A tip for impatient newbies like me...the pros are right. Take lots of time to observe your targets.

[MKHACHFE]

Hi all,

 

So, we finally got some clear skies tonight and I went out with my XT8 to observe M42. 

Of course, I knew that the pros always say take time to look at your target, 20-30 mins. Of course,, common sens dictates that they are right. But to be honest, I never looked at anything for longer than 5 mins before moving on, even though I was always aware that I should be patient and that if I was, I would be rewarded. 

So tonight, when I locked onto M42 with my 10mm BCO and UHC filter (which did actually help, which suprised me), i got a stool and sat and looked and looked..for about 25 mins. And lo and behold, it slowly opened up, revealing amazing structure and I viewed it as never before. 

I guess my post is to let newbies like me that the rewards for being patient are well worth it! I've seen M42 so many times, but never as "intimately" as I did tonight. 

 

Cheers 

[celestron8g8]

You know what catching the bug is all about !! 

[John]

The more you look, the more you see

Nice report on your latest M42 encounter - sounds great !

[MKHACHFE]

Thanks guys. I had a great 3 hours tonight.

[Stu]

So true! I always get a little frustrated when you show someone something in the scope, and they look for 10 seconds and say 'that's nice' and that's it! The longer you look, the more detail reveals itself so putting in the time really is worthwhile.

[John]

This relates to planetary observing as well as deep sky objects of course !

 

[MartinB]

9 minutes ago, John said:

This relates to planetary observing as well as deep sky objects of course !

 

Especially planetary observing.  After a while your eye/brain starts to do a sort of registax rejection of the blurred images and locks on to how the planet appears during the moments of better seeing.  It takes me at least 10 minutes before this really stars to be fully effective.

[Stu]

38 minutes ago, John said:

This relates to planetary observing as well as deep sky objects of course !

 

Yep, very true! When the planets have been better placed, I've spent hours looks at them, particularly Jupiter as there is always something different to see even across the course of a night.

I also spent hours on the Veil when down in Wales recently, and repetitively following the different features really helped in teasing out the faint detail.

I must say that some of the smaller fainter objects are a bit of a 'see and move on' for me though.

[Alan White]

You have found the art of observing,
this is the step beyond sneaking a peak.
Sounding like you are already a step along the astro journey,
keep looking up.

[MKHACHFE]

9 hours ago, MartinB said:

Especially planetary observing.  After a while your eye/brain starts to do a sort of registax rejection of the blurred images and locks on to how the planet appears during the moments of better seeing.  It takes me at least 10 minutes before this really stars to be fully effective.

Interesting, I would have thought that it would matter more with faint DSO's ... Good to know. 

[MKHACHFE]

7 hours ago, Alan White said:

You have found the art of observing,
this is the step beyond sneaking a peak.
Sounding like you are already a step along the astro journey,
keep looking up.

Thanks mate.  God, I wish I lived somewhere with clearer skies. I was observing through the break in cloud over tonight. .It was fine and got mostly clear by the end of the session, but still the last month has been incredibly frustrating with regards to weather. 

[RT65CB-SWL]

It can be fun watching the Jovian moons disappear and then reappear from behind Jupiter's disc.

I remember a few years ago I was viewing Jupiter and did not see any as they where all eclipsed. Not sure how often this happens, but I believe it is a rare event. It was a kind of surreal experience not seeing any of them either side; then suddenly coming out of hiding.

Edited December 7, 2019 by Philip R

[MKHACHFE]

13 minutes ago, Philip R said:

It can be fun watching the Jovian moons disappear and then reappear from behind Jupiter's disc.

I remember a few years ago I was viewing Jupiter and did not see any as they where all eclipsed. Not sure how often this happens, but I believe it is a rare event. It was a kind of surreal experience not seeing any of them either side; then suddenly coming out of hiding.

But surely you are not seeing them disappear and reappear within a session? Wouldn't that be insanely fast? Although nothing would surprise anymore when it concerns Jupiter. 😁

Cheers

[John]

39 minutes ago, MKHACHFE said:

But surely you are not seeing them disappear and reappear within a session? Wouldn't that be insanely fast? Although nothing would surprise anymore when it concerns Jupiter. 😁

Cheers

You see reappearances or disappearences of a moon but not both on the same moon in the same session - passing behind Jupiter takes quite a few hours.

One interesting effect is that the reappearence of a moon does not always happen exactly as predicted because the moon can remain in the shadow of Jupiter even when it's clear of the planets limb in a line of sight sense. Seeing a moon suddenly pop into view some distance away from the limb can give you a little surprise. Very occasionally two moons do this during a session:

https://astrobob.areavoices.com/2011/12/29/jupiters-moons-reappear-out-of-thin-air-tonight/

Observing for some time though mainly helps in discerning more subtle planetary features. Initially the view of Jupiter, for example, might just show the two main equatorial belts but over time your eye adjusts and begins to tease out further belts and also festoons, eddies and the red spot (if it is on our side of the planet). If conditions are decent you are usually able to see quite a bit more detail after an hour at the eyepiece than you saw when you first started to observe.

 

 

[Stu]

10 hours ago, John said:

You see reappearances or disappearences of a moon but not both on the same moon in the same session - passing behind Jupiter takes quite a few hours.

