Heq5 250pds

[James82]

Hi I’m only a back garden observer I currently use a 200p explorer although fantastic next year I want to upgrade to a heq5 pro and then purchase the 250pds I’m not to worried about guide scopes and stuff Bit of visual if I did put a camera it would be basic! I don’t like seeing decent scopes covered in wires! I’m guessing the weight would be ok for this? Many thanks James 

[Tommohawk]

The payload for the HEQ5 is given as 15kg, and the PDS250 is pretty much that weight I think

The mount will handle it, but you'll be on the limit and may need an extra weight to balance. I use a 250 Quattro on an HEQ5 but from memory I think I need an extra weight.

[James82]

Any good for visual though thought it was purely for imaging! 

[Craney]

hmmm.... I would suspect a 10" Newt on a HEq5  would give the mount a few issues in terms of  payload.    Such a big volume scope does also acts like a sail in any breeze or gust  as well, especially if you attach it via a thin Vixen style  dovetail....   there is a sizable turning force operating on the saddle.

Imaging  might  result in a  few shaky subs. if you push the exposure time.    

[Tommohawk]

14 hours ago, James82 said:

Any good for visual though thought it was purely for imaging! 

Well I guess its maybe intended for imaging, but fast for imaging means fast (brighter) for visual too. TBH I wasnt really suggesting the Quattro as an alternative, its just that I happen to have one so know more or less how it works on an HEQ5. It's slightly shorter than the equivalent 250PDS so maybe bit easier on the mount though.

All depends what you want to achieve. The greater aperture of the 250 is better for planetary resolution, but if you're doing mostly DSO's this isn't really much help. I use the Quattro for both planetary (with a x5 powermate) and short exposure (CMOS) DSO stuff. But TBH it's not a whole lot better than my 200PDS. 

[carastro]

I would have thought an NEQ6 more appropriate for a 250PDS for imaging.

Carole 

[James82]

There comes the price with the eq6 I’m more visually on the planets Uranus and Neptune interest me with the correct filters! I did read some armature observers seen the rings of Uranus but this odd world on its side is fascinating although it only looks small in my 200 newt 

[RolandKol]

17 hours ago, James82 said:

Hi I’m only a back garden observer I currently use a 200p explorer although fantastic next year I want to upgrade to a heq5 pro and then purchase the 250pds I’m not to worried about guide scopes and stuff Bit of visual if I did put a camera it would be basic! I don’t like seeing decent scopes covered in wires! I’m guessing the weight would be ok for this? Many thanks James 

Not sure about visual, 

but with any basic cam, - it will not work with a bit longer exposures.... You may get away with planetary imaging... but not DSO, as mount will stuggle to track properly, 

plus... such a big scope will catch wind quite easy...

Also...

keep in mind... once you place a "basic" cam on... you will be doomed...

You will most likely will get sucked into that "black hole of astrophotography" without any chance to escape....  
HEQ5, in this case, is for 130PDS max... even 200P is a bit too large for HEQ5 if AP way is chosen.

In your case, I would stay with 200P and as @carastro suggested,  would check for NEQ6, - the second hand ones can be realitively cheap.
 

Edited December 21, 2019 by RolandKol

[James82]

I was thinking that myself I don’t find eBay  to cheap tbh I will always look though on various sites even part exchange my own eq5 syn scan! 

Edited December 21, 2019 by James82

[RolandKol]

20 minutes ago, James82 said:

I was thinking that myself I don’t find eBay  to cheap tbh I will always look though on various sites even part exchange my own eq5 syn scan! 

keep an eye on https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/

it does have NEQ6 listings quite often

[Starlight 1]

20 hours ago, Tommohawk said:

The payload for the HEQ5 is given as 15kg, and the PDS250 is pretty much that weight I think

The mount will handle it, but you'll be on the limit and may need an extra weight to balance. I use a 250 Quattro on an HEQ5 but from memory I think I need an extra weight.

Spot on, been there not only a extra weight a long bar as well ,and it will not hold in any wind at all ,  Heq5 and PDS 250 is a pain you can do with out.

[Tommohawk]

42 minutes ago, RolandKol said:

keep an eye on https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/

it does have NEQ6 listings quite often

Yes.... and there is classified section here on SGL too.

[Tommohawk]

3 hours ago, James82 said:

There comes the price with the eq6 I’m more visually on the planets Uranus and Neptune interest me with the correct filters! I did read some armature observers seen the rings of Uranus but this odd world on its side is fascinating although it only looks small in my 200 newt 

Since you mention Uranus, and in defence of the HEQ5 with a 10" scope, this was done with my Quattro 10S (+5x powermate) on the HEQ5. Uranus + 4 moons, done with  ASI290MM. It really needs to be redone with Uranus itself on a shorter exposure. But I warn you  working at this magnification is not for the faint hearted! 

Also as Roland said, once you go down the imaging route, you can wave goodbye to any kind of normal life... or bank balance!

 

[James82]

That’s a great pic mate got any more like that  does an ir pass filter do anything for Uranus 

[Tommohawk]

3 minutes ago, James82 said:

That’s a great pic mate got any more like that  does an ir pass filter do anything for Uranus 

Thanks. That image was done as mono only with a red filter just too prevent to much smearing - I believe IR pass filter like 685 is preferred. I can't claim to be an expert on Uranus at all though - this is the only image I've done.

However this guy knows a thing or two about it, and his article is very informative. Remember though you will need some serious extra magnification to get anywhere near this! His were done with a C14 and a X2 powermate I think -  so 7820mm equivalent focal length.

