All sky Camera

[Nigella Bryant]

Hi all, I'm doing an all sky camera (more heath Robinson). Managed to scrape the clear plastic dome whilst drilling. I'm hoping it won't have any detrimental affect on performance but I'll have to see. Can always order a replacement if needed. Cost £50 excluding the camera. It'll be based on the Zwo Asi 224mc which I had hanging around. I've also got a Zwo120mm so not sure to use that instead. It'll be interchangeable anyway which I end up using. I'm finding it difficult to get hold of a reasonablely priced 180 degree lens at the moment so any suggestions would be much appreciated. I tidy things up when I seal the dome with clear cealent. Also I need a 15m length of usb3 cable for the 224mc as against usb2 for the old 120mm. What software are people running on Windows 10?

[DaveL59]

you might be able to polish the scratches out with something like a car headlight refurb kit, but then a new dome probably works out cheaper and won't result in any optical irregularities. Depends if the marks are in the visual line of sight vs the camera lens position. Defo worth taping over the dome next time, perhaps.

What are you planning to seal under the dome edge with? I used a nitrile wide flat washer which seemed to work well on my el-cheapo rig and means the dome is easily removable compared to silicone RTV. You do want to avoid capilliary action drawing water in under the edge tho but don't want the clamping force to be so great as to distort/crack the dome rim. Some stainless washers might help spread the load a little?

As for a lens, I think that's the harder part, what fitment is it, C/CS or M12? 
I guess lens speed is less of an issue given its an astro camera so can run slow exposure, but a decent F1.4-F2 can be pricey and you'd need to match against the sensor size if you want a full-360 with no clipping of 2 edges. I've seen fuji CS lenses come up but they're in the £90+ region. I guess you'd also need a lens with IRcut filter built in or you'll get some odd colour effects in daylight

[DaveL59]

actually thinking about it, if the scratches are light, then brasso might work just as well too

 

[Nigella Bryant]

20 minutes ago, DaveL59 said:

you might be able to polish the scratches out with something like a car headlight refurb kit, but then a new dome probably works out cheaper and won't result in any optical irregularities. Depends if the marks are in the visual line of sight vs the camera lens position. Defo worth taping over the dome next time, perhaps.

What are you planning to seal under the dome edge with? I used a nitrile wide flat washer which seemed to work well on my el-cheapo rig and means the dome is easily removable compared to silicone RTV. You do want to avoid capilliary action drawing water in under the edge tho but don't want the clamping force to be so great as to distort/crack the dome rim. Some stainless washers might help spread the load a little?

As for a lens, I think that's the harder part, what fitment is it, C/CS or M12? 
I guess lens speed is less of an issue given its an astro camera so can run slow exposure, but a decent F1.4-F2 can be pricey

Thanks Dave, I was thinking a clear outdoor/waterproof silicone cealent. Yeah, going to add stainless steel washers. Lens is going to be the difficult thing. I was thinking £50 tops, lol. Didn't think to cover the dome with something b4 drilling, yeah, dumb, newbie mistake at DIY astronomy. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Nigella Bryant

[DaveL59]

easily done, I'll admit I didn't either but luckily didn't make contact. My rig the lens is quite close to the dome itself so its only the top 1/3 that matters in terms of the view. Clear RTV will do ok just take care clamping the dome down. Removal later would need a craft knife under the dome edge probably. Also let it set and air well if poss before fitting the camera/lens to avoid any outgassing affecting the optics. Or try getting an RTV that's ok for optics use.

