Which telescope for 15 yr old son

[Jenova]

My son has said he would love to look at the stars and planets.

ive looked at local sales but not sure which would be best for him to see planets & stars 

any advice would be greatly appreciated £200 budget and happy to buy secondhand to get him a  telescope with stronger focus.

2 for sale locally that look good but I know nothing !!

[upahill]

It would depend on what he wants to get from the hobby really. If he is interested in learning his way around the night sky and astronomy in general then a manual scope could be a good move, if he just wants to see some cool stuff then a GOTO takes some of the pain out of the initial learning curve.

Out of the two the Meade would be my choice, its computerised so more likely to be usable "out of the box" so to speak. The Helios looks a little undermounted to me and whilst would work, might introduce more frustration than necessary.

That said if you want most aperture for your money, along with simplicity then something like a Skyliner 150P dobsonian telescope would give good results. Buying second hand could get you a 200P for similar money. No computers involved as its a manual 'push around' type. Easy to use and great for learning the sky.

Hopefully more experienced people will make some more specific reccomendations

 

 

[Physopto]

Stars and planets! two different objectives really. Planets need a higher magnification. Star clusters or nebula's generally need much lower magnification. By that I mean either narrow field of view or wider field of view. A DOB may be the best initial thought. But I cannot recommend enough,  take your son  to a local  astronomy club and ask for their help if there is one nearby. Clubs have a reservoir of knowledge in their members. Most members will have tried and changed their minds upon exactly what they wanted from the start, I know that I changed my mind.  You could always start with a decent pair of binoculars and a tripod or mono-pod.

Derek

[Les Ewan]

I read a review in the S@N magazine recently that impressed me so much  that it got me thinking 'Wow I wish I had that when I was starting out'. Its the Skywatcher  Pronto AZ 130. I don't have any personal experience of this scope but I would guess it would  be the perfect scope for the young  beginner . It  looks like it would be simple to operate and set up.I just checked the FLO website and it's selling for just under £200.

But what ever you telescope you choose don't forget to advise other family members to get him the compulsory 10X50 binoculars along with books and star charts.

[Rob Sellent]

Welcome to SGL, @Jenova.

I think you've done your son a massive deed simply by joining this forum before purchasing a scope. It makes my heart sink when I see someone with a tatty but equally-as-expensive telescope that will inevitably frustrate one to the point of never wanting to use it again. To be honest, I'd be wary of buying secondhand if I wasn't sure what exactly I was looking for and how I could distinguish between the good from not so good. If you or someone you know is confident in their knowledge, it would also make sense to check the gear before committing to buy.

As such, I'd strongly suggest that you buy your first set up from a specialist telescope shop that can provide advice and an ongoing service – not from ebay, not from Amazon and not from some department store or photographic shop where the staff will generally have no knowledge of what they are selling. If you haven't already had a look, First Light Optics comes highly recommended as one of Great Britain's best astronomy shops and, of course, SGL can help out a lot.

When looking around at your new potential purchase the general precept is that aperture rules and so you'll find that if a beginner asks 'what should I buy?' 99% of those answers are going to suggest the biggest Newtonian (reflector) you can afford and carry about, and more than likely a Newtonian which is Dobsonian mounted rather than GEM (EQ) or AZ mounted, simply because Dobsonian mounts (the rocker box) are easier to use and set up and are cheaper, so in effect you're putting more money into the optics and less into the mount.

Like a refractor the Dobsonian telescope isn't susceptible to dew formation, so techniques such as dew shields and heater strips become unnecessary as they would necessaily be for Maks and SCTS, but unlike an achromatic refractor, you'll get more aperture and you won't get chromatic aberation. Furthemore, it won't take as long to cooldown as a Mak or SCT and on good seeing nights should give really nice views on planets.

I think FLO's beginner recommendations make a lot of sense to which I'd also add the Skyliner 150p. Any one of the Skyliners or Heritages by Skywatcher would make a lovely present for your son. The scopes come pretty much assembled and generally only need the finder attaching. They're well made, very sturdy on their wooden Dobsonian mount and look very attractive. There are a couple of downsides to the Dob. For any type of Newtonian scope you will need a collimation tool to collimate the mirror. Some folk find collimation annoying but to be honest, it's really no more than a little tweak of the mirror every session. Some folk don't like diffraction spikes when viewing bright objects and you'll probably need a seat to sit on so as to avoid bending down to view objetcs with the Skyliners and a table to support the Heritages when in use. 

