Polar alignment (HEQ5)

[CaptainShiznit]

I'm aware there's a few active HEQ5 posts at the minute so apologies for making a new one, I just didn't want to hijack someone else's topic.

I've been following along these tutorials on YouTube of setting up my mount. While the videos are good to see, they're a bit hard to follow at times and I had some questions about the reasons behind certain things.

1. When he levels the tripod at the start, what's the point of this when it's going to be moved outside where the ground is different? Should this be done every time when setting up for real outside?

2. At approx 13:30 he aligns the polar scope to a random star, moves it to the bottom of the Polaris circle, then rotates the RA axis to get the star where Polaris should be and zeroes the clock. It's not until the next video that he then aligns Polaris. He states that this step makes polar alignment easier but as he doesn't state the reason I don't follow why he's suggested this step.

3. When he locks his clock and then moves the RA axis, the clock moves with the axis. However, when I lock my clock, it remains locked to the mount and doesn't move with the axis. Is this just a difference in design with my HEQ5 to his NEQ6? Should I have mine unlocked when his is locked and vice versa?

4. Are there any better setup videos than these about? While these are thorough, they aren't terribly well made and I find them difficult to make sense of a lot of the time.

 

Cheers

[AndyThilo]

If you want to set up your mount to physically mark your home positions for RA and DEC, this guide is very easy to follow and uses the handset. It's the same theory, just a different method:

https://worcspaul.wordpress.com/2011/06/14/accurately-setting-the-“home”-or-“park”-position-on-a-skywatcher-eq5-pro-mount/

It's for the EQ5, but it's a valid method for relatively any mount.

For polar aligning, just use Sharpcap or get a Polemaster. Far easier than breaking your back staring through a polar scope.

[Jiggy 67]

I’m a big fan of Astronomy Shed. I’ve looked at loads of videos and his are, by far, the best IMO

1) I think he’s just demonstrating for the video, leveling would be done outside . Leveling isn’t essential but it only takes a few minutes so why not do it

2) This technique is used to calibrate the polar scope 

3) I’m trying to picture mine...when you lock the clock it should stay put when you move the mount.....I think 

Edited January 11, 2020 by Jiggy 67

[CaptainShiznit]

1 hour ago, Jiggy 67 said:

I’m a big fan of Astronomy Shed. I’ve looked at loads of videos and his are, by far, the best IMO

1) I think he’s just demonstrating for the video, leveling would be done outside . Leveling isn’t essential but it only takes a few minutes so why not do it

2) This technique is used to calibrate the polar scope 

3) I’m trying to picture mine...when you lock the clock it should stay put when you move the mount.....I think 

Cheers for this. What does the calibration actually do? What would happen if I skipped it? (Just trying to understand).

I'm not trying to be negative about the videos because I do appreciate the effort of making them but from a critical standpoint I find them a bit lacking, like the poor quality camera and mic used, the lack of a script etc. They are helpful but I just think they could be made better

[CaptainShiznit]

2 hours ago, AndyThilo said:

If you want to set up your mount to physically mark your home positions for RA and DEC, this guide is very easy to follow and uses the handset. It's the same theory, just a different method:

https://worcspaul.wordpress.com/2011/06/14/accurately-setting-the-“home”-or-“park”-position-on-a-skywatcher-eq5-pro-mount/

It's for the EQ5, but it's a valid method for relatively any mount.

For polar aligning, just use Sharpcap or get a Polemaster. Far easier than breaking your back staring through a polar scope.

I've looked into these alternatives for polar aligning but I'm hesitant to spend more right now as I'm just at the start of my astro journey. Already owning a laptop and a spare 70mm refractor, what would be the minimum I could spend on a webcam to have some success with SharpCap?

[AndyThilo]

Sharpcam uses your imaging camera I believe, I’ve never used it but heard good things. I bought a polemaster as I wanted precise alignment from the start. Less time I spend setting up, the more I can spend imaging. 

[knobby]

Sharpcap pro is £10/year and well worth it just for the polar align feature ! Not sure if it works with a DSLR but it uses your guidecam or main cam.

