Observatory Insurance

[Astro-Geek]

I apologise if I've put this in the wrong section, I couldn't make up my mind which was the most appropriate !

I've searched this forum and the web on the subject of insurance but the info seems very limited.

I would like to insure my Skyshed POD and its contents on a separate policy to my house contents because I'm disheartened by home insurance company's loyalty "penalty" policy whereby existing customer's premiums are hiked up each year, forcing me to switch to a different company every time I renew.  I'd like to be free to shop around each year for my main contents policy, but stick with a specific insure for my astro gear.

I don't need "away from home" cover, just on my premises, in my (reasonably) securely locked POD. (high security Abus disk padlock and hasp etc)

It is adjacent to a wooden fence and shed, so fire is a consideration as well, as it could result in a total loss of everything.

I tried an online quote from Glover and Howe, but they wanted over £200 pa, which seems excessive, since my main house's £75,000 contents cover is £75.

I was also surprised that my postcode and location were not asked at all, which surely would greatly affect the risk factor.  (I live in a country area with a very low risk postcode).

So, are there any other specialist Astro specific insurers other than Glover and Howe ?

[Louis D]

Why not just get an insurance rider for your scopes from whomever you're currently insured through?  Present your inventory and approximate replacement value to them for a quote.  Then, if you change insurers, just present the updated inventory to the new insurer for a quote.

As far as security, and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Skyshed POD just made of plastic and as such would be easy to saw through a side wall with a Sawzall?  If you're out in the country, who would hear it?  Alternatively, a chainsaw would probably work even faster.  An electric one would be fairly quiet.

[Astro-Geek]

I tried that Louis, but my current contents insurer (Saga) have just answered my query that policy changes can't be made after the term has started, and the cancellation fee is £35....  ☹️    Although my sum insured is £75,000, there's a limit of £3,000 in outbuildings contents.

As regards security, The Pod is indeed made of HDPE plastic, but is very firmly bolted together with inaccessible fixings and the heavyweight high density double skinned polythene is much tougher than wood, with minimal joins, so would be quite a bit more difficult to break into than the average planked wooden roll-off shed, which could probably be pried open quietly at the joints.  I would guess that the easiest standard forcible entry point would be the door, but even that is very thick and stiff HDPE, with a full length concealed stainless steel piano hinge.  I've backed up the two point locking T handle with an ABUS "unpickable" disk padlock and class 9 hasp.  ( Trying to achieve a balance between max security without making it look like it has Fort Knox contents 🤓)

Edited February 28, 2020 by Astro-Geek

[Louis D]

2 hours ago, Astro-Geek said:

I tried that Louis, but my current contents insurer (Saga) have just answered my query that policy changes can't be made after the term has started, and the cancellation fee is £35....  ☹️    Although my sum insured is £75,000, there's a limit of £3,000 in outbuildings contents.

Definitely time to find a new insurer.  In my insuring past, both State Farm and Travelers here in the states had no trouble writing insurance riders for expensive jewelry pieces and musical instruments covering loss or damage outside the home soon after I bought them.  Maybe it's a quirk of US vs UK property insurance laws.

[ollypenrice]

If you were an insurer, what would you think of selling a policy to you? Quite honestly £100 sounds OK to me.

Olly

[Astro-Geek]

1 hour ago, ollypenrice said:

If you were an insurer, what would you think of selling a policy to you? Quite honestly £100 sounds OK to me.

Olly

But they wanted over £200.....  ?  (I think it was actually £220, but I was so surprised that I didn't write it down)

I have a £15,000 boat, which is covered comprehensively for £140 a year, moored away from my house and capable of 30 knots, which seems a much greater risk than my little POD firmly anchored just outside the back door ! 😀

Edited February 28, 2020 by Astro-Geek

[Astro-Geek]

1 hour ago, Louis D said:

Definitely time to find a new insurer.  In my insuring past, both State Farm and Travelers here in the states had no trouble writing insurance riders for expensive jewelry pieces and musical instruments covering loss or damage outside the home soon after I bought them.  Maybe it's a quirk of US vs UK property insurance laws.

I've never had occasion to request any additions to my contents insurance during their policy running period. 