Re the lens, yeah they ain't cheap, I think Gina has the Fuji one on hers and tbh it's likely the best but are real pricey and IIRC CS mount not M12. I swapped the M12 for CS with switchable IRcut on the 5MP cctv module I'm using just to try a larger glass area but not sure it made a lot of difference. The hard bit is to get a fisheye lens that is F2 or faster that suits the sensor size, sadly there's few good choices and they're more expensive. The one I'm running at the mo is I think 2.1mm F1.8 and it seems to work ok but gives more like 150 degree rather than a full 180, so I run the camera inclined toward SE as that's gonna show a bit more of interest for my location. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by DaveL59

[Laurin Dave]

Hi Nigella..  just finishing one off myself..  it looks remarkably like yours!  I use the AllSkyeEye software, works really well and has loads of features.  I’m using the ZWO lens that came with the camera at the moment, seems ok for now but will be interested to see what lens recommendations are made.  I’ve put a heater in mine, dewed up quite quickly without, I had an unused ZWO Dew heater and it works a treat.

Dave

[DaveL59]

2 minutes ago, Laurin Dave said:

Hi Nigella..  just finishing one off myself..  it looks remarkably like yours!  I use the AllSkyeEye software, works really well and has loads of features.  I’m using the ZWO lens that came with the camera at the moment, seems ok for now but will be interested to see what lens recommendations are made.  I’ve put a heater in mine, dewed up quite quickly without, I had an unused ZWO Dew heater and it works a treat.

Dave

I guess then that the ZWO doesn't run too warm?

The IP CCTV module I use does so I've never had it dew up so far, only the first effort has had issues because a seal had failed but not got around to getting that apart as yet. If its dewing on the inside a couple silica gel sachets will help a lot too.

[DaveL59]

if you're happy to go less wide...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-7mm-CS-Mount-Fisheye-Fish-Eye-Ultra-Wide-Angle-GLASS-CCTV-1-3-Lens-F-1-1-4/382826414881

might work ok tho I can't vouch for FOV, this one likely is the best but as noted, expensive
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fujinon-1-4mm-f-1-8-Fisheye-lens-CS-Mount-DF1-4HB-L1-Ideal-for-All-Sky-Camera/123866962892?hash=item1cd70bdbcc:g:HAkAAOSwDuZdSr43

I'm assuming CS mounting but that's a guess on my part

 

[Nigella Bryant]

Brilliant peps, thanks for all the tips. I'll download the AllSkyEye this evening. Might try the lens that came with the camera but I think that is 150 degree's. It might be enough as my North horizon is none existent with monkey puzzle trees, etc. 

[DaveL59]

no harm in trying it out and see if its enough before spending extra  

[Nigella Bryant]

Another question. Instead of running usb cable's can I use a raspberry pi3 and use WiFi or Bluetooth with the zwo camera's. 

[Gina]

I got one of those Fujinon fish-eye lenses from another member and it was superb until the mast it was on fell down and the lens caught a flagstone and broke!  I ordered what seemed like a replacement for around £70 as I recall, but it was defective with tadpole shaped stars around the edge.  That was from DNS Optical.  I emailed them but got no reply.  Whether the ones they are now selling at £140 are any better I have no idea.  These lenses are C mount as I recall (cold be CS - same size thread but different back focus) but have no means of focussing.  That was quite a big problem.

I am now using a fish-eye lens from Modern Astronomy.  This works well with the ASI 178 camera and gives 180° coverage just.  It says it gives that with 1/3" sensors but for all round coverage it needs a 1/2" sensor.

[Gina]

11 minutes ago, Nigella Bryant said:

Another question. Instead of running usb cable's can I use a raspberry pi3 and use WiFi or Bluetooth with the zwo camera's. 

I use a Raspberry Pi 3 and WiFi - works well.  RPi in same case as camera so only power cable to connect.

[Nigella Bryant]

6 minutes ago, Gina said:

I use a Raspberry Pi 3 and WiFi - works well.  RPi in same case as camera so only power cable to connect.

Thanks Gina, think I'll go the pi route then. 

[MilwaukeeLion]

14 minutes ago, Nigella Bryant said:

Another question. Instead of running usb cable's can I use a raspberry pi3 and use WiFi or Bluetooth with the zwo camera's. 

Nice all sky set up there, I run my 120mm-all sky via wifi on stick pc with fire capture on it to laptop inside via windows remote connect.  What I like about fire capture time lapse mode is will turn off pc when its finished / before dawn.  So for meteor shower evenings I connect and watch live while it captures or disconnect while it captures, watch tv, connect again, disconnect, forget about it go to bed since it will shut itself down.  