What do you have already ?

Edit - saw other posts, you have a Canon dslr, looking at this post https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/657429-how-to-use-sharpcap-with-a-dslr/

It's possible to use your Canon in Sharpcap ... But very difficult.

Edited January 11, 2020 by knobby
Added info

[knobby]

1 hour ago, CaptainShiznit said:

what would be the minimum I could spend on a webcam to have some success with SharpCap?

Keep an eye out for used equipment, astro gear is generally well looked after ...

https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=157240

£80

[CaptainShiznit]

3 hours ago, knobby said:

Keep an eye out for used equipment, astro gear is generally well looked after ...

https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=157240

£80

Cheers So it's out of the question to just buy a cheap standard webcam for sharpcap? I had a little read of the manual online and that's what this led me to believe.

[Anthonyexmouth]

+1 for sharpcap, it's just as accurate as a polemaster that is 27 times more expensive. Also, once you start using sharpcap you never have to get on your knees to look through the polar scope again. 

[Jiggy 67]

Are you intending to image or just visual?..I get what everyone is saying about Sharpcap, Polemaster etc but if you’re just starting out, you probably just want to observe, at least for a while, in which case I would not spend the money on any of these solutions. Polar alignment is easy through a polar scope especially if you use an app like PS Align Pro (I keep banging on about this app but I promise I don’t work for the developers) which has a daytime routine that gets you really close to Polaris without looking through the polar scope, you only need to spend 1 minutes on your knees to tweek it in the dark. You don’t need Sharpcap or anything like it for visual observation 

[CaptainShiznit]

I am actually intending to do imaging. I'm just trying to do all I can to minimise the learning curve when we finally get a clear night so I can give it a shot with as little frustration as possible

[knobby]

11 hours ago, CaptainShiznit said:

Cheers So it's out of the question to just buy a cheap standard webcam for sharpcap? I had a little read of the manual online and that's what this led me to believe.

If you can manage to attach a webcam to your focuser then it will work, Google diy webcam for astro imaging.

[AndyThilo]

If you want to start imaging then forget a webcam. Get a cheap secondhand Canon DSLR. I don't know what your budget is but you can get them from eBay ranging from £30 to £200. As long as it has live view (for focusing) and preferably a flip out screen it will be a great first step in to Astrophotography.

[CaptainShiznit]

28 minutes ago, AndyThilo said:

If you want to start imaging then forget a webcam. Get a cheap secondhand Canon DSLR. I don't know what your budget is but you can get them from eBay ranging from £30 to £200. As long as it has live view (for focusing) and preferably a flip out screen it will be a great first step in to Astrophotography.

I have a DSLR already. I was asking about webcams regarding their use with SharpCap for polar alignment

[AndyThilo]

Ah ok :), forget the webcam then. Try and get your DSLR running with Sharpcap. 

[knobby]

Just found this ... https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/662659-how-to-use-sharpcap-with-a-dslr-part-ii-jpg-files/ looks way easier so as long as you have a shortish focal length scope it's gotta be worth a bash. You can try using the latest of the version 2 sharpcaps as they have the static polar align for free but it kept crashing on my set up, but for free it's worth seeing if you can get everything connected and working before you shell out for the pro / stable version 3

[CaptainShiznit]

51 minutes ago, knobby said:

Just found this ... https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/662659-how-to-use-sharpcap-with-a-dslr-part-ii-jpg-files/ looks way easier so as long as you have a shortish focal length scope it's gotta be worth a bash. You can try using the latest of the version 2 sharpcaps as they have the static polar align for free but it kept crashing on my set up, but for free it's worth seeing if you can get everything connected and working before you shell out for the pro / stable version 3

Great stuff, cheers I'll definitely try this!

[cuivenion]

If you're on a tight budget try using the folder monitor option in Sharpcap with the polar align feature as outlined above. If you're going to be using a guiding set up anyway use a ZWO ASI224 (about £220) for the guide cam and a 9x50 finderscope with a suitable adapter.

I'd recommend the 224 because it's also an excellent planetary camera if you ever want to go in this direction and it's very sensitive for a colour camera. There are cheaper options as well such as the Altair GPCAM offerings. There are plenty of guidecams out there.