Many times I've changed cars during car insurance policy periods and just had to pay an admin fee of approx £10, which I thought would be similar with contents policy changes.

 

[Xsubmariner]

I faced the same challenge when trying to source insurance for my observatory. G&H quoted over £500 pa and home insurers don’t want to quote outside their comfort zones, if at all.  

I also found a lot of users who believed the equipment was covered under their house contents cover, hope they are not too disappointed when they make a claim. I found the maximum cover for outbuildings ranged from £3000-5000 for many of the core home insurers.

With many of my other hobbies, membership societies offered good value insurance for members, negotiated with economy of scale due to member numbers.

Following enquiries with the main Astronomy Societies I was surprised they were devoid of any insurance arrangements, or negotiated discounts for members equipment and observatories.  They remind us how important our contribution is as amateur astronomers, is it too much to ask if they could negotiate a fair priced insurance package for their membership base.

Until we can employ economies of scale as a group, individually we are destined to be at the mercy of specialist insurers and their premium pricing.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Xsubmariner
Less contentious

[Astro-Geek]

My inquiries are leading me to the same unfortunate conclusions xSub.  ☹️

My current contents insurer (Saga) appear to include £3000 contents cover in my outbuildings under my standard contents (£75,000) cover.

Plan B  (for the moment at least), is to not leave any eyepieces or camera gear in the obsy.  At least they're light and easy to carry in and out within fitted cases, (but allowing cool-down time before and condensation airing after use).

A good idea about societies negotiating bulk rates.  My BCU (canoeing) membership actually includes free 3rd party insurance.

I can appreciate that Glover & Howes include all risks, including accident and away from home use,  but I just wanted to cover fire and theft, whilst in my garden obsy, and they didn't appear to have any options for that restriction.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Astro-Geek

[geoflewis]

6 minutes ago, Astro-Geek said:

My current contents insurer (Saga) appear to include £3000 contents cover in my outbuildings under my standard contents (£75,000) cover.

I was with Saga until last year and considered them a very good insurer, not least because they dealt seamlessly and quickly with a £10k+ claim when our house was flooded due to a burst pipe. Unfortunately their renewal premium last year saw a significant hike, in part I think due to the claims history, so we moved to Halifax who at the were my main current account bank provider. This year I have renewal quotes from Halifax, Nationwide, to whom I moved my current account and Saga. Halifax and N'wide both quoted in the £350-£400 range, Saga were a much more expensive £600-£700, so I won't be going back. I am also waiting on a quote from a broker who wants to bundle the house and contents with my car insurance both of which are up for renewal this month.

So regarding my astro gear, in a ROR obs - Yes, Saga set an individual item limit of £3000 for anything in an outbuilding, but I added my AP mount as a specified item at significantly above that value. Everything else is valued at less than £3k single item, but all are covered within the £75k house contents total. It is very similar with Halifax and N'wide, so I didn't find shopping around particularly difficult. My broker left a message to say he has a very competitive quote for me, but I'm still waiting to hear the details.....

Not sure if this helps, but rebuilding costs insured at £1m, contents at £75k in house and/or outbuildings with off site cover for some items and astro gear with one item specified at above £3k all for <£400 to me seems very reasonable.

[Astro-Geek]

23 minutes ago, geoflewis said:

.......... Yes, Saga set an individual item limit of £3000 for anything in an outbuilding..........

I've quoted that section of your post Geoff as it's the crucial point that concerned me with my insurance.

Saga's cap for items in outbuildings is not just £3000 maximum for a single article, but £3000 maximum total for the entire contents of all outbuildings, (and I believe xsub's reply was in the same vein for other contents insurers.)

None of my astro equipment is worth more than £3000 individually (even as "new for old"), but the entire contents is worth many times that,  (not forgetting that with the possibility of fire resulting in a total loss, even less "nickable" items would be lost.)

Edited March 2, 2020 by Astro-Geek

[geoflewis]

48 minutes ago, Astro-Geek said:

Saga's cap for items in outbuildings is not just £3000 maximum for a single article, but £3000 maximum total for the entire contents of all outbuildings

Interesting as this is different to what I understood and not what my policy documents stated, BUT these docs are from a couple of years ago as I no longer insure with Saga. Here are the relevant extract as was - I've underlined the words that I was relying on....

