Ioptron EQ pro vs Skywatcher EQ3 pro

[Tommohawk]

Hi all

I've been using an SW EQ3 pro for some years as a travel mount with generally good results, but the head doesn't pack very easily - I usually have to remove the motors and then resetting them is a bit of a pain. I've been wondering about the Ioptron EQ pro not least because it has a flatter profile when packed, and is a bit lighter. I plan to use my Sharpstar 61 +  7 posn wheel + guidescope - this works fine on the EQ3 pro.

The key issue seems to be the tripod. At the moment I have a steel Skywatcher tripod (and weight) stashed in Spain which fits the EQ3 pro nicely, and is a good and solid.

So questions are:

1. Anyone got the Ioptron mount? Any thoughts on how it compares to the SW EQ3 pro?

2. Can I use the Ioptron mount head on the SW tripod?

3. I use a Lynx FTDI cable/EQMOD. Do I need a different cable for the Ioptron mount?

4. Are the weights interchangeable?

Grateful for any thoughts on this!

 

[Geoff Lister]

Hello Tom,

I have the  Ioptron SmartStar CubePro (designed as AZ/Alt, but EQ modes available if on a wedge) mount.

On ‎15‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 18:15, Tommohawk said:

4. Are the weights interchangeable?

If it helps, the counter-weight shaft has a diameter of 19.3mm and works well with weights designed for the SW SkyTee 2 mount.

On ‎15‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 18:15, Tommohawk said:

2. Can I use the Ioptron mount head on the SW tripod?

The underside of the CubePro has an almost flat base and has an internal 3/8" - 16 UNC thread (as used on the Virtuoso Dob. mounts). This thread-form is very similar, but not quite identical, to that of the SkyTee 2 top to tripod long bolt.

Geoff

[Cornelius Varley]

On 15/02/2020 at 18:15, Tommohawk said:

3. I use a Lynx FTDI cable/EQMOD. Do I need a different cable for the Ioptron mount?

You will need to consult the user manual as to the type of cable is required.  EQMOD is for Synscan mounts only, so you will need a different method to control the mount from a computer.

[Tommohawk]

2 hours ago, Geoff Lister said:

If it helps, the counter-weight shaft has a diameter of 19.3mm and works well with weights designed for the SW SkyTee 2 mount.

OK thanks Geoff. I did a bit more searching and was surprised to see the counterweight diameter is published for the Smart EQ pro - it's 16mm. So my weights with a 20mm hole would be a bit sloppy - probably OK if clamped tight or with homemade collar/insert I guess.

 

2 hours ago, Geoff Lister said:

The underside of the CubePro has an almost flat base and has an internal 3/8" - 16 UNC thread (as used on the Virtuoso Dob. mounts). This thread-form is very similar, but not quite identical, to that of the SkyTee 2 top to tripod long bolt.

Hmm. so not sure how this would work and the Synta tripod top - maybe could be adapted. I had a look at some assembly pics but difficult to see how it would match.

 

2 hours ago, Cornelius Varley said:

You will need to consult the user manual as to the type of cable is required.  EQMOD is for Synscan mounts only, so you will need a different method to control the mount from a computer.

Thanks Peter. Looks like there is an FTDI cable available for PC control, but presumably different to the Synta one. Not a deal breaker, but I'd rather avoid yet another cable with potential to pack the wrong one!

It's a shame cos I like the look of the Ioptron Smart EQ Pro for travel, but too many possible issues. Don't want to get to my chosen holiday spot only to find I cant get the gear working.

If anyone else has any thoughts I'm still listening!

[Geoff Lister]

6 hours ago, Tommohawk said:

Looks like there is an FTDI cable available for PC control

My Ioptron mount came with an RS232 lead. The computer end is the standard 9-way "D", and the other end is RJ9 (4P4C), and goes into the 8408 "Go2Nova" handset. The handset connects to the mount's "HBX" (Handbox) port via a curly lead with RJ11 (6P4C) jacks at both ends. The manual mentions ASCOM drive protocol for computer control, and Ioptron do a USB to RS232 adaptor lead (part# 8435), but no mention of the FTDI chip-set. There is also a "StarFi" wireless adaptor available (part# 8434).

Geoff

[Tommohawk]

3 hours ago, Geoff Lister said:

My Ioptron mount came with an RS232 lead. The computer end is the standard 9-way "D", and the other end is RJ9 (4P4C), and goes into the 8408 "Go2Nova" handset. The handset connects to the mount's "HBX" (Handbox) port via a curly lead with RJ11 (6P4C) jacks at both ends. The manual mentions ASCOM drive protocol for computer control, and Ioptron do a USB to RS232 adaptor lead (part# 8435), but no mention of the FTDI chip-set. There is also a "StarFi" wireless adaptor available (part# 8434).

Geoff

Thanks Geoff.

TBH the whole ASCOM /EQMOD  Stellarium/Scope control/ thing is a bit of a mystery to me! And I've no idea what the FTDI chip/cable does - I seem to remember having a serial port converter thingy previously and cant recall why I switched to the LYNX FTDI cable.

