lot of play and I have fixed that. Putting the wedge on made it worse of course because of the backward slope.

another problem that I have is that when I move the axis in slow motion ,say number 3 it tends to run on one way ( I think it is the Positive side in the Gear compensation (Backlash ) I have not found how to improve that yet.

Thanks for your Advice on the HC`s Firmware Noah 4x4  both the mount and the Handset you say , How do I do that , I really have No idea  ?    Many Thanks again to you Both ,Regards Jupiter 1 ( Brian)

Edited March 5, 2020 by Jupiter1

[Cosmic Geoff]

The Evolution mount should work fine without the wedge for any visual work.  It will also be fine for many imaging exploits, such as planetary imaging, or anything else that only needs a short exposure.  I managed to image a 11.5 mag galaxy (just about) using an alt-azimuth GoTo mount.

You don't say what size of  SCT and tripod you have.  Some of the EVO tripods look the same as the budget SE tripod. I have one of those and while it's adequate for visual use it's definitely not what one would choose for imaging anything. The CPC800 and (I think) some EVOs come with a heavy duty tripod which is far more stable.

16 hours ago, Jupiter1 said:

another problem that I have is that when I move the axis in slow motion ,say number 3 it tends to run on one way ( I think it is the Positive side in the Gear compensation (Backlash ) I have not found how to improve that yet.

Yes, if you tilt the mount there will be a tendency for it to run 'downhill' unless carefully balanced. It may happen with German equatorial mounts too but they have counterweights and more 'scope' for adjusting the balance.

In contrast to many domestic appliances, updating the firmware on a Celestron mount or handset is not such a simple exercise, and may entail buying extra cables and downloading some installation programs.  You can check the level of firmware in the handset and mount from the menu.  Then you should read all the "small print" for these revisions and decide whether any upgrade is relevant to you (see Noah 4x4's notes) or whether you would prefer to leave well alone.

[Jupiter1]

Hello Cosmic Geoff,

Many thanks for getting Back, I do have the 9.25 evolution mount which I bought in 2016 with the OTA. I was not happy with the Chinese version ,so I sold it and acquired A TAL 200K after searching for about 9 months ,in Fact I now have 2.    8"  Mirror and they give Superb images of the Planets and Moon.  Kletsov Cassegrain and about the same weight as the 9.25.

I have adapted them both for camera work and Was thinking I could expand into the Galaxies ,so that is why I bought the Eq wedge. I think I will forget the H/S update  and try to Adjust the Backlash on the axis.

If not I might go back to the former and sell the Mount!   Thanks for your Help ,it is much appreciated .  Regards , Jupiter 1 Brian

[Cosmic Geoff]

Dare we ask what the second TAL 200K is mounted on (if anything)?🙂

[noah4x4]

Brian, to upgrade your firmware you need to connect your HC output port to a USB port of a Windows PC running Celestron CFM software (downloadable from the Celestron website).  

Your PC first needs to have JAVA installed and a Prolific Technologies PL2303 serial port driver (download from its site). Run CFM and it will update your mount and HC Firmware. 

If a recent Evolution you require a simple USB mini to Type A cable. If older, you need a serial to USB adapter cable. For either you need the PL2303 driver.

It is possible to update using CFM through Celestron WiFi. Connect your PC to your Scopes WiFi network. It can also be done from an Apple Mac, but others would need to guide you as I don’t know IOS, only Windows.

EDIT

Whilst if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it is good advice, the ASPA routine was broken until December 2018. If your firmware pre/dates that you must upgrade to succeed. 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by noah4x4

[Jupiter1]

Hello Geoff & Noah,

With regards to the second TAL 200k  , it is not mounted and laying in its Box should I need any spares. They have both been adapted with William Optics Crayford focusers .

The older  Rack and Pinion type were  their weak point . But both have Superb Handlapped Mirrors. ( the way to go , I think )

Thank you Noah for your update advice , unfortunately I use a Desktop MAC for online work ,although I have a Windows 10 laptop for my photo work, which I do not use online.

After trying out my setup tonight on the bright shiny Moon ,I am so disappointed because it still will not track correctly , although I set it up using ,as you suggested Geoff , Solar System Only.

I did have the Meridian perfect a few days back by aligning with the Sun at the precise time Midday. I think maybe  I will undo all I have done and try the Original Alt/AZ now I have improved the Celestron Bearing.

What do you think fellas? 

 

Regards  Jupiter1  ( Brian )

 

 

 

[michael8554]

3 hours ago, Jupiter1 said:

I did have the Meridian perfect a few days back by aligning with the Sun at the precise time Midday

The sun was not at the Meridian at midday a few days ago. The time of Local Noon varies throughout the year. 

Fire up your planetarium and click on the sun and see what time it Transits. 

