Setting up meteor camera - help and tips please :-)

[Helen]

Quite a while ago I picked up a meteor/allsky camera set up from ABS.  I bought it for the watec camera, to do lunar TLP imaging, but its nicely set up so I thought I'd give a go for its designed purpose.

Here are a few pictures.

I can't remember the spec, but it looks like a zoom rather than fixed lens (to get a look at the other side of the lens would mean unscrewing it all).  The housing may restrict some sky?

The case includes a small heater, so hopefully dew won't be an issue.  

So, I'm thinking about where to site it, which direction to point it, at what angle, and what I need to connect it to...

My house is in a housing estate, and my garden has trees to the south (the back of my house faces SSW).  I have a roll off obs with power and a PC.

I'm thinking a pole of some kind on the corner of the obs, and then connect to the obs pc (possibly with an extra hard drive?) or set up an old laptop - does that make sense?  If so, how high should the pole be?  and which direction and at what altitude might be best for first experiments?

And finally, what software are people using?

Thanks

Helen

[tooth_dr]

Hi Helen.

I have a similar setup. What is the lens?

[tooth_dr]

This is one of mine, attached to the obsy using a standard bracket:

 

You should get one of these too:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F233194107644

 

Software, V2 not the HD version:

http://sonotaco.com/soft/e_index.html

[happy-kat]

There's allskyeye by member angrydonkey on here.

[JeremyS]

Hello Helen,

if meteor work is your aim, contact the NEMETODE group http://www.nemetode.org

 

The website has lots of practical info on setting up. The software that everyone uses is UFO http://sonotaco.com/soft/e_index.html

its a bit pricey but works a dream.

NEMETODE can also advise which direction to point your camera to overlap with others in the network, to maximise the scientific impact of your station.

Finally there is a email list you can join to get help. Many NEMETODE members, including myself, also belong to the BAA.

[Helen]

Thanks All 🙂   

I'll get the extra bits for attachment and wiring, check the guidance, download the software, and join the list too.

Watch this (cloudy 🥺) space!

Helen

[Helen]

A bit of progress - I've ordered the cable 🙂 

I've also had another look inside and at the lens:

How does this look? (I'd rather replace before I put it outside if needs be)

I am a little concerned that there is some significant movement between the lens and the collar (not the screw part) - I think there might be a little grub screw?  so will have a better look in the light tomorrow.

When moving this about I found a loose foam disk - any idea where it should go???

 

Next on the list is a bracket, and downloading the software...

Looking at the weather forecast there's no rush 🥺

Helen

[JeremyS]

9 hours ago, Helen said:

I've also had another look inside and at the lens:

It looks like the lens is for 1/3-inch chip camera. Can you check if your Watec camera is actually 1/3-inch, or the more commonly used 1/2-inch, Helen?

If there is a model number or name on it, the 1.3-inch will have H3 in it, where H2 is for 1/2-inch

Edited February 22, 2020 by JeremyS

[tooth_dr]

Hi Helen

That lens is not going to be very good. It’s F1.4 at 3.5mm, and much slower at 8mm.  This will have a significant impact on the meteors you can detect.  That’s the only thing about this type of imaging - you really need to invest in a good fast lens.  Other then that your kit looks perfect.

If you are interested in changing the lens then myself or @JeremyS could definitely give you a few recommendations.

[Helen]

Thanks both 🙂  The camera appears to be a 902H, which I think means its an older 1/2 model.  So recommendations for a suitable lens would be welcomed @tooth_dr @JeremyS 

Thanks

Helen

[stewartw]

Hi Helen,

I have a selection of fast (f0.8) lenses that are ideally suited for meteor work. They're suitable for 1/2" sensors and come in a range of focal lengths (3.6mm to 12mm). Would recommend starting with a 6mm.

Please send me a PM if you would like more details.

William (co-founder of NEMETODE).

[Helen]

I've made some progress with my set up and I think managed to capture a few Lyrids.  The camera did have rather a lot of hot pixels though - I was getting more hot pixels than stars!  So a quick google and spotted a 'new' Watec 902H2 on ebay for £70 including lens, so I thought it was worth a punt.  It arrived and while having no box (I knew this) it does look in excellent condition.  I've set it up this afternoon. 

I've been testing UFOCapture, which looks good.  Just discovered my trial license has run out though, so purchased but waiting for license details to come through so can't use it. 

As a stop gap for testing focus etc I'm using the Arcsoft capture program which came with the converter dongle.  For some reason it won't record (says there's no video feed even though I can see it on screen).  But what I am seeing looks more sensitive than last cam, but I'm getting scrolling banding.

Can anyone who knows about these things tell me the cause?  (I've got an isolator as recommended by Adam). @tooth_dr @JeremyS @stewartw

Thanks

Helen

[shirva]

14 hours ago, Helen said:

I've made some progress with my set up and I think managed to capture a few Lyrids.  The camera did have rather a lot of hot pixels though - I was getting more hot pixels than stars!  So a quick google and spotted a 'new' Watec 902H2 on ebay for £70 including lens, so I thought it was worth a punt.  It arrived and while having no box (I knew this) it does look in excellent condition.  I've set it up this afternoon. 

I've been testing UFOCapture, which looks good.  Just discovered my trial license has run out though, so purchased but waiting for license details to come through so can't use it. 

As a stop gap for testing focus etc I'm using the Arcsoft capture program which came with the converter dongle.  For some reason it won't record (says there's no video feed even though I can see it on screen).  But what I am seeing looks more sensitive than last cam, but I'm getting scrolling banding.