[GTom]

On 21/12/2019 at 19:49, Tommohawk said:

Since you mention Uranus, and in defence of the HEQ5 with a 10" scope, this was done with my Quattro 10S (+5x powermate) on the HEQ5. Uranus + 4 moons, done with  ASI290MM. It really needs to be redone with Uranus itself on a shorter exposure. But I warn you  working at this magnification is not for the faint hearted! 

Also as Roland said, once you go down the imaging route, you can wave goodbye to any kind of normal life... or bank balance!

 

Have you tried deep sky with the combo? I have a heq5 currently carrying a tiny 150p but thinking about adding a larger Newt too

[Tommohawk]

14 hours ago, GTom said:

Have you tried deep sky with the combo? I have a heq5 currently carrying a tiny 150p but thinking about adding a larger Newt too

Hmm - gotta think back a way!

Deep sky with HEQ5 + 10" Quattro + 5x powermate is a non-starter. Well, I say that, I did try it for a laugh once on Owl nebula - rough image below. I cant recall the settings and didn't do a write-up, so no idea how I did it! Hmmm - I cant load the image - no idea why. Tried PNG and JPG - anyhow, youre not missing much!

HEQ5 + Quattro 10" is just doable - but frankly not productive. Aside from the weight issues, you need an F4 coma corrector. My SW coma corrector works remarkably well on the F5 200PDS, but remarkably badly on the F4 Quattro.

I started with a 150p, then got a 200p, then experimented with the  250 Quattro for a while for both faster deep sky work, and better resolution planetary coupled with the powermate. My conclusion is that the 250 is too heavy on the HEQ5, and image quality suffers as a result - the 200 gives consistently better results. In addition, the F4 mirror is probably inferior optically with more aberrations. Consequently the added aperture gave no real benefit for planetary work either. 

Some folk would say even the 200PDS is too much for the HEQ5 - but I have lots of very pleasing images taken with this combo with exposures up to 10 minutes. Mine has a Rowan belt conversion and has been stripped and tuned to within an inch of it's life though. The 200P has also given some super planetary results and seems to be the sweet spot - but maybe my mirror is exceptionally good.

Edit - I'm only considering all this from an imaging perspective BTW!

Edited July 11 by Tommohawk

[GTom]

Many thanks! Thought the f4 Quattro 150p's native coma corrector is OK for larger models too...

I like the 150p because it's super transportable, fits in a premium cabin bag, definitely keeping it. I'd love to get a bigger brother, but the 200 is just too little difference in diameter to justify the two scopes.

My primary targets would be galaxies with it, and being seriously cloud restricted, fast aperture is a godsend up here.

[Tommohawk]

TBH I didn't think there was a "native" coma corrector, but it looks like the 150 quattro does routinely ship with an f4 corrector. And if that's the same CC that sells separately for £269 it makes the package ridiculously good value!

Worth noting that an F5 reflector can use the "ordinary" skywatcher CC, which reduces by 0.9, giving F4.5. 

If your mostly after galaxies, given that most of them are relatively small, are you maybe better with an SCT, maybe a Celestron C8... although that's obviously rather slower. 

Edited July 11 by Tommohawk

[GTom]

Indeed, sct's would give the detail but I don't think I can provide them with enough time on this climate . 10 hours here could mean half a year waiting. Hyperstar is of course the opposite, that is too fast too short too expensive

The Quattro 150p ships with a "modified aplanatic" corrector, whatever that means... Reduction ratio 0.86x, which is great for photon hunting. The scope is f4 and IIRC others with large sensors reported decent edges when reduced to f/3.45. Great little scope indeed!

So far haven't heard if anyone migrated that corrector to a larger Newt, a Quattro 250p reduced to f/3.45 would be a fantastic light bucket. If the weather clears, I am lucky to have great, Bortle 2 skies (B1 would require a much longer drive and a risk that it will be cloudy) and I am shooting on a small sensor (533M) - the corrector doesn't necessarily have to provide perfect APSc borders...

Edited July 11 by GTom

[bosun21]

4 hours ago, GTom said:

Indeed, sct's would give the detail but I don't think I can provide them with enough time on this climate . 10 hours here could mean half a year waiting. Hyperstar is of course the opposite, that is too fast too short too expensive

The Quattro 150p ships with a "modified aplanatic" corrector, whatever that means... Reduction ratio 0.86x, which is great for photon hunting. The scope is f4 and IIRC others with large sensors reported decent edges when reduced to f/3.45. Great little scope indeed!

So far haven't heard if anyone migrated that corrector to a larger Newt, a Quattro 250p reduced to f/3.45 would be a fantastic light bucket. If the weather clears, I am lucky to have great, Bortle 2 skies (B1 would require a much longer drive and a risk that it will be cloudy) and I am shooting on a small sensor (533M) - the corrector doesn't necessarily have to provide perfect APSc borders...

An SCT with a .63x reducer takes the scope down to F6.3 while still having a decent focal length for galaxies.

[GTom]

3 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

An SCT with a .63x reducer takes the scope down to F6.3 while still having a decent focal length for galaxies.

I know. Still, f/6.3 needs 3x the exposure time for nebulous objects, compared to my current f/3.45.

Regarding detail, I live near sea level & don't expect better than 1.5" seeings on average. That means a 10" Newt at the same speed (FL: 876mm, pixels 3.76µm) would be slightly better than 1:1 sampled.