1. Loss or damage
Any loss or damage to your contents or business equipment:

• in your home and within the boundaries of the land belonging to your home including loss or damage caused by scratching or denting, or domestic pets;

The most we will pay for any single item, collection or set is:

• £2,500 for valuables and personal belongings

I understand from talking to Saga last week that this limit is now £3,000.

I raised the specific question with them and was assured that single unspecified items up to £3,000 and total value of items up to £75,000 subject to the single item limit would be covered within the boundary of my property, be that in the home, or in outbuildings.

I may have misunderstood, but I was very precise in my requirements. I've just checked and their renewal price, fixed for 3 years, was £734, so that was the end of it - I won't be insuring with them this year.

Cheers,

[Astro-Geek]

I think it must have changed Geoff.

I've attached two screen dumps of pages from the latest 2020-21 policy document.

There's a further twist to the exact wording that I failed to mention,  "theft" from outbuildings is limited to £3000 maximum (total, not single article), although it appears maybe fire is covered up to the full cover amount.

[Xsubmariner]

I enquired with most of the main name house contents insurers and most had a maximum value for outbuildings of £3-5k total.  I hear there are concerns that the membership numbers for the main Astronomy Societies are dropping, how about they negotiate a good insurance plan for Amateur Astronomers as part of their membership. They might find there membership increasing.

[geoflewis]

4 minutes ago, Astro-Geek said:

I think it must have changed Geoff.

I've attached two screen dumps of pages from the latest 2020-21 policy document.

Thanks for that, yes, it does look different. Is this under their 'Essentials' policy? The policy I was on with them 2 years ago was called 'Premium', but they told me that it is no longer available. Everything I got from them last week was verbal, so makes me wonder if what I was told was correct. The person I spoke to had to go off line to talk to a supervisor a couple of times, so now I'm not very sure the accuracy of what I was told.....

Still that uncertainty is enough for me to recheck the T&Cs for Halifax, N'wide and anyone else I might end up with..... 🙄

[Astro-Geek]

Yes, I'll certainly be checking T&Cs much more carefully on my home insurance policies from now on.

It's a shame that all of the companies I've used over the past few years adopt this customer loyalty "penalty" scheme, by hiking the premiums up after the initial first year.  As with my car insurance, I use GoCompare every renewal time now, and can usually save 50% on the "automatic" renewal premium, and often with exactly the same insurance company, when they offer to "match" the quote they themselves gave through GoCompare.

It's such a negative sales technique.  If they didn't hike the renewal premium, I'd stay with them and let it automatically renew, saving them call centre admin costs and the percentage fee they presumably have to pay GoCompare.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Astro-Geek

[geoflewis]

6 minutes ago, Astro-Geek said:

Yes, I'll certainly be checking T&Cs much more carefully on my home insurance policies from now on.

It's a shame that all of the companies I've used over the past few years adopt this customer loyalty "penalty" scheme, by hiking the premiums up after the initial first year.  As with my car insurance, I use GoCompare every renewal time now, and can usually save 50% on the "automatic" renewal premium, and often with exactly the same insurance company, when they offer to "match" the quote they themselves gave through GoCompare.

It's such a negative sales technique.  If they didn't hike the renewal premium, I'd stay with them and let it automatically renew, saving them call centre admin costs and the percentage fee they presumably have to pay GoCompare.

I totally agree and already gave several insurance companies ear ache this year for precisely that reason. I even bounced back and forth between a couple of them to get them to beat their previous 'best' price. It's become ridiculous....

[tooth_dr]

Thanks for the info on this thread.

Im currently renewing my insurance and my experience is £3000 total limit in outbuildings, but that is for theft. Fire, Water, accidental damage etc is covered to the full amount.  This is with the usual main firms in the UK.

TBH my concern is for all the risks, but theft is up there. I’d hate to be getting just £3000.

Im waiting to hear back from my local firm and should do tomorrow.   They might offer better terms. I now wonder why I bothered buying expensive stuff, as I just worry now.

 

Any one else have any other updates?