I'd advise against using a 640x480 webcam. Its likely that the webcam won't be able to expose for longer than 0.5s. Sharpcap polar algnment will be struggle under those conditions. I will admit I havn't used one of these webcams so maybe you'll be lucky and find one with long exposure. Guiding and polar alignment exposure lengths tend to be about 2s or longer.

One more bit of advise is to find as rigid and stable a mounting system for your guider as possible. The bracket that comes with the 9x50 finder is only useful for visual observing. I quite like the look of this package as an all in guidescope and mounting:

https://www.modernastronomy.com/shop/accessories/qhy-accessories/qhy-miniguidescope-kit/

It does depend on what focal length scope you want to guide though.

Edited January 12, 2020 by cuivenion

[Owmuchonomy]

Or you could save some time, effort and expense and use the polar alignment routine already built into the Synscan handset. It will also save you the back breaking exercise of using a polar scope.  From personal experience, the number of iterations required to get good alignment is reduced by ensuring the mount is level.

[cuivenion]

1 hour ago, Owmuchonomy said:

Or you could save some time, effort and expense and use the polar alignment routine already built into the Synscan handset. It will also save you the back breaking exercise of using a polar scope.  From personal experience, the number of iterations required to get good alignment is reduced by ensuring the mount is level.

I've always controlled the mount via my laptop so I wasn't aware the handset had a polar alignment routine, yeah that's definitely a good way to go. If he's guiding anyway then I'd recommend the Sharpcap method.

[CaptainShiznit]

3 hours ago, knobby said:

Just found this ... https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/662659-how-to-use-sharpcap-with-a-dslr-part-ii-jpg-files/ looks way easier so as long as you have a shortish focal length scope it's gotta be worth a bash. You can try using the latest of the version 2 sharpcaps as they have the static polar align for free but it kept crashing on my set up, but for free it's worth seeing if you can get everything connected and working before you shell out for the pro / stable version 3

Just had a go of this on my laptop and it appears to be working. Will give this a try on the next clear night 😃

Edited January 12, 2020 by CaptainShiznit

[CaptainShiznit]

2 hours ago, cuivenion said:

If you're on a tight budget try using the folder monitor option in Sharpcap with the polar align feature as outlined above. If you're going to be using a guiding set up anyway use a ZWO ASI224 (about £220) for the guide cam and a 9x50 finderscope with a suitable adapter.

I'd recommend the 224 because it's also an excellent planetary camera if you ever want to go in this direction and it's very sensitive for a colour camera. There are cheaper options as well such as the Altair GPCAM offerings. There are plenty of guidecams out there.

I'd advise against using a 640x480 webcam. Its likely that the webcam won't be able to expose for longer than 0.5s. Sharpcap polar algnment will be struggle under those conditions. I will admit I havn't used one of these webcams so maybe you'll be lucky and find one with long exposure. Guiding and polar alignment exposure lengths tend to be about 2s or longer.

One more bit of advise is to find as rigid and stable a mounting system for your guider as possible. The bracket that comes with the 9x50 finder is only useful for visual observing. I quite like the look of this package as an all in guidescope and mounting:

https://www.modernastronomy.com/shop/accessories/qhy-accessories/qhy-miniguidescope-kit/

It does depend on what focal length scope you want to guide though.

I think I'll definitely make a camera like that my next purchase as I would like to add guiding as well as try planetary stuff. Cheers!

[Owmuchonomy]

16 hours ago, cuivenion said:

I've always controlled the mount via my laptop so I wasn't aware the handset had a polar alignment routine, yeah that's definitely a good way to go. If he's guiding anyway then I'd recommend the Sharpcap method.

It surprises me how many don’t know or ignore it. It works very well, so well that I needed little adjustment using PhD2 tools to refine it for imaging.

[carastro]

I have never used the PA routine on the handset for polar alignment, but was aware of it being there.  I have a friend with bad scoliosis who would find bending and twisting to look through the polarscope extremely difficult and he has been using it for years.   

Carole