Starting out - Sky Watcher 200pds / HEQ5?

[fijidave]

Hi,

I have been looking into getting my first telescope and I was hoping I could get some advice. I'm after a setup which I can use for visual observation but would also be useful in the (hopefully not too distant) future to be a good starting point for photography and to this end I was looking at the Sky Watcher 200pds and HEQ5 mount. It's a little more than I was originally thinking of spending but I've read quite a few comments that the EQ5 mount isn't quite up to the job when it comes to thinking about photography.

Would this combination be a decent starting point? I guess that initially I'll be using it more for visual use than photography, but I'd like to try and "future proof" my first purchase so that I'm not having to upgrade or by a second telescope for the photography once I manage to make a start on that. 

I was originally budgeting on around 6-700 but at a stretch I could go for the combination above which would be a little over a grand (unless I can find any amazing second hand bargains) Or would anyone suggest looking at something completely different? 

Apologies if this has been answered a thousand times before!

[CaptainShiznit]

I'm by no means an expert but I asked similar questions a few months ago. The 130PDS is recommended above all others in the Skywatcher range for getting into astrophotography so that's what I got and don't regret it. I also have an HEQ5 Pro and it's a great combo. Check out the 130PDS thread on the imaging section, it's a hugely capable scope and would save you some pennies for accessories which you will no doubt quickly populate a wish list of.

John

Edited February 21, 2020 by CaptainShiznit

[fijidave]

Hi and thanks for the advice. 

I have had a look at the 130pds thread and there are some amazing photos there!

How does the 130pds stack up against the 200pds for visual observation? I've read elsewhere that aperture is king for visual, which was making me lean towards the 200pds. 

Would the 150pds be a decent compromise?

[joe aguiar]

 The 200 or 8 inch size will be a scope that u will enjoy for many years. U may not go any highter in size to as its large for a reflector on a EQ mount.

I would pass on 130 size and stick to 200.

8 inches is where u need to be for dso deep sky objects.  So visual it will be very good and a heq5 will hold that fine, norn it comes with eq5. So the heq5 is even better.

The only downfall on this setup is if u get into ap imagining u may need eq6 with a 8 inch f5 scope. Unless u dont get to serious in AP then maybe. For visal the mount is fine for ap it's ok but eq6 would be better.

If u were gonna get a 8 act then the heq5 would be good 

So again if u dont get too serious in ap then it may do.

joejaguar 

Edited February 21, 2020 by joe aguiar

[CaptainShiznit]

I would agree that the 200 will suit you much better for visual. It is a big scope though so I'm not sure how the HEQ5 would hold up once you start strapping auto guiding scopes, cameras, filter wheels etc on top. Would be best to check the listed weight of the 200 vs the other scopes and see how much load weight you have leftover for AP extras later. The 150 would certainly be a good compromise for you in my humble opinion.

John

[Carbon Brush]

My two pennorth.

Buy the biggest mount that your wallet and your back can handle.
That will give you most options on scope choice now and in the future.
Think about carrying, set up and put away.
for example EQ6 weight is OK from garage to garden. But not down 3 flights of stairs.

Having spent (nearly) all of your money on a mount, buy a smaller or lower spec scope to get started.
For visual, you just look and smile. Most of the 'proper name' brands from the astro retailers will be more than adequate.
Avoid ebay entirely and only buy a new scope from an astronomy retailer, whether web or High Street. Not from a department store, or computer shop, etc.

For photos, start out with simple 30 second time exposures. Then you will start to discover tracking errors and everything else.
If you get into the learning about photography and stick with it, then you will get a better idea of what sort of targets you want to photograph.
That will determin what sort of more expensive scope you ought to buy.

Keep asking the questions and enjoy the journey.

David.

[AdeKing]

Get yourself a copy of "Making Every Photon Count" by Steve Richards and read it through.

Very good introduction to imaging and gives tried and tested kit suggestions to avoid expensive mistakes.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html

 

[Erling G-P]

I started out about 1½ years ago with that exact combination; 200 PDS & HEQ5 Pro, except my priority was the other way round; imaging first and foremost, but also a bit of visual.  For the latter, I got a couple of extra eyepieces, in addition to the standard one supplied with the 200 PDS.

I've used the scope visually relatively few times, but every time my reaction has been "I'm SO glad I got this scope".  Looking at the Moon with up to 400x magnification has been amazing; I've marveled at the amount of detail and the subtle nuances visible of the grey colours.  Despite their low positions last year, looking at Jupiter & Saturn has also been very rewarding. I improved things with an ADC, and for the first time in my life, I have conclusively seen Jupiter's GRS live - I've wanted that for 40 years, but the modest 60mm refractor I got as a teenager could never show it.  Saturn has been a marvel too - in the old 60mm, it was always just 'a planet with ears'. In the 200 PDS, I could see subtle yellow-brown cloud details, the grey-white outer & inner rings, with clear Cassini division, and of course some of the larger moons.