I do know that my current system works well with both my EQ3 Pro and my HEQ5 and my own internal chipset wont cope with any more information, so not keen to change unless its straightforward!.... but I do like the look of the Ioptron mount!

[Anne S]

42 minutes ago, Tommohawk said:

Thanks Geoff.

TBH the whole ASCOM /EQMOD  Stellarium/Scope control/ thing is a bit of a mystery to me! And I've no idea what the FTDI chip/cable does - I seem to remember having a serial port converter thingy previously and cant recall why I switched to the LYNX FTDI cable.

I do know that my current system works well with both my EQ3 Pro and my HEQ5 and my own internal chipset wont cope with any more information, so not keen to change unless its straightforward!.... but I do like the look of the Ioptron mount!

Ioptron supply the correct cable minus the serial to USB adapter with their mounts. I used to use EQmod with my eq6. I've been using Ioptron Commander for years and it's very straightforward. Once you've found which com port you're plugged into and connected once Commander connects automatically the next time. There's also goto options built in and several park positions should you leave your mount up between sessions. There is some information in the software downloads section about connecting the mount to the laptop. I've even found an Ioptron Mount lead with a usb plug on the other end, so no serial to usb concerter needed.

I use Commander with my new CEM60 and older IEQ30pro quite happily.

[Tommohawk]

On 18/02/2020 at 21:58, Anne S said:

Ioptron supply the correct cable minus the serial to USB adapter with their mounts. I used to use EQmod with my eq6. I've been using Ioptron Commander for years and it's very straightforward. Once you've found which com port you're plugged into and connected once Commander connects automatically the next time. There's also goto options built in and several park positions should you leave your mount up between sessions. There is some information in the software downloads section about connecting the mount to the laptop. I've even found an Ioptron Mount lead with a usb plug on the other end, so no serial to usb concerter needed.

I use Commander with my new CEM60 and older IEQ30pro quite happily.

OK that's useful info. Sounds like Ioptron system works well … the biggest issue for me would be alternating between that and the Synta setup.

I'm not familiar with Commander at all - looks like its possible to control the mount via Stellarium.. have you had that working?

[Anne S]

I've never really got to grips with Stellarium. Years ago I used to use Cartes de Ciel to slew to objects and do the alignment stars. Now I open the Sky 6 for reference but don't connect the telescope. Platesolving does away with the need to align the telescope. I just slew using a Maxim dl or Sequence Generator pro.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Anne S

[Tommohawk]

Ok thanks for that. I think I'm way too mentally overloaded to be re thinking my kit now! I seem to be forever changing my hardware and software and I need a period of stability!! 

I think I'll just stick with the sky watcher EQ3 Pro for now. 

[Tommohawk]

On 20/02/2020 at 16:50, Anne S said:

I've never really got to grips with Stellarium. Years ago I used to use Cartes de Ciel to slew to objects and do the alignment stars. Now I open the Sky 6 for reference but don't connect the telescope. Platesolving does away with the need to align the telescope. I just slew using a Maxim dl or Sequence Generator pro.

Platesolving…. yet another dark art! I'm doing more widefield now, so much easier to locate targets. But sometime I want to return to longer EFL work and then maybe I should check platesolving out. Too much to do.... too few clear nights! 

Out of interest, whats the longest focal length you think it's practical to platesolve at? Reason I ask is that when doing planetary work I'm often using about 5000mm focal length with tiny chip and then it can be tricky locating target. 

[Anne S]

 The longest I've tried is 1370mm and that worked fine. My field of view was 0.52*0.42 degrees. You need sufficient stars.

I use Platesolve 2 which is a free download but you need to be reasonably close to where you're supposed to be pointed at. There are also blind solvers, both online and with downloaded catalogues which will tell you where you're pointing without any hints. It's brilliant. I never have to align my scope as long as I'm polar aligned. You need to be connected to the mount so that the solver can send the sync command to it. You then slew to your target and it should be centred. I've also used a bright star close to my target when I'm at a starparty just to get in the ballpark!

I don't see why you shouldn't use it for planetary as long as there are enough stars in the fov. Not sure about 5000mm though, I would remove any Barlow from the camera and then replace it once it's slewed to the planet you want.

I've only imaged the brighter planets, though I have looked at Uranus and Neptune in my 8 inch SCT days.

My husband does video astronomy and uses a flip mirror to help locate the target. Have you tried that?

[Merlin66]

Using a C11 at f10 and a small FOV reflective slit plate (for spectroscopy) which is only 8.6 x 13.1 arcmin, I end up using a 60mm x 220mm fl eFinder (ol' DMK51 camera) for the occasional plate solving.

Works well for me.

 

[Tommohawk]

11 hours ago, Anne S said:

 The longest I've tried is 1370mm and that worked fine. My field of view was 0.52*0.42 degrees. You need sufficient stars.

I use Platesolve 2 which is a free download but you need to be reasonably close to where you're supposed to be pointed at. There are also blind solvers, both online and with downloaded catalogues which will tell you where you're pointing without any hints. It's brilliant. I never have to align my scope as long as I'm polar aligned. You need to be connected to the mount so that the solver can send the sync command to it. You then slew to your target and it should be centred. I've also used a bright star close to my target when I'm at a starparty just to get in the ballpark!

