Mains power from house to pier

[ian_bird]

Redacted.
 

Edited February 10, 2020 by ian_bird

[JamesF]

I do appreciate your position, honestly.  The problem is that as much as they want to help, people aren't usually going to want to suggest on a public forum that you do something that wouldn't be considered safe.  There is no real definition of "safe" where electricity is concerned other than complying with the relevant regs.  And that's what makes it more complicated because the regs demand certain requirements are met when you have mains electricity next to a big fat earthed conductor, especially when it's some distance from your house.

James

[ian_bird]

3 minutes ago, JamesF said:

I do appreciate your position, honestly.  The problem is that as much as they want to help, people aren't usually going to want to suggest on a public forum that you do something that wouldn't be considered safe.  There is no real definition of "safe" where electricity is concerned other than complying with the relevant regs.  And that's what makes it more complicated because the regs demand certain requirements are met when you have mains electricity next to a big fat earthed conductor, especially when it's some distance from your house.

James

James

Good point. I have redacted my post.

Thank you.

Regards

Ian

 

[JamesF]

Just now, ian_bird said:

James

Good point. I have redacted my post.

Thank you.

Wasn't specifically directed at you, Ian.  Our posts crossed, in fact.

James

[ian_bird]

 

2 minutes ago, JamesF said:

Wasn't specifically directed at you, Ian.  Our posts crossed, in fact.

James

You had a good point. A very good point. I appreciated you drawing it to my attention.

Cheers.

Ian

Edited February 10, 2020 by ian_bird

[bottletopburly]

If you have a shed ,if not why not make a small water proof enclosure big enough to hold sockets ,12v psu then get a sparky to run armoured cable to that , then run 12v to pier via conduit underground , personally  I would avoid 240v to a weatherproof socket open to elements , put it in a decent  weatherproof insulated dry enclosure .

[wxsatuser]

4 hours ago, JamesF said:

And that's what makes it more complicated because the regs demand certain requirements are met when you have mains electricity next to a big fat earthed conductor, especially when it's some distance from your house.

James

This is where we have to be careful with metal objects buried in the ground and metal appliances outside, especially on a TN-C-S system.

If the supply is TN-C-S, neutral is the earth and the if the neutral gets broken on the supply most likely RCDs will not work
as a balanced current can still flow to earth.

Yes you can get away with it but what happens when a fault occurs, it may be never but......

Main bonding should go right back to the earth entry, yes you could put a rod in but depends on the ground etc.

 

 

[WanderingEye]

3 hours ago, wxsatuser said:

This is where we have to be careful with metal objects buried in the ground and metal appliances outside, especially on a TN-C-S system.

If the supply is TN-C-S, neutral is the earth and the if the neutral gets broken on the supply most likely RCDs will not work
as a balanced current can still flow to earth.

Yes you can get away with it but what happens when a fault occurs, it may be never but......

Main bonding should go right back to the earth entry, yes you could put a rod in but depends on the ground etc.

 

 

It’s not a big metal object buried in the ground, it’s sitting on concrete that is in the ground, it’s a different thing... 👍😀

[WanderingEye]

9 hours ago, souls33k3r said:

Yeah that's exactly what I thought I'd need but all these super technical stuff has got me even more confused than I started this topic 🤣

I already have an RCD and use that regularly. 

The sockets that I've been looking at are

Just wanted to be sure of the cable really. 

Like I said before, I thought all what I'll need to do is plug in the RCD in to the wall socket in my house, get this outdoor cable and extend it all the way to the pier and on the pier will have the above waterproof socket and that's it. 

That’s exactly what I used... it’s perfect.... 👍😀

[JamesF]

8 minutes ago, WanderingEye said:

It’s not a big metal object buried in the ground, it’s sitting on concrete that is in the ground, it’s a different thing... 👍😀

Well, bolted down to concrete, so there's a clear conductive path to earth.

Those sockets are good though.  I think they're basically the same as we had installed for outside sockets here.

James

[Jkulin]

On 09/02/2020 at 22:23, david_taurus83 said:

Why not just run a 12v supply outside? I have a Nevada 12v supply indoors and I run out a 15m cable

Exactly, I run 12v cables of 2.5mm out about 15m from my leanto shed, then everything connects via waterproof connectors to my pier.

I use Nevada 25-30A power supplies, two cables from each, one to my CEM120EC mount and the other to my Pegasus UPB, and then from the other I run my Laptop and a separate feed to my CEM40EC, they remain out 24/7 and the only time they get moved is when mowing the lawn.

Personally I would never suggest anyone run 240V out to their pier without it being protected in an Obsy, yes you can get water proof sockets and they do work, but as many have said they need a proper earth and RCD.

[WanderingEye]

7 minutes ago, Jkulin said:

Exactly, I run 12v cables of 2.5mm out about 15m from my leanto shed, then everything connects via waterproof connectors to my pier.

I use Nevada 25-30A power supplies, two cables from each, one to my CEM120EC mount and the other to my Pegasus UPB, and then from the other I run my Laptop and a separate feed to my CEM40EC, they remain out 24/7 and the only time they get moved is when mowing the lawn.

Personally I would never suggest anyone run 240V out to their pier without it being protected in an Obsy, yes you can get water proof sockets and they do work, but as many have said they need a proper earth and RCD.

Can I ask why you don’t power your mount from the UPB...? Am curious

[Jkulin]

1 minute ago, WanderingEye said:

Can I ask why you don’t power your mount from the UPB...? Am curious

Two reasons, the first is that from experience I find mounts prefer their own feed as it guarantees a minimum of 12v, in my case over 13v and improves the reliability when everything is on.

The other reason is that the iOptron mounts have a feed in the base not on the rotating head, so there is no drag or chance of the feed getting snagged, iOptron just use a 2.1mm jack socket and to me I would prefer something that locked the power in place, it's just a minor niggle.

So with a single feed going up to my UPB it saves unnecessary counter balancing and with a separate fused feed saves any possibility of blowing the whole lot.

[DaveL59]

On 10/02/2020 at 10:00, JamesF said:

Well, bolted down to concrete, so there's a clear conductive path to earth.

Those sockets are good though.  I think they're basically the same as we had installed for outside sockets here.

James

I'd say tho that OP will need to be sure to get the correct gland connectors for that socket so that the cable is properly secured and the IP-rating of the completed unit is maintained, esp if the plan is to hang that on the end of a trailing lead. 

[DaveS]

I had power taken out to my imaging platform when I had the garage rewired. 40A cable to a small consumer unit with RCD in the garage, then two runs out, one to the platform, the other unconnected as yet, but will power the obsy when it's built. The platform has a pair of twin IP66 13A sockets like the one Ahmed linked to.

[Paul M]

On 10/02/2020 at 00:48, JamesF said:

There is no real definition of "safe" where electricity is concerned other than complying with the relevant regs.

That's the top and bottom of it. Private individuals can do as they please in their own home (mostly!), even install and commission a gas boiler but if you hurt someone down the line you'll struggle to defend yourself against the Duty of Care failure. A professional can choose to use their own standard but if the nice judge asks you to explain yourself you have to be able to demonstrate that your standard was no less safe than the relevant standards (BS7671 for wiring). 

And anyway, free advice is often worth exactly what you pay for it!