Avalon Linear or Mesu 200

[Jose Ignacio]

Hello,

I finally decided that I need a better mount. I think that the first advice I got when starting astrophotography was that the mount was the most important part of the equipment, but I somehow had to learn it the hard way.

I use three different rigs: 85 mm triplet, 120 mm triplet and 8 inches SCT. So, with cameras, filterwheels and Moonlite focusers and other accesories each rig is well bellow the 15 kg.

I don’t have an observatory, so I started looking for a portable premium mount. I decided not to go for American brands because they are much more expensive than the European ones. And living in Europe I prefer being close to the manufacturer, just in case.

The linear seemed to be a winner, it’s light, it has a great reputation and it is beautifull. I was ready to pull the trigger and... I read a thread comparing it to the Mesu 200.

It is clear to me that the Mesu is the better one.But I don’t need the payload capacity of the Mesu and  I’d rather get a light mount to set up quickly when suddenly the skies clear.

Then again, it just doesn’t make sense to me that a mount like the Mesu is just 20% more expensive than the Linear. It really seems a fantastic deal to me.

So now I’m in the situation where I’ve convinced myself that it is better to be overmounted for a few years and get the mount I will probably keep for life. Does it make sense?

Thanks in advance for your opinions,

 

Jose

[Davey-T]

Worth considering for really portable and no weights.

Dave

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/rainbow-astro-mounts/rainbow-astro-rst-135-mount.html

[steppenwolf]

44 minutes ago, Jose Ignacio said:

So now I’m in the situation where I’ve convinced myself that it is better to be overmounted for a few years and get the mount I will probably keep for life. Does it make sense?

To be honest, yes it does make sense to be over-mounted - a Mesu would be a keeper for life!

[Jose Ignacio]

Thanks Dave and Steve,

It is a difficult decision. There are very good mounts that are a perfect match for my needs....and then there´s the MESU. Probably like shooting flies with a cannon, but what a cannon 😁.

And Steve, I read "making every photon count" and to me it is the best introduction to AP out there. Thanks

[Skipper Billy]

Hello Jose.

I have owned both mounts and you wouldn't be disappointed with either of them - they are both superb.

Aesthetically they are very different - the Linear is beautiful Italian styling - the Mesu is agricultural brutalism - think Miss World v Mr Universe 😉 

Performance wise - not much to choose between them - in decent seeing both will easily guide at well below 0.5" RMS

Weight - lets call it transportability as weight is only one issue - the Linear is very portable - easy to carry and light. The Mesu I would say is not really portable - partly because of its weight but also its a very awkward shape to carry safely.

The big differentiator is carrying capacity.

If you will NEVER need the Mesus carrying capacity I would choose the Linear.  I only upgraded to a Mesu as I built an observatory.

Both are great mounts. There are some photos of both mounts here. In fact you can see my mount history - HEQ5, AZ-EQ6-GT, Linear, Mesu. I would have saved a lot of money and suffered less pain by getting either the Linear or Mesu to start with! 

[vlaiv]

This one is so easy  - Mesu 200 of course

 

[david_taurus83]

11 hours ago, Davey-T said:

Worth considering for really portable and no weights.

Dave

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/rainbow-astro-mounts/rainbow-astro-rst-135-mount.html

Are there any reviews or opinions for this mount?

[steppenwolf]

10 hours ago, Jose Ignacio said:

And Steve, I read "making every photon count" and to me it is the best introduction to AP out there. Thanks

Thank you, that's very good of you to say.

10 hours ago, Skipper Billy said:

Weight - lets call it transportability as weight is only one issue - the Linear is very portable - easy to carry and light. The Mesu I would say is not really portable - partly because of its weight but also its a very awkward shape to carry safely.

The big differentiator is carrying capacity.

If you will NEVER need the Mesus carrying capacity I would choose the Linear.  I only upgraded to a Mesu as I built an observatory.

I think this is the cruncher, really and I can confirm that my version of the mount is indeed an awkward shape to carry.

[Jose Ignacio]

Skipper Billy, vlaiv, Steve,

Thankyou for your comments! 

I cannot say that I will never ever need the carrying capacity of the Mesu. But I am pretty sure I won´t go bigger than the Esprit 120 on a refractor and even if I decide to get an 11 inch SCT I´d still be below ther Linear´s capacity. So the only way I would need (vs want) the Mesu is if I want to mount a couple of OTA´s together, and that will only happen if I get an observatory. And as I cannot hide the observatory from my wife, it is a no go 😀. 

The thing about the Linear that set off the alarms was some comment on tracking under windy conditions. Where I live we have a lot of wind and not a lot of clear nights, so I want to maximize the opportunities for imaging. It is not that I image with a lot of wind, but it is normal to have 6-7 miles per hour winds on clear nights. Would that be a problem? I read on Avalon´s website that the toothed belts have steel strands in them to avoid deformation and elongation. Should this address the problem?

Thanks again for your help,

Jose

 

[Davey-T]

4 hours ago, david_taurus83 said:

Are there any reviews or opinions for this mount?

