Filters, or eyepieces?

[RobH2020]

Hi all, 

I'm just getting started with compiling a collection of accessories to enhance my viewing. I want to add to the collection slowly, so i get a chance to learn from each new thing and use that experience to better inform the next purchase. 

With that in mind, i was wondering if I'd be better served getting filters earlier or later in the process?

By filters I'm sure i don't really know what I'm talking about but i see on FLO a narrowband UHC filter (unbranded) and a celestron "CLS" filter - City Light Something, or essentially a light pollution filter. Both around forty quid, which is my budget. Both sound useful for me, I'm in a red zone (urban/ suburban). I'm interested in seeing more nebula - improving the Orion nebula, i saw someone said a filter helped them see the veil nebula with similar equipment to me in similar conditions. 

So... any thoughts or advice? : ) 

i have an f/8 skywatcher dobsonian 6", with the stock 10 and 25mm eyepieces, and an 18mm BST StarGuider coming for my birthday... as well as an astro essentials moon filter and an astro essentials 2x barlow.

thanks!

Rob

[John]

If you go for filters I would strongly consider a good quality UHC filter over the CLS type. Unfortunately £40 does not really buy a good quality UHC unless its a used one. Astronomik are really good but their new price is higher than your budget:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/astronomik-filters/astronomik-uhc-filter.html

The lower cost UHC ones are not as effective and the CLS have less impact again. Sorry if that sounds a little blunt but that's what I've found over the years I've been using filters.

For the Veil Nebula, an O-III filter is the tool of choice and, again, good ones such as the Astronomik are the ones to go for. A UHC does help on this target as well but an O-III gives noticably more "punch" to the contrast of the nebulosty against the background sky.

Can you be mobile with your scope ? - some £'s spent on fuel to get to a darker site would make a big improvement on your observation of deep sky objects.

 

 

[RobH2020]

Thanks for your candidness and advice John!

I'll do more research from existing forum posts etc on the differences between the different filter types. 

Did you have any thoughts on whether to prioritise filters or eyepieces when starting from scratch?

Regarding mobility, I'm at a stage in life where that's not really an option... my wife and 1 year old daughter wouldn't want me disappearing for the weekend to stargaze! I could get slightly less local light pollution maybe by driving 10 mins... But i think I'm possibly too close to London for that to make much difference...

[John]

Having been there (twice) with young children I can fully empathize !

In your shoes I think I might prioritize replacing the 10mm and 25mm stock eyepieces with better quality ones. Hopefully you will see why when you get and try the 18mm BST Starguider.

You could think about a 12mm Starguider and perhaps a 30mm Vixen NPL plossl. With your barlow the 18mm and 12mm will also give you 9mm and 6mm eyepieces and the 30mm NPL gives you a low power option for open clusters brighter galaxies etc etc.

Filters would be slightly lower on the list than the above, I think.

See what others think as well - lots of good experience on this forum to dip into

 

[joe aguiar]

I would start with eps then go nebula filters.

Forget about planetary filters the gain is so minimal. 

The gain in nebula filters is very good depends on size scope and what lp your in, but even so the gain is good, but I would start with eps

Joejaguar 

Edited February 20, 2020 by joe aguiar

[RobH2020]

Thanks guys. 

Reading about the filters, including that astronomik one linked above, makes me really want one now though =))

For anyone else reading this, this is useful reading on filters

https://www.prairieastronomyclub.org/filter-performance-comparisons-for-some-common-nebulae/

Edited February 21, 2020 by RobH2020

[John]

Its worth remembering that filters such as the UHC and O-III only really have an impact on nebulae. For clusters and galaxies, dark skies are the best "enhancer"

[Louis D]

5 hours ago, RobH2020 said:

Hi all, 

I'm just getting started with compiling a collection of accessories to enhance my viewing. I want to add to the collection slowly, so i get a chance to learn from each new thing and use that experience to better inform the next purchase. 

With that in mind, i was wondering if I'd be better served getting filters earlier or later in the process?

By filters I'm sure i don't really know what I'm talking about but i see on FLO a narrowband UHC filter (unbranded) and a celestron "CLS" filter - City Light Something, or essentially a light pollution filter. Both around forty quid, which is my budget. Both sound useful for me, I'm in a red zone (urban/ suburban). I'm interested in seeing more nebula - improving the Orion nebula, i saw someone said a filter helped them see the veil nebula with similar equipment to me in similar conditions. 