Can anyone who knows about these things tell me the cause?  (I've got an isolator as recommended by Adam). @tooth_dr @JeremyS @stewartw

Thanks

Helen

Hi Helen, I take it that you have genuine ez cap usb grabber,,,, Chinese copies years ago were terrible for noise, I have the 116 models I think,, few 902H watec myself,, couple of hot pixels on mine,, great cameras,, one of the most sensitive back in the day,  I used sharpcap with my analogue kit,  

 I used a cctv 8 channel dvr for mine,, 1.5tb hard drive,, and modded it to suit my astronomy,, the captures from the cameras were saved to the hard drive so could run all night,, you can have a monitor plugged in to dvr and see all live camera feeds on screen or a single camera,, the av coaxial feed to monitor I put in a thee way splitter,, and a feed I sent to my USB video grabber this allows you to capture on sharpcap and adjust settings before saving to computer hard drive.. Yip I took it to extremes 

One other thing,, if it's phase lines across screen,,, it could be a noisy transformer,, that drove me crazy years ago trying to solve 😁 change power supply and retest

 

On 25/02/2020 at 18:07, Helen said:

Thanks both 🙂  The camera appears to be a 902H, which I think means its an older 1/2 model.  So recommendations for a suitable lens would be welcomed @tooth_dr @JeremyS 

Thanks

Helen

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by shirva

[Helen]

Thanks 😊 

The capture device is a climaxdigital vcap302 - I bought it last year, so hopefully ok.

I tried sharpcap last night and get a picture - it was a bit challenging trying to get the settings optimised given the noise!

I'll try a different power supply.

I have also found that the gain setting can be a bit problematic with the supreme.  Unfortunately you have to take the camera cover off to adjust that (why design it like that???).

More testing fun to come 😊

I'll let you know how I get on!

Thanks again

Helen

[tooth_dr]

31 minutes ago, shirva said:

 I used a cctv 8 channel dvr for mine,, 1.5tb hard drive,, and modded it to suit my astronomy,, the captures from the cameras were saved to the hard drive so could run all night,, you can have a monitor plugged in to dvr and see all live camera feeds on screen or a single camera,, the av coaxial feed to monitor I put in a thee way splitter,, and a feed I sent to my USB video grabber this allows you to capture on sharpcap and adjust settings before saving to computer hard drive.. Yip I took it to extremes

Did this set up automatically detect and save meteor captures?

15 hours ago, Helen said:

Can anyone who knows about these things tell me the cause?  (I've got an isolator as recommended by Adam).

Hi Helen
Sounds like you got a good deal on that camera indeed!  What lens came with it?

I wonder could you send a photo of the wiring inside the case? Do you have a heater in the CCTV case? There was issues around how you split the wiring to the camera and heater. Could you try the camera alone, so only 12v to it and nothing else to see if that helps?

I also get a lot more noise in hot weather than cold weather.  I hadn’t checked my camera data for 2 nights to find the HDD full 🤪

 

[stewartw]

Hi Helen,

Good to hear you are making some progress. I assume you are now using the faster lens (6mm f0.8) coupled to a Watec 902H2 Supreme.

This document provides recommendations for the various settings on the camera: http://nemetode.org/Technical%20Notes/TechNote%2001%20Watec%20Cameras%2020150127_03.pdf

Can I just confirm that, having applied 12VDC to the connector on the lens, the iris opens fully (you should be able to see this happening as it takes a second or so for it to open) - and disconnecting the 12VDC, the iris closes again.

Assuming the iris opens fully, you should get a reasonably bright image that in turn means that brightness and contrast can be reduced (thus reducing noise levels).

Any questions, I can talk you through them - my mobile in on my 22nd Mar email.

Best regards

William

[shirva]

The set up I used was not used  used for meteor capture,, more a wide field live view set up,,  but with the 1.5tb hard drive,, it could be left on,, and multiple cameras used,, this was my multi camera array, consisting of Samsung scb2000, Phil dyer camera and watec 902H cameras, using, wide and zoom lens configuration 

[shirva]

Think there were three of us using cctv dvr units, still have all my kit,, only ever sold a az mount and st102, 😁

[Helen]

Thanks.  It came with a Yamano 3.5mm f1.4 direct drive lens.  But yes, William, I've transfered the 6mm lens to the new camera and the image does seem nice and bright (I was cloud spotting with it last night 🙄).  And setting up during the day yesterday (trying to nail focus) I was seeing a nice wide angle too.

Having read the guidance, I can check again during daylight (will adjust the switch on the back to stop white out during daylight!).  I'll also change power and see what happens.  I may need to open the case to adjust the gain though...

If that doesn't improve things then I'll call you William! (Maybe a WhatsApp call to more easily show you...)

I've noticed we have a redundant satellite holder on the back wall of the house.... I may repurpose it 😉

Now waiting for my license for UFOCapture to come through.

Thanks again guys, from my playing this week I'm convinced it will be fun 😊

Helen

 

 

[JeremyS]

Just read this @Helen. I'm sure with William's help, you will be up and running soon 🙂

The good news is when you've got it all going, which can be a bit fiddly,  it's all generally smooth after that.

Good luck!

[tooth_dr]

@JeremyS agreed, William is incredibly helpful and sorted me our with my pc and capture card. Michael O’Connell is also a good guy and helped me out a few times over here in Ireland. 

[shirva]

Analogue days were great fun,.   I've been doing a bit of work with old stash on the raspberry pi 4 and had it set up for remote desktop,, and I bought a second one for testing and the thing that  interested me was rigging up one of my watec with a wide angle lens and see if I could get it to work  via raspberry pi,, ez cap  116 can be used with Linux I read somewhere,, if it did,, nice remote desktop project 

[Helen]

Clouded out tonight, and other things to do, but hopefully over next couple of days/nights...

Helen

[shirva]

Never ending, busy doing upgrades for next dark sky season,, don't do solar,, so I'm starting early to get a head start