M13 looks quite spectacular, and M57, The Ring Nebula is a very 3-dimentional grey 'smoke ring'.

For imaging, I have been shooting unguided, with an unmodded DSLR, just to get started.  A 200 PDS is quite a sail, so it has required quiet wind conditions. Shooting unguided, I found that going over 30 secs length subs generally led to too many discarded subs, due to tracking errors.  Conventional wisdom here will say that the scope is too big for the mount, but some months ago, I got a 130 PDS as supplement, for wider field shots, and to perhaps use in conditions which are too windy for the 200 PDS.  I have only had a chance to image with it once, due to what seems like 4 months perpetual cloud cover. Here it appeared that my waste % of subs at 60 secs was not much better than with the 200 PDS, so I'm leaning more on perhaps a relatively bad example of an HEQ5, rather than the size of the scope being the reason for the problems.  I have not used the 130 PDS visually yet, but it's a considerably smaller scope next to a 200 PDS (I can post a pic if you like), so light gathering & resolution should suffer.

I'm attaching a few of my better images with the 200 PDS, just to give you an idea of what should at the very least be possible for a beginner with this scope & mount.  All unguided, with an unmodded Nikon D7000 using Skywatcher's 0.9 Coma Corrector and comprised of stacked 30-sec subs. Processed in Astroart by a fumbling amateur

 

 

[fijidave]

Thank you all for the advice, it all very useful and certainly gives me something to think about.  I'll order myself a copy of the Making Every Photon Count book and read thoroughly! 

Sadly at the moment I think the EQ6 mount is out of my budget- or I could afford the mount, but nothing to put on it! 

ErlingG-P those photos are amazing! If I'm able to produce anything even a 10th of that quality I'll be a happy man!  One more newbie question sorry, you say you improved things with an ADC. what is an ADC?

To start with I think I need to get myself used to exploring the sky, I have a canon 1000D dslr which I'll look at combining with the telescope once I can find my way around, but i can see theres a LOT for me to learn both both for visual and astro photography!

[joe aguiar]

What about used gear off astro sites?

It will be 30 to 50% off and norm most items are good condition. 

UK astro buy and sell

Y not go visual first so u get used to working eq mount how they work how they move around the sky. How to counter balance etc

Then later a smaller scope for imaging

The camera does most of the work so many people use 80mm apo or ed refractor 

joejaguar 

Edited February 21, 2020 by joe aguiar

[Erling G-P]

4 hours ago, fijidave said:

ErlingG-P those photos are amazing! If I'm able to produce anything even a 10th of that quality I'll be a happy man!  One more newbie question sorry, you say you improved things with an ADC. what is an ADC?

 

Thank you for the kind words!

ADC = Atmospheric Dispersion Corrector.  A nifty little device that can reduce or remove refraction from the atmosphere, causing red & blue fringes around planets low in the sky, because light of different wavelengths are bent at different angles, when passing through the atmosphere.

See here:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-accessories/zwo-125-atmospheric-dispersion-corrector-adc.html

https://astronomyconnect.com/forums/articles/zwo-atmospheric-dispersion-corrector-product-review.34/

I could only get it to work with a Barlow in the chain though - otherwise I couldn't reach focus.

[Neil H]

Hi I don't know if this is of interest there is in the classified section a skywatcher 200pds in one add and a EQ5 goto  they may both come in your budget

[TerryMcK]

The 200pds and an HEQ5 pro combination is ok for visual if you don’t mind sometimes being positioned at strange angles or stretching to get your eye to the eyepiece. It is also borderline when imaging especially when you start hanging cameras and a guide scope on the rig. At which point you will wish you had gone for the HEQ6. The 200Pds really is a big sail on a goto mount and stability is best with a bigger mount.

If going just for visual work then a Dobsonian is a far better choice. If you are going to go down the photo path then forget a reflector and get a refractor. 70 to 80mm aperture. You can still do visual with a diagonal/eyepiece in comfort and you get a wider field of view so you can see objects in context. You can still get great views of solar system objects and the addition of a barlow will get you a little closer.

Your 700 quid budget means you may have to look at the 2nd hand market but even then it will be a light. You will get a decent visual dobby for that sort of cash though. This one is a goto dobby https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-flextube-goto.html that says you can attach a dslr (I can’t vouch for that as there might be prime focus issues with that scope).