So... any thoughts or advice? : ) 

i have an f/8 skywatcher dobsonian 6", with the stock 10 and 25mm eyepieces, and an 18mm BST StarGuider coming for my birthday... as well as an astro essentials moon filter and an astro essentials 2x barlow.

thanks!

Rob

You might also invest in a full aperture solar filter to expand your observing opportunities into the daytime.  I've been using a home-made cell for Baader Solar Film for 20+ years.

[niallk]

Hi,

I can only echo what John & others have already said.  I got a 10" dob initially and over the years added stuff. The order i did it was:

1. Telrad - cheap.

2. A couple of EPs - my first update was a 13mm Nagler T6, then a Pan24, and I went with a 2.5x Powermate.  There are cheaper alternatives that perform very well!

3. Lacerta Dual speed focusser upgrade (great value for ~€80).  Love it - transforms focussing.

4. O-III filter.  Later i also got a UHC, both Astronomik.  I possibly have darker skies, and if i could only pick one it would be the O-III for nebulae. 

And if the sun ever picks up activity, Baader solar film for lots of fun white light observing.

 

For me, I spread getting these over several years, but highly recommend a Telrad as soon as possible

All the best,

-Niall 

[Raph-in-the-sky]

14 hours ago, RobH2020 said:

I'm in a red zone (urban/ suburban). I'm interested in seeing more nebula - improving the Orion nebula, i saw someone said a filter helped them see the veil nebula with similar equipment to me in similar conditions. 

This should be confirmed by others who have more experience than me but I'm affraid that with a 6'' Dob in a red zone, you won't be able to see many Nebulae. Orion will probably be visible but I doubt you 'll see the Veil Nebula.

I understand that it's not easy but I highly suggest trying to get to a darker place. I almost always drive an hour to observe. 

[joe aguiar]

I'm in a white zone so even worse

U can see the ring, lagoon,the swan, and a few others but ya it will be kinda dim in red zone with a 6 inch

They say to see dso they reccomend going 8 inches or more. But u have the 6 so try everything u can first with it.

If over time u see that size in red zone is too dim then u may need 10 inch dob.

But getting to darker skies once and awhile will help. If u cant get away or dont drive the 10 inch size will help with lp skies.

There is a good size weight difference from the 6 inch to 10 inch dob tho.

Back in the 90s I travel 90 min to a orange zone, yep a whole 1.5 hrs to get from white to orange. I did that once every 2 weeks on a weekends. 

However another time I travelled 30min  for an hr of viewing from my white zone to a red, and even that really made a difference. 

Back then I had a 6 inch f5  reflector on eq4 (which is the size u have) and in a white zone I couldnt really see m51 galaxy or it was just at the limit I couldnt tell, but that same scope in a red zone I was able to see it and not just abit but clearly. 

 

Joejaguar 

 

Edited February 21, 2020 by joe aguiar

[RobH2020]

John - I've just discovered the post when you first got the OIII filter that you now recommend! Interesting that they were kinda brand new 10 years ago.

I will definitely have to try something of a short trip to get to some darker skies, on the rare occasion we get a clear enough spell of weather!

To be fair, when I say red zone, it's the dimmer red in this diagram on darksitefinder.com, in a salient out into orange territory. I can drive to my parents' house deep in orange country in 10 minutes. Orion Nebula is lovely and visible from my garden, I'm just looking to improve the view further, and try to hunt out some others.

When you guys say you drive somewhere to observe... what sort of place do you go to? a field somewhere? do you ever get local weirdos coming and bothering you?

As you say otherwise I'll see what I can do with my 6" at home, can always upgrade the scope in the coming years.

Sorry the image is so large, it's expanded it to fit the window and I'm not sure how to change that!

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2020 by RobH2020

[Raph-in-the-sky]

I usually try to have a look a golf courses and miniature plane landing strips... They are often remote, with nicely maintained flat areas.

[niallk]

8 hours ago, RobH2020 said:

When you guys say you drive somewhere to observe... what sort of place do you go to? a field somewhere? do you ever get local weirdos coming and bothering you?

I go to a parking area at a beach on the coast here, or up near a cliff walk.

No weirdos (yet!), but there has been a couple of times when there was another car there with some amorous activity going on 😂  I disturbed them, rather than vice versa!!!