[Gina]

3 minutes ago, Nigella Bryant said:

Thanks Gina, think I'll go the pi route then. 

I use KStars/Ekos/INDI with INDI drivers and server on the RPi ands KStars/Ekos on my main computer indoors.

[Nigella Bryant]

19 minutes ago, Gina said:

I use a Raspberry Pi 3 and WiFi - works well.  RPi in same case as camera so only power cable to connect.

Thanks Gina, think I'll go the pi route then. Can the rpi3 be used with windows 10pc? I'm not that well versed in programming. Is it just a question of plugging in to the pi and picking up on a new network on the windows pc? Sorry for all the dumb questions. Just getting my head around running the AllSkyCamera from my pc. 

[CedricTheBrave]

i run mine on an Rpi4 with the thomas Jacquin software build found on github

it uploads to my website automatically and appears to work well.

you can access it through vnc but you will need to enable this when you first set up the rpi

[Gina]

1 hour ago, Nigella Bryant said:

Thanks Gina, think I'll go the pi route then. Can the rpi3 be used with windows 10pc? I'm not that well versed in programming. Is it just a question of plugging in to the pi and picking up on a new network on the windows pc? Sorry for all the dumb questions. Just getting my head around running the AllSkyCamera from my pc. 

The RPi runs Linux so you need Linux software to run on it.  Fortunately there is step by step instructions to do this by just copy and paste plus running some control software on the RPi with keyboard, mouse and HDMI display.  Once everything is set up you no longer need all that extra equipment and can run everything over WiFi.  KStars/Ekos will run on Linux, Windows or Mac OS.  But there's also other software you can use.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Gina

[AngryDonkey]

On 05/01/2020 at 19:26, Nigella Bryant said:

What software are people running on Windows 10?

Looks like you are going down the RPi route which is a good option. If for some reason you decide to go back to Windows 10 then AllSkEye is probably your best bet (I'm biased 🙂): https://www.allskeye.com/ 

Edited January 7, 2020 by AngryDonkey

[Nigella Bryant]

Okay, so decided to go the windows route and use allsky software. Decided to use my old Zwo Asi 120mm and USB 2 connection to laptop as the simplest route. I'd ordered a new mono zwo asi usb3 camera for my solar imaging so it made sense to make use of the old usb2 camera. Now all I have to do is put it all together now I have all the bit's in place. 

[Nigella Bryant]

A little bit more progress after life got in the way. Bolted and sealed dome and placed fan in box ready for camera installation tomorrow. Going to let the silicone dry before putting camera inside. Then I need to trail the USB cable's through the loft space. 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Nigella Bryant
Another pic added

[Peter Drew]

I would try the unit out first before considering whether it would be worth replacing the scratched dome.  Polishing out a scratch would require quite a bit of material loss in the area and would likely introduce optical distortions.     🙂

[Nigella Bryant]

Just now, Peter Drew said:

I would try the unit out first before considering whether it would be worth replacing the scratched dome.  Polishing out a scratch would require quite a bit of material loss in the area and would likely introduce optical distortions.     🙂

Yeah, I plan on trying it out first, hopefully it'll be OK. Some clear skies tomorrow evening so hopefully it'll be ready to test. Watch this space, lol. 

[Nigella Bryant]

Okay, tested this evening and there is some reflection, mark caused by the drill to the left of the image. Pleased that it's picking up quite a few stars and that the 10m run on the usb seems to be OK. Fan works too to keep things clear. So pleased with the way it's going but needs tweaks re: the dome. Might try and mount the camera outside the box under the dome to bring it closet to the top of the dome to see if this clears the distortions and marks I made drilling. Attacked a just a couple of quick single images taken with the allskybox. Pleased with the depth of image and sure it'll pick up meteors. I also think I need to tweak the focus slightly.

Edited January 18, 2020 by Nigella Bryant