Actually that's not the case John. I'm pretty sure I've watched complete transits before during an all nighter. I checked around opposition next year and as an example, Io makes a transit on 8th/9th June 2020, starting at 11.48pm on the 8th and finishing at 2.05am on the 9th, 2 hours 17 mins later so is quite possible to observe. Admittedly the altitude at the start of this example is only 2 degrees at the start but I'm sure there are other more convenient ones, the point being that transits can actually be fairly quick.

[Geoff Barnes]

With Jupiter being so high in the sky here I was able to see Io disappear and reappear at least on two separate occasions last autumn here. Took about 3 hours as I recall.  

[John]

Good information Stu (and Geoff just now)

I'd forgotten that a transit could be observed in a single session (daft because I've done it myself ) but also didn't link that to the time it takes for a moon to pass behind the planet.

I hope the other info in my post is correct

 

[Geoff Barnes]

3 minutes ago, John said:

I'd forgotten that a transit could be observed in a single session (daft because I've done it myself ) but also didn't link that to the time it takes for a moon to pass behind the planet.

We are entitled to the occasional "senior moments" at our age John!  

[chiltonstar]

In fairness to John, it has been difficult to observe a complete transit this year because of the low altitude of Jupiter seen from the UK - pops out of one set of trees and then dives into another!

Chris

[Stu]

30 minutes ago, John said:

Good information Stu (and Geoff just now)

I'd forgotten that a transit could be observed in a single session (daft because I've done it myself ) but also didn't link that to the time it takes for a moon to pass behind the planet.

I hope the other info in my post is correct

 

A minor misdemeanor John. I recall announcing an event (either a transit or conjunction) proudly and enthusiastically to the forum, only to be politely informed that when it occurred Jupiter would, infact, be below the horizon at the time! DOH! 🤣🤣

[geoflewis]

Something else to look out for with Jupiter are the mutual occultations of it's 4 main moons, which happens approximately every 6 years, when the orbital plane of the four Galilean moons is edge-on with that of the Sun and Earth. This last happened in 2014/15 and will happen again in 2021. Here is a gif animation that the I made from a series of images when inbound Europa was partially occulted by the outbound Io on 26 Feb 2015, together with a still image of almost maximum occultation which occured at 22:21 UT. The gif has an elapsed time of about 75 minutes and starts with Io and it's shadow in transit across Jupiter, then Euorpa appears inbound from the right.

They're not my best ever images, but they are fun events to observe and these fairly rare mutual moon occultations only take a few minutes to complete, so you need to be ready for them. Unfortunately the bad news for 2021 is that Jupiter will be very low down and close to the Sun in the dawn skies, however, the good (well better) news is that these mutual events occur over several months, so with a bit of forward planning, perseverance and clear skies, there is a possibility of seeing one or two of them from the UK in the March/April 2021 time frame.

Regards, Geof

 

[MKHACHFE]

On 07/12/2019 at 23:08, John said:

You see reappearances or disappearences of a moon but not both on the same moon in the same session - passing behind Jupiter takes quite a few hours.

One interesting effect is that the reappearence of a moon does not always happen exactly as predicted because the moon can remain in the shadow of Jupiter even when it's clear of the planets limb in a line of sight sense. Seeing a moon suddenly pop into view some distance away from the limb can give you a little surprise. Very occasionally two moons do this during a session:

https://astrobob.areavoices.com/2011/12/29/jupiters-moons-reappear-out-of-thin-air-tonight/

Observing for some time though mainly helps in discerning more subtle planetary features. Initially the view of Jupiter, for example, might just show the two main equatorial belts but over time your eye adjusts and begins to tease out further belts and also festoons, eddies and the red spot (if it is on our side of the planet). If conditions are decent you are usually able to see quite a bit more detail after an hour at the eyepiece than you saw when you first started to observe.

 

 

Very interesting. Thanks for posting this.

[MKHACHFE]

Very very cool geof.😀

[Xilman]

On 07/12/2019 at 09:44, Stu said:

So true! I always get a little frustrated when you show someone something in the scope, and they look for 10 seconds and say 'that's nice' and that's it! The longer you look, the more detail reveals itself so putting in the time really is worthwhile.

You have just described, accurately and succinctly, the difference between viewing and observing.

[MKHACHFE]

14 hours ago, Xilman said:

You have just described, accurately and succinctly, the difference between viewing and observing.

The problem is, of course, trying to convince people who think they don't really care about celestial views to give it a few mins. I say "think" because I have found that if the view through the EP gives an instant "wow" then people tend to get engaged very quickly...anything else, well, they lose interest as rapidly.

For example, my wife and some of my friends have been stunned in the past when I pointed out a -8 Iridium flare or the ISS or shown them the moon through my XT8. But my wife gave up looking at Jupiter last summer though the scope within a few seconds..She had just come from in the house, the planet was blown out and all she could see was a white blob (her words)..had she been remotely patient, she would have noticed the planets bands and red spot.

 

Its frustrating. But thats the way it is I guess. Instant gratification, isn't that what its all about these days...LOL?

 

Heck, I've been trying to get my wife to grasp how jaw dropping the double slit experiment is ( I have a long and deep interest in QM)....no joy so far with her, even though it still blows my mind when I think about it. 

 

C'est la vie.

Cheers