Baader Hyperion

[Gonko]

So on the quest to upgrade to a nice set of EP's, I've been looking at the Hyperion starter kit, 4ep's and the case. 

Has anyone experience with these?

From what I am reading, they are good in F7 and slower scopes. My Dob is F5.9....

Or, can anyone reccommend a decent EP that will be good in scopes around F6. 

I also wear glasses due to astigmatism, so good eye relief is a must.

I have seen reviews on the BST Starguiders, Baader Hyperions and the ES 62degree range.

Again a mixed bag with each scope depending on the scope and so on. I am left even more confused 😳

[NGC 1502]

I’ve owned the Hyperion 8mm & 5mm.   I found them much better than some have suggested when using them in my 8” f6 Newtonian.  Stars were sharp across most of the field of view, and the 20mm eyerelief very comfortable.  You have to pay significantly more to buy better performance.   Recommended with f6 or slower unless you wish to pay premium prices.  Probably best to take advice from as many places as you can, bearing in mind others may quite genuinely have differing opinions.   Please remember l’ve only owned the 8mm & 5mm. 

Of course second hand premium eyepieces can be a viable option.

Ed.

[Greymouser]

I own the 10 mm and to be honest I am not that impressed with it, finding the 10mm Baader Claasic Ortho better. Others disagree but the Baader Orthos come highly recommended by many, it won't be long before I get another. However I also have two of the ES 62 degree eyepieces and can say these are wonderful, my most used eyepieces, others of those are on the horizon soon. My favourite is the Baader Morpheus, of which I have one, the 12.5, but they are a lot more expensive. Other peoples mileage may vary, as some say on here...

[Rob Sellent]

Depending on one's budget, Vixen's SLVs, Baader's Morpheus, TeleVue's Delites and Delos and Pentax's XWs all spring to mind.

[Louis D]

It really depends on the focal length.  I find the 9mm and below Meade HD-60 and Starguiders to be very good.  The 12mm are decent, and the 15mm/18mm ones are just so-so.  The 25mm versions are a mixed bag.  The Meade is better corrected, but the Starguider isn't bad.  The HD-60s in general have better eye relief than the Starguiders due to their eye cup design.

I don't know what to recommend at 13mm to 20mm with long eye relief and good correction with a 60 to 70 degree field of view at a bargain price.  I've used Astro-Tech AF70, Morpheus, Delos, Pentax XL, Nagler T4, and Explore Scientific 92 eyepieces in this range.  The ES-92 rule, but are heavy, large, and expensive.

At 22mm, I would recommend the various 70 degree 2" versions sold under Astro-Tech AF70, Olivon 70, Omegon Redline SW, Celestron Ultima LX, etc.  It shows more true field than any 1.25" eyepiece.  However, I would not recommend the shorter focal lengths as more and more edge aberrations creep in the shorter you go, kind of the opposite of the HD-60 and Starguider lines.  The 17mm is still passable, but not great.  Perhaps if bought used for $70, it could be recommended.

At 30mm, I would recommend the APM Ultra Flat Field or its equivalent from other brands.  It is worth the money.  The 24mm APM UFF is decent, but not worth the price.  The 22mm AF70 type is far superior to it in side by side comparisons.

Avoid the 35mm Aero ED since it does not have enough eye relief for eyeglass users.  If the eye lens hadn't been so recessed, it might be a gem for eyeglass wearers.

The 40mm Maxvision SWA was a great deal, but they seem to be sold out now.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Louis D

[cletrac1922]

I have SW 10" flex tube dob, F4.7, and out couple of times per month doing presentations in primary schools and scout groups with my club

I use primarily TeleVue 15mm and 17mm wide angle eyepieces

Find with both eyepieces, give good eye relief, and able to see rings of saturn, bands and spot on jupiter, as well as moons around jupiter

Ideal also for other DSO objects such as Jewel Box, Orion Nebula

John

[joe aguiar]

The badder hyperion are pretty good ep they are almost $200 ep b4 taxes tho. these are on sale now at $155 so about $30 off each

The Meade HD 60 are also good and I keep seeing the 6.5mm on Amazon for like $98 which is very good.