Edited February 22, 2020 by TerryMcK

[MattGP]

Super useful thread as I was literally looking at the same setup for AP too, now my head hurts even more around what is best 🤔 

 

[Neil H]

Hi is a flex tube dobs 250 with go-to any good £700 in classified section

[Avocette]

Read the advert carefully - you need a strong back to handle such a scope!

[fijidave]

I was thinking more along the lines of a tripod/mount and ota so that they could be broken down for storage but also so that if I do ever change the telescope I would still have the mount.

I've seen a couple of 2nd hand NEQ6 pro mounts but the price seems to be around £850 but once I add travel costs to pick them up they wouldn't be far off the cost of a new one ( £999 at FLO which would also have the benefit of warranty/delivery)

The other problem is I need to start convincing my wife of the necessity for an extra £500 outlay...! Any advice on that is greatfully accepted!

[Neil H]

Yes do what I did wait till she is nearly asleep then tell her , if then she has a moan later you can stay I did tell you and you said it was ok  

[Neil H]

I also said I didn't want to keep upgrading so this what we need so it's right first time which is a skywatcher 200p on EQ5 go-to plus upgrades and power pack 

[fijidave]

So, 

my current thinking is this - 3 options

SW 200pds - EQ5 mount - On budget, with possibly some left over for extras as required. But - mount unlikely to be useful in the long run for AP

SW 200pds - HEQ mount - More costly. Mount good for visual but not ideal with the 200pds for AP in anything less than ideal conditions. But - mount should be ok if I move to a lighter scope for AP at a later stage (130 pds seems to be popular or a smaller refractor)

SW 200pds - NEQ6 mount - better combination, but quite a bit more than I originally budgeted for. 

Which sort of points me towards the 2nd option as a starting point. 

[Neil H]

The HEQ5 if that's what your looking at could do with the Rowan belt upgrade FLO do it already done but price is high your better off fitting it your self not a bad job 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/belt-mod-kits/rowan-astronomy-sky-watcher-heq5-pro-orion-sirius-eq-g-belt-mod-kit.html

[RobH2020]

On 21/02/2020 at 19:40, Erling G-P said:

attaching a few of my better images with the 200 PDS, just to give you an idea of what should at the very least be possible for a beginner with this scope & mount.  All unguided, with an unmodded Nikon D7000 using Skywatcher's 0.9 Coma Corrector and comprised of stacked 30-sec subs.

Bearing in mind I'm a complete beginner, and haven't perused the AP section here, but those photos are the best dang astro photography photos I've ever seen!! I much prefer those to the Hubble etc photos i see in the magazines! 

[Erling G-P]

16 minutes ago, RobH2020 said:

Bearing in mind I'm a complete beginner, and haven't perused the AP section here, but those photos are the best dang astro photography photos I've ever seen!! I much prefer those to the Hubble etc photos i see in the magazines! 

Thank you very much for those kind words - that's truly a lot more praise than my images can possibly warrant!

If you look around this site, you will find lots and lots of images that far surpass mine, and leave you marvelling at what is possible for amateurs to achieve now.

Still, there's a lot of satisfaction to be had from doing one's own pictures, even though many are doing much better.

[fijidave]

5 hours ago, Erling G-P said:

Thank you very much for those kind words - that's truly a lot more praise than my images can possibly warrant!

If you look around this site, you will find lots and lots of images that far surpass mine, and leave you marvelling at what is possible for amateurs to achieve now.

Still, there's a lot of satisfaction to be had from doing one's own pictures, even though many are doing much better.

Do you know if there's a thread for showing images taken with a sw200pds?  I've seen one for the 130pds, but couldn't find one for the 200. (It's possible I need new glasses as well as a new telescope   )

[carastro]

I'm sorry, but a 200PDS on an EQ5 would be far too heavy for an imaging set up. 

Yes a 200pds might be great for visual, but it's going to give you a restricted FOV for imaging and you will find you can't get some of the medium sized nebulae into the FOV - let alone the big ones. 

Imaging needs to be steady for long exposure, a large scope on a small mount will not be steady enough, and the bigger the scope the bigger a wind sail it will be.  I would even question whether it is too big for an HEQ5.   I used to own a 200PDS but had it on an NEQ6.

I now use an HEQ5.   If you really want to go for aperture, I would compromise with the 150PDS which i have used on my HEQ5, but even that I found restrictive from a FOV point of view.

I'd definitely check out the weight bearing capabilities for imaging on the EQ5 which needs to be half what is recommended for visual.

Meanwhile also check out the FOV on this website.  Enter the camera and scope and choose your target. 

http://www.12dstring.me.uk/fovcalc.php

or this site:

http://www.blackwaterskies.co.uk/imaging-toolbox/

Carole 

Edited February 24, 2020 by carastro