Or use this calculator:

https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/

Michael 

[Cosmic Geoff]

If I were you I would lose the Wedge. The moon is bright.  You should be able to image it with an alt-az mount.

Perhaps it's rude to spend other people's money, 🙂 but you could buy a German Equatorial mount, suitable for imaging (with auto-guiding, etc) to mount the second TAL 200K.  Then you would have two great setups, one for visual and quick imaging, the other for dedicated long-exposure imaging.

It appears that the TAL 200K is no longer in production, but to break one for spares seems rather a crime. 😲  I can't see the need arising unless you drop one and wreck it.

[michael8554]

 

12 hours ago, Jupiter1 said:

I am so disappointed because it still will not track correctly

Can you expand on that Brian ?

Is it drifting in Dec or in RA? 

How quickly are objects moving out of frame? 

Your mount will probably have Periodic Error, so it will drift back and forth in RA over several minutes. 

The 200K has a long focal length which means drift will be more noticeable than with say a rich field refractor. 

On 06/03/2020 at 18:21, Jupiter1 said:

I do have the 9.25 evolution mount which I bought in 2016 with the OTA. I was not happy with the Chinese version ,so I sold it and acquired A TAL 200K after searching for about 9 months

Interesting, I thought the 9.25 was judged to be one of the best SCTs available?

Michael 

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[noah4x4]

To be fair, I no longer use an Evolution wedge as I have adopted Hyperstar (much easier). Using a wedge is particularly skill challenging.

However, once I had updated my firmware I had zero difficulty with a HC or Starsense ASPA using a wedge and my Evolution tracked really well. It is a tedious process and it takes a lot of patience and skill. But if you don't update your firmware (and it can be done with an Apple Mac) and don't follow the instructions (for EqNorth +  ASPA + EqNorth) it is inevitable that problems will arise. 

At f/10, any target will fast depart from a high magnification camera or eyepiece unless your alignment is really good. I suggest you forget Astrophotography until you have  learned how to properly perform a basic ASPA with a low Polar Alignment Error. Avoid Solar System aligns as they are fraught with error due to the retrograde motion of some planets. As I said before, the clue is in the title. All STAR polar alignment (ASPA) is Celestron's favoured methodology for Astrophotography pursuits and works fine, but it takes a lot of skill, hence practice. 

EDIT

There are threads explain MAC firmware updates.

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by noah4x4

[Jupiter1]

Many thanks Brown Dwarf  for your Helpful Advice ,but I did not phrase my statement right. What I should have said was, I have found an Excellent site recently which gives the Rise,

Meridian and Set times for both the MOON & SUN  precisely . Have a look at it ,so much free info .  timeanddate.com    lots of Astro info too.  

[Jupiter1]

Hi sub Dwarf,  

You have put into words what I have been thinking ,    that I will remove the Wedge ,( and many hours of work ) and revert back to the original set up. I should Explain that I have a small dome observatory

That limits me with the amount of room ,therefore I thought I would carry on using the Evolution 9.25  Mount when I sold the OTA. 

I had been searching so long for the TAL that when another was offered within 2 weeks I just had to buy it , not knowing the condition and performance of the first. 

But no worries, they are both excellent.    I didn't really mean to break it up , just hedging my bets!      Many Thanks for your help , Regards Jupiter1.  Brian

[Jupiter1]

Hallo Again Brown Dwarf,

It is drifting in RA, almost as soon as I press the Align Button off it continues ,  with the Object moving out to the left (  East side ) I had No time last night to try correcting with the Backlash Compensation .

Best Wishes Jupiter1.

Re the Celestron 9.25 ,it was my second one . the 1st was obtained in about 2006 made in the USA and was outstanding, I sold it and regretted it some time after. always thinking I would buy another some day.

I did buy another one in 2016 made in China which I thought was very low standard .Full of Ali metal particles even on the Mirror !  I spent lots of time and money Collimating it but it`s performance did not match it`s price, maybe I was just unlucky?

In Comparison, the 8" TAL 200k is very solidly built . the Mirrors are bolted both ends so No Mirror Flop , Open tube means No heat flow problems  the Handlaped Smooth Mirrors give very sharp views .

I just rate both scopes Really highly , it is a shame that they are not being sold by Russia any more.       Thanks again for your Help. Regards Jupiter 1 Brian

[Jupiter1]

Thanks Noah,

You are obviously really clued up with Lots of knowledge and I do appreciate all that you have mentioned. I am taking my setup apart today and get down to getting the best I can with the ALT/ AZIMUTH 

Original . The problem ,as you  pointed out is Experience ,and here in Somerset the skies have been Cloudy and Windy nearly every Night and Day since the end of October .

However I did manage the get some shots of the very distant Uranus of which I was very Pleased , showing the different colours last year in November ( in the Wind ! )

Good site this ,thank you all for the help .   Jupiter 1.   Brian.