Edited May 17, 2020 by tooth_dr

[tooth_dr]

On 01/03/2020 at 10:08, Xsubmariner said:

G&H quoted over £500 pa and home insurers don’t want to quote outside their comfort zones, if at all.  

Yes, to get adequate cover for my stuff (just the main items), it's coming in at a similar value.

[Shimrod]

7 hours ago, tooth_dr said:

Thanks for the info on this thread.

Im currently renewing my insurance and my experience is £3000 total limit in outbuildings, but that is for theft. Fire, Water, accidental damage etc is covered to the full amount.  This is with the usual main firms in the UK.

TBH my concern is for all the risks, but theft is up there. I’d hate to be getting just £3000.

Im waiting to hear back from my local firm and should do tomorrow.   They might offer better terms. I now wonder why I bothered buying expensive stuff, as I just worry now.

 

Any one else have any other updates?

Have you looked into the cost of getting your astronomy equipment added to your insurance as specified items? I do this for my camera equipment and it was a lot cheaper than getting a separate policy.

[tooth_dr]

4 minutes ago, Shimrod said:

Have you looked into the cost of getting your astronomy equipment added to your insurance as specified items? I do this for my camera equipment and it was a lot cheaper than getting a separate policy.

I have indeed, with two or three companies.  There is a limit of £3000 in total for items stored in an outbuilding.

[geoflewis]

7 hours ago, tooth_dr said:

Any one else have any other updates?

I renewed with Halifax. I went through my cover in detail with them and the broker with whom I have my car insurance. The broker confirmed that I got a great deal that they couldn't match. I have the cover that I wanted, which is well in excess of £3,000. See below extract...

So my outbuildings contents cover as standard is total £10k, single item max £3k, on top of which is the telescope mount as a specified item at £10k. To clarify, the reference to 'while in your home' means anywhere within the confines of my property boundary, not just inside the house.

Yes, I paid more than standard, but only a couple hundred pounds at most (total buildings and contents is just over £400) so in my opinion it is well worth it.

Hope this helps.

[Shimrod]

10 hours ago, tooth_dr said:

I have indeed, with two or three companies.  There is a limit of £3000 in total for items stored in an outbuilding.

As with @geoflewis my specified items are insured on or off the premises (and abroad). The definition of premise includes all outbuildings. I am with UIA and the definitions are below:

Premises The buildings and boundaries of the home

Buildings The structure of the private dwelling and the domestic outbuildings, including ... all contained within the premises

Home The private dwelling you live in shown in the schedule as the Insured Property,together with its garages and outbuildings

And in Section C of the insurance policy:

Personal Possessions in and away from the home

We will pay for loss of, theft, or Accidental Damage to:

Specified Items • The items belonging to you or your family which are shown on your schedule

[tooth_dr]

1 hour ago, Shimrod said:

As with @geoflewis my specified items are insured on or off the premises (and abroad). The definition of premise includes all outbuildings. I am with UIA and the definitions are below:

Premises The buildings and boundaries of the home

Buildings The structure of the private dwelling and the domestic outbuildings, including ... all contained within the premises

Home The private dwelling you live in shown in the schedule as the Insured Property,together with its garages and outbuildings

And in Section C of the insurance policy:

Personal Possessions in and away from the home

We will pay for loss of, theft, or Accidental Damage to:

Specified Items • The items belonging to you or your family which are shown on your schedule

Thanks for the update. I’m making enquiries today/tomorrow with a few places.

[cletrac1922]

Astro

I a huge win with my insurance company

They were trying to classify scopes and accessories as sporting equipment, and therefore only covered at home under contents insurance

I argued that my scopes are scientific instruments, same as my mobile phone

They agreed, and now I am covered anywhere, club meets, public viewing nights with my club, presentations K-year 7 primary schools, scout groups

Had to pay an extra $A50 on my contents insurance  per year

Had to supply them serial number of my scopes, and pic of eyepiece case

Our mobile phones are also covered, and they wanted the phone MIN number as well if get lost or stolen

I am through our local motor association insurance company RACQ 

Got a discount on our insurance as well, as bundled our car insurance as well as house and contents insurance

Might be good idea to shop around with insurance companies in the UK

Hope have been of assistance

John