That's my question as well, saw one at IAS and it looked ideal for transporting to dark sites, haven't seen anyone on here mention buying one, might have to be my Christmas present to myself 

Confusing info on FLO says no counterweights required then lists them as optional extra 

Dave 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Davey-T

[The Admiral]

10 hours ago, david_taurus83 said:

Are there any reviews or opinions for this mount?

There are several threads on CN. Early days perhaps. Apparently it needs to be guided.

Ian

[The Admiral]

7 hours ago, Davey-T said:

Confusing info on FLO says no counterweights required then lists them as optional extra 

So far as I understand, the drive mechanism is quite able to cope without the kit being balanced, and the weights are more with an eye to preventing the tripod tipping over (especially as they are toting the mount for portable use with relatively light weight tripods).

If Father Christmas is kind to you, then please be sure to review it!

Ian

Edited December 16, 2019 by The Admiral

[R26 oldtimer]

9 hours ago, Jose Ignacio said:

So the only way I would need (vs want) the Mesu is if I want to mount a couple of OTA´s together, and that will only happen if I get an observatory. And as I cannot hide the observatory from my wife, it is a no go 😀. 

No, no, no. You are not thinking right. You should get the Mesu, so you'll have to get an obsy, and then there is no reason not to make it a triple rig by getting a couple of more scopes. 😋

Joking aside, if you're at the point of comparing those two mounts, then go for the best, or you will always wonder

 

[dannybgoode]

8 hours ago, Davey-T said:

That's my question as well, saw one at IAS and it looked ideal for transporting to dark sites, haven't seen anyone on here mention buying one, might have to be my Christmas present to myself 

Confusing info on FLO says no counterweights required then lists them as optional extra 

Dave 

According to the spec on the FLO the carrying capacity is even higher with a counter weight fitted. 
 

I too would be interested in some user feedback. Way out of budget at the moment but makes a very interesting proposition for a true portable AP rig that’s not limited in what scopes it can handle. 

[Skipper Billy]

10 hours ago, Jose Ignacio said:

The thing about the Linear that set off the alarms was some comment on tracking under windy conditions. Where I live we have a lot of wind and not a lot of clear nights, so I want to maximize the opportunities for imaging. It is not that I image with a lot of wind, but it is normal to have 6-7 miles per hour winds on clear nights. Would that be a problem? I read on Avalon´s website that the toothed belts have steel strands in them to avoid deformation and elongation. Should this address the problem?

You will see the gusts of wind on the guiding trace but the images produced are always a lot better than the guide graph would suggest they might be.  There is very little give in the belts - you really have to tug hard to feel any give.  They are very similar to cam belts in a car engine - they are tough!!!

I too am in a windy spot and it really wasn't an issue for the linear. Not an issue for the Mesu either. I am not helping am I !!

[sloz1664]

I have the Avalon Linear Reverse and love it. Once set-up and balanced it will track superbly. It makes me smile when I see PHD2 guiding a 1 sec and the graph looking like the Himalayas, but the finished subs having nice tight round stars. If you don't need the extra weight, and I would think very carefully on this point before making your mind up. If not, choose the Avalon.

Steve 

[Jose Ignacio]

I like your perspective R26 oldtimer 😀

11 hours ago, R26 oldtimer said:

No, no, no. You are not thinking right. You should get the Mesu, so you'll have to get an obsy, and then there is no reason not to make it a triple rig by getting a couple of more scopes. 😋

Joking aside, if you're at the point of comparing those two mounts, then go for the best, or you will always wonder

 

Skipper Billy and sloz1664, thanks a lot for your first hand experience with the Linear. I called Avalon Instruments yesterday and they said they haven´t had complains about how the mount behaves in moderare wind conditions, but it is always reassuring to learn from experienced users.

I exchanged some emails with Lucas Mesu and he brought up that the new Mesu 200 MKII´s head is 10 kg lighter than the MKI. A 17 kg mount head with 100 kg load capacity. If you compare it price-wise with equivalent capacity premium mounts, it seems like a bargain to me.

My only concern with the new version of the Mesu would be ease of polar alignment. If I have to set up every night then I need to be able to get a good Polar Alignment in a reasonable amount of time. So, if there are any early adopters of the new mount with a non permanent setup it would be great to hear their perspective on this.

Difficult decision indeed....

[tomato]

I used to set up and take down a Mesu Mk 1 every session, and the weight was an issue, sooner or later I would have dropped it, that’s why it is now in a permanent observatory. As you say the the Mk 2 is some 10 kg lighter which helps a lot but it does not have the alt/az adjustments like the Mk 1 so aligning it each time could be a pain. Although an observatory is not an option, could you have a permanent pier for the mount?

If you are an imager, it is very easy to eat into a mount’s carrying capacity...

[sloz1664]

1 hour ago, Jose Ignacio said:

I like your perspective R26 oldtimer 😀

Skipper Billy and sloz1664, thanks a lot for your first hand experience with the Linear. I called Avalon Instruments yesterday and they said they haven´t had complains about how the mount behaves in moderare wind conditions, but it is always reassuring to learn from experienced users.