I don't see why you shouldn't use it for planetary as long as there are enough stars in the fov. Not sure about 5000mm though, I would remove any Barlow from the camera and then replace it once it's slewed to the planet you want.

I've only imaged the brighter planets, though I have looked at Uranus and Neptune in my 8 inch SCT days.

My husband does video astronomy and uses a flip mirror to help locate the target. Have you tried that?

I think I'll have to give it a go - platesolving I mean. I'm just playing with NINA and this seems to integrate the catalogues nicely for offline use too, and blindsolving. 

Flip mirror - havent tried that, because trying always to minimise the components in the optical train, mostly to keep thing simple. Typically for the last few years I do DSOs in winter/spring, and then switch to planetary - and can never remember the various spacers etc required. 

As you say, I can just switch the barlow in after - trouble is the FOV is so tiny its really easy to lose the target just in the switch process.

Funnily enough theres a flip mirror reviewed in this months AN and it does look pretty good. One other issue though is that this adds to the train, and I try and keep this as short as possible because it allow use of the smallest possible secondary mirror so minimal central obstruction.

12 hours ago, Merlin66 said:

Using a C11 at f10 and a small FOV reflective slit plate (for spectroscopy) which is only 8.6 x 13.1 arcmin, I end up using a 60mm x 220mm fl eFinder (ol' DMK51 camera) for the occasional plate solving.

Works well for me.

 

OK - you saying you platesolve with the finderscope? Sounds good but I wouldnt trust the alignement of my finder and dont have a camera that would easily fit. Maybe if I use the dual rig though, and use my DSO camera (ASI1600) on the guide scope.... cant easily tweak the alignment of the scope, but if I could somehow use a recentred reticule on the guider ....  that might work.

Would also save fiddling around with a finder and finder alignment completely... need to give that some thought!

[Thalestris24]

Hi Tommo

I realise this is a slightly old thread... Was just wondering if you ever got a Smart EQ Pro? I'm currently looking at this too as I want something lightweight that I can easily carry up and down stairs (I've been trying to find some way of doing this for the last 5 years!). I've already got the SW EQ£ Synscan Pro and it's quite good value. However, it's still a bit too heavy for me - I need to get down two flights of stairs in one go...

If anyone else has anything to say about this mount, that would be useful!

Thanks

Louise

[Tommohawk]

Hi Louise

I looked quickly at the date of this thread and saw Feb 15. So I'm thinking I'm going to struggle to remember the ins and outs of this if it's 2015. Then I realized it's Feb 15th of this year. But I'm still struggling to remember!

Well... I definitely didn't get the Ioptron mount, I think I just decided there were too many variables. And TBH I would have been disappointed if I had bought it because I had to scrub my trip to Spain because of the covid19 situation.

Re the weight of your set up, do you have ally tripod or steel? Ally obviously a bit lighter. Also you might be able to reduce size/number counterweight s by using an extension?

Would be good if someone nearby had one you could check out. 

Will be interested to see how you resolve it.

 

 

[Thalestris24]

1 minute ago, Tommohawk said:

Hi Louise

I looked quickly at the date of this thread and saw Feb 15. So I'm thinking I'm going to struggle to remember the ins and outs of this if it's 2015. Then I realized it's Feb 15th of this year. But I'm still struggling to remember!

Well... I definitely didn't get the Ioptron mount, I think I just decided there were too many variables. And TBH I would have been disappointed if I had bought it because I had to scrub my trip to Spain because of the covid19 situation.

Re the weight of your set up, do you have ally tripod or steel? Ally obviously a bit lighter. Also you might be able to reduce size/number counterweight s by using an extension?

Would be good if someone nearby had one you could check out. 

Will be interested to see how you resolve it.

 

 

Hiya

Oh ok. It's anyway always difficult to part with cash for something that doesn't have lots of positive reviews. I actually discarded the flimsy aluminium eq3 mount and put the head on an heq5 mount - much sturdier but quite a bit heavier. The eq3 head on its own weighs 4.6kg, the heq5 tripod is 5.6kg. Plus, say 2kg for a scope plus 2kg cw. So it's around 15kg overall and it's just too heavy for little me! The Smart EQ is only 2.8kg + 2.7kg for tripod plus the other 4kg < 10kg which I can probably manage without breaking my neck going down the stairs... Laptop can go in a backpack. Obviously, one only gets what one pays for, though the smart EQ Pro is a similar price to the eq3 synscan. My flat is getting cluttered with too many mounts here and there! However, I've been stuck using them from indoors and I've had enough of that now. So one more might be the answer... I do wish there was an astro showroom nearby but there isn't. I sometimes wish I had a car but I don't. If only I had more muscles but I think it's a bit late in the day to contemplate bodybuilding, lol.

Thanks

Louise

[Tommohawk]

Maybe a hoist/winch type arrangement from your balcony?

Or maybe stash the mount with a friend ly ground floor neighbour?

Edited May 18, 2020 by Tommohawk

[Thalestris24]

Just now, Tommohawk said:

Maybe a hoist/winch type arrangement from your balcony?

I wish I had a balcony!