Joejaguar 

Edited December 9, 2019 by joe aguiar

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, cletrac1922 said:

I use primarily TeleVue 15mm and 17mm wide angle eyepieces

Which TV eyepieces would these be?  The discontinued 15mm Panoptic and 17mm NT4?  Did the original TV Wide Angle line come in 15mm and 17mm focal lengths?  Regardless, probably not great for eyeglass wearers or for those on budget.

[Gonko]

OK - So I went ahead and ordered the Baader Hyperion starter set from FLO. 

It includes 5/10/17/24 giving me 50x/70x/100x/240x.

Does this seem like a decent "spread"?

I've also got 2 cheap barlows 2x and 3x....which leads me to a question.....will the EP's still perform good barlowed with a "cheapish Barlow?

If so, I would have

50x/70x/100x/140x/150x/200x/210x/240x/300x/480x/720x   >>>Assuming the barlows quality is up to par?

Edited December 10, 2019 by Gonko
Edit text.

[joe aguiar]

the power spread seems decent u may need 1 more highter power this also depends on your scope and focal length, since I cant see what scope/scopes u have hard to tell if u need more.

NO don't use a cheap barlow with good eps, its just gonna lower the quality of the image .

its almost like you could have just bought cheap $30 eps then if you use that barlow

forget the 480x and 720x powers

joe

Edited December 10, 2019 by joe aguiar

[Rob Sellent]

They are good eyepieces. Personally, I would not have bought them for use in a fast scope (>f6) but they will be fine and will only reveal astigmatism at the edges. Enjoy the views which I reckon will be a nice step up from the supplied eyepieces. Of course your millage may differ but most nights you probably won't be observing much over x200 and only on really steady nights of seeing will you be going +x250 etc.

[Greymouser]

41 minutes ago, Rob Sellent said:

Personally, I would not have bought them for use in a fast scope (>f6)

I think there may be a misunderstanding from the OP here, a faster scope, is not the one with the higher F number. ( Slower is not a lower number. ) I was told that the Hyperions are not very good for telescopes with F numbers less than 7, that is 4; 5; 6 etc. I am pretty sure a F5.9 is not slower than a F10, for instance, but in fact faster. I was under the impression that Hyperions, to give their best, need a telescope of F7/ F8/ F9/ F10, or slower. ( Higher number. )  Maybe it is me that is wrong here though...

Either way, maybe I am just biased by my own experience, because I did not like my 10mm in my F10 SCT.

[John]

9 minutes ago, Greymouser said:

....  Maybe it is me that is wrong here though...

 

My experience / understanding about Hyperions is the same as yours.

Not the first eyepiece range I'd consider for a F/5.9 scope.

 

[Gonko]

When they arrive I'll write a review. 

Some things I read was that parabolic mirrors induce coma at the edge. Also, a wider fov ep will show this more. This explains why some lower fov eps at the same price point, get good reviews. In fact, the coma may be hidden from the fov due to it being smaller. .

The main reason I went with the hyperion is the eye relief. 

In faster scopes most eye pieces are tested and it seems that most plossls with narrower fov and only the really expensive wfov 250+ per ep cut the mustard. 

In slower scopes of f7+ preety much any ep will yield decent results, again it appears to be parabolic mirror related at certain f ratios. 

My scope is 8inch dob, 1200mm so f5.9.

 

Ill definitely write a detailed review when I get them as it can only help other newbies coming through the ep ladder. 

Edited December 10, 2019 by Gonko

[John]

This is useful guidance on optical aberrations, both from the scope optics and from the eyepiece:

http://umich.edu/~lowbrows/reflections/2007/dscobel.27.html

[Rob Sellent]

2 hours ago, Greymouser said:

I was under the impression that Hyperions, to give their best, need a telescope of F7/ F8/ F9/ F10, or slower

 

3 hours ago, Rob Sellent said:

Personally, I would not have bought them for use in a fast scope

I'm confused. Aren't these two statements saying much the same thing

 

Edited December 10, 2019 by Rob Sellent

[Greymouser]

1 hour ago, Rob Sellent said:

I'm confused. Aren't these two statements saying much the same thing

I was trying extra emphasis, to make the point as strong as possible and no, it seems not as the OP still does not seem to get what several people have said, several times.