I exchanged some emails with Lucas Mesu and he brought up that the new Mesu 200 MKII´s head is 10 kg lighter than the MKI. A 17 kg mount head with 100 kg load capacity. If you compare it price-wise with equivalent capacity premium mounts, it seems like a bargain to me.

My only concern with the new version of the Mesu would be ease of polar alignment. If I have to set up every night then I need to be able to get a good Polar Alignment in a reasonable amount of time. So, if there are any early adopters of the new mount with a non permanent setup it would be great to hear their perspective on this.

Difficult decision indeed....

Not mount related. But if one of your concerns is regarding ease of polar alignment, have a look at the QHY PoleMaster it's simple and, more importantly, quick in getting you polar aligned.

Steve

Edited December 17, 2019 by sloz1664

[Hallingskies]

I have Skipper Billy’s old Avalon and have been very pleased with it so far.  Although I have it permanently set up, it is so light and compact that I would imagine it would be superb for a mobile set-up, certainly much more so then my old EQ6. My version also runs under EQMOD as an added bonus -  not sure if Avalon’s latest mounts do.  Don’t know if it is anything to do with the mount, but (touch wood!) pointing accuracy is also superb.  Objects land on my ATIK 460 chip first time, every time, even after a meridian flip.  Who needs plate-solving?

Balancing is absolutely critical to get the best out of it though. It also seems to react sharply to poor seeing, although longer guide exposures help to damp that down.  It has to be a bad night to get poor stars, though.

The Mesus are superb bits of engineering but are big old lumps of metal (don’t know what the new Mk2s are like).  It seems some folk here have the upper body strength and strong backs to lug them around as mobiles, but they really have to be considered as observatory-based kit I think.

Just one other (probably daft) point.  The Avalon mounts, with matching Primaluce tube rings and dove tails, are things of beauty. I had mine set up indoors for a while just to get everything running, and I simply enjoyed looking at it.  It’s certainly a display piece that you won’t mind having around when you aren’t using it!

[Skipper Billy]

2 hours ago, Hallingskies said:

I have Skipper Billy’s old Avalon

Glad to hear she is behaving herself!

At the OP - if portability is a deal breaker then unless you are big strapping Viking build than I think the Linear would be most suitable. If/when you build an observatory you could pop a Mesu in and have the Linear as a mobile rig!

[Jose Ignacio]

Hello,

Thanks tomato for your input. It is precisely the Alt/Az adjustments that worry me. A pier could be a possibility, but I don´t know how would I feel about leaving the mount outside -even with a cover- for long periods of time.

Yes Steve, I use the Polemaster today and I like it very much, but it is rather the manipulation of the Alt/Az screws that worries me.

Skipper Billy, I am more of the short spanish kind of complexion 😂. The 17 kgs don´t scare me, but fighting in the cold night with Alt/Az adjustments that are only meant to be manipulated every now and then...I´d rather not do that.

I think I´m going to try to contact some of the few MKII users out there to learn about their first hand experience with the new mount and make it a 2020 project rather than a 2019 one.

It is great to get all your input and I thank you a lot for that.

[Jose Ignacio]

Hello Hallingskies,

The Avalon Linear is surely a beauty. I also have primalucelab rings and dovetail bars, so it would look perfect with my rigs. 

I think the new one don´t come with EQMOD any more. But I´m not currently using EQMOD, so I would not miss anything, although I might not be having access to something very good.

It is good to hear that it performs so well. It surely is a great mount. the only reason I am considering the Mesu is that I believe you get so much more for the extra money. But it clearly is not meant to be portable. So it all boils down to a compromise between portability and tracking/load capacity. It would not make sense to have a great piece of equipment that you don´t use because it is not practical.

So I´ll give it some more thought before I decide either way.

Thanks a lot for your help.

[Hallingskies]

37 minutes ago, Jose Ignacio said:

Hello Hallingskies,

The Avalon Linear is surely a beauty. I also have primalucelab rings and dovetail bars, so it would look perfect with my rigs. 

I think the new one don´t come with EQMOD any more. But I´m not currently using EQMOD, so I would not miss anything, although I might not be having access to something very good.

It is good to hear that it performs so well. It surely is a great mount. the only reason I am considering the Mesu is that I believe you get so much more for the extra money. But it clearly is not meant to be portable. So it all boils down to a compromise between portability and tracking/load capacity. It would not make sense to have a great piece of equipment that you don´t use because it is not practical.

So I´ll give it some more thought before I decide either way.

Thanks a lot for your help.

Jose: you seem to be asking all the right questions and I think you can’t go wrong with either mount.  The portability would favour the Avalon (and the alt-az adjustments are really easy - something else to consider if you have to polar align each time) but from the one Mesu I have seen I am really impressed with its quality.  It is really solid and stiff.  There is absolutely no free movement in it whatsoever.  It’s good that you have such a difficult decision to make!

[Jose Ignacio]

Thanks for the advice Halingskies. I will ruminate this over the holidays and try to take the most rational decision