I think I will stop trying to help with advice as it seems pointless and just adds to the confusion, even maybe causes offence...

[John]

I think all the advice in this thread has been given in good faith and I'm sure recieved as such by the original poster

We can only post our experiences and these may well differ person to person. Eyepieces very much a matter of personal preferences I think. Sometimes you need to try a few types out to find out what suits you.

I hope @Gonko enjoys the eyepieces chosen and I'd be interested to hear back on how he/she finds them once a few sessions have been had (could be sometime given the weather we have been having ).

 

[joe aguiar]

Agreed he already bought them and they are fairly good eps just dont use it with an inferior Barlow.

Back in the 90s I came to the conclusion that I saw some difference from using regular Barlow compared  to not using one at all.

Even using TV barlows I found a very  small minute difference but still a small amount so I tried to just use eps whenever I can.

However somtimes with st scopes theres no other way cept to use a Barlow. 

Cheers

Joejaguar 

[Gonko]

15 hours ago, Greymouser said:

I was trying extra emphasis, to make the point as strong as possible and no, it seems not as the OP still does not seem to get what several people have said, several times.

I think I will stop trying to help with advice as it seems pointless and just adds to the confusion, even maybe causes offence...

I fully understand what you and others are saying. I also know a higher F number = slower. I had a celestron AM 114AZ (F10 I believe) before the dob. I have taken all advice onboard and went woth the Hyperions with my eyes wide open - I'll detail reasons below here.

1. From reviews they have decent eye relief (a major factor for me with Astigmatsm in my eyes)
2. Consistent relief (according to reviews) accross the range. The other EP's mentioned appeared to offer reviews of varying relief through the range...
3. Addon spacer rings that can change the focal lenths
4. Ability to use as 1.25 or 2inch
5. Carry case is a very nice bonus
6. Eaisly threads onto cameras if I decide to go Astro-photography down the line in a slower EQ mounted scope
7. Bang for buck seems to be in the right spot...
8. At my scope of F5.9 (say F6) I hope and feel that I am on the edge of getting away with most of the downsides of this range of EP - in faster scopes
9. The 5 and 8mm that come in the kit get great reviews on most scopes
10. As I am new ot the hobby, perhaps I won't notice about any minor imperfections that are there....this may change if I get more fussy going forward lol
11. And my scope is collimated every couple of days - so again....I'm hoping the EP's can hold their own.

 

14 hours ago, John said:

I think all the advice in this thread has been given in good faith and I'm sure recieved as such by the original poster

We can only post our experiences and these may well differ person to person. Eyepieces very much a matter of personal preferences I think. Sometimes you need to try a few types out to find out what suits you.

I hope @Gonko enjoys the eyepieces chosen and I'd be interested to hear back on how he/she finds them once a few sessions have been had (could be sometime given the weather we have been having ).

 

I will definately be writing a review of each of them recieved. I will run them against a bringht star and drag it accross the full FOV on each piece. I'll then go for the old reliable moon itself and report back on sharpness and contrast etc. 

All of the information, given by everyone has been greatly recieved, and believe me, I researched each and every suggested EP to the fullest. I've lieterally red pages on them. Hyperions were called out mainly for their soft edging at FOV, but also appeared to have the best ER of the bunch.....again all of this is based on my research on threads etc. At my F6 - I am aware this is possibly the brink of where they can drop off, certainly faster scopes of F5 and lower - they appear to need more correction at the edge.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Gonko

[Louis D]

To get the most out of your soon to arrive Hyperions, you may want to spend a bit more to get the Revelation/GSO coma corrector (which is on sale at a great price!).  It needs a 25mm spacer tube (can use the Hyperion spacer rings) added between the optics element and eyepiece holder, but after that, it's pretty good to go for most eyepieces that focus within 5mm of their shoulder.  It will not only correct well over 95% of the coma at f/5.9, it will also substantially flatten the field.  I've noticed marginal eyepieces benefit the most from using a coma corrector because now all you have to deal with is the eyepiece's inherent astigmatism.  It does require about 12mm of additional in-focus (back-focus) which is substantially less than the Paracorr or ES CC.  It only magnifies by 1.1x as well.  10% can be lived with quite easily, I've found.