To get a relative comparison of sizes this picture is useful. Note, the tiny Dob 76 to which the Heritage scopes are family; that the 200 Dob's footprint is a tad smaller than it is for a mount necessary for a Mak 127 or 102 refractor, for example, and weight wise is probably a bit heavier but can be split into two manageable parts:

As is evident, inch for inch, Dobsonian scopes are a lot cheaper than Refractors, Maks or SCTS and because you can afford more aperture for less, you're getting more resolution, brighter images, and the possibility of going deeper and seeing more.

With all that said, it might now be helpful to run through a number of questions with your son to help hone both of your pursuits and just as importantly, expectations:

• where will I be viewing from?
• where will I store the gear?
• what kind of weight and size would I be comfortable with?
• what are the sky conditions like in terms of light pollution?
• if I need to carry the scope/mount etc is this easily done from the storage area?
• what do I expect to see? (Nasa images vs Visual astronomy)
• have I budgeted for all the other bits and pieces which maybe necessary (collimation tool, star atlas, red torch, warm clothing, case, extra eyepiece, etc)?

It shouldn't take too long to get a rough gist of what is involved. Then, with these ideas in hand, come back and the wizards of SGL will be able to help tenfold.

Hope that helps a little

Edited December 1, 2019 by Rob Sellent

[Marvin Jenkins]

I wouldn’t buy either. My first choice would be a SkyWatcher 130p Heritage, an absolute bargain.

My other question from the first advert is how can it be viewed on a tv? If other people are to enjoy the show how can the view from the eye piece be projected to a tv without some kind of webcam or similar being in the loop?

[Alan64]

If the learning-curve of an occasional and regular collimation procedure for a Newtonian is acceptable...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-150p-dobsonian.html

That one would be easier to collimate, to maintain.  This one would be a bit more difficult, but it's very popular, and quite capable in its own right...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/heritage/skywatcher-heritage-130p-flextube.html

However, I don't know how corrosive, salty, the environs are there in Clacton.  Salt will eventually damage the coatings of a Newtonian's mirrors.  A refractor would withstand such best, but at the cost of a smaller aperture; for example...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Meade-Instruments-Infinity-Refractor-Telescope/dp/B00LY8JWB0/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?keywords=Meade+Starpro+90+mm&qid=1575249323&s=electronics&sr=1-2-fkmr0

The AZ-3 mount that comes with that one is a bit wonky, upon arrival, but there are DIY adjustments and mods to improve its performance.

There is a short-compact 102mm, the next size up in aperture; for example...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/startravel/skywatcher-startravel-102-az3.html

But at f/5, and with its short focal-length, it doesn't play well with the general 4mm-to-40mm range of eyepieces.  You would need a 3x-barlow to reach the higher powers of which a 102mm aperture is capable.  It comes with the same mount as the Meade.  It would suffer from considerable false-colour when viewing brighter objects, like the major planets and brighter stars.  It is configured primarily if not exclusively for low-power, wide-field views of dim and dimmer-still deep-sky objects instead.

102mm and larger refractor kits, with longer focal-lengths, are ideal for the brighter objects; for example... https://www.firstlightoptics.com/evostar/skywatcher-evostar-102-eq3-2.html

...but they also require larger mounts to support them.

The Meade "Infinity" 90mm is only 10mm less in aperture; albeit in refractorland that is a considerable demotion, but at f/6.7 the false-colour would be considerably less than that of the 102mm f/5 "Startravel" when viewing brighter objects.

With most any entry-level refractor kit, a proper star-diagonal would be required for use at night.  As they come, they are generally provided with an Amici, erect-image diagonal, and best for daytime-terrestrial use.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Alan64

[JamesF]

1 minute ago, Alan64 said:

It would help to know the child's age.

Points to title of thread

James

[Alan64]

2 minutes ago, JamesF said:

Points to title of thread

James

Yes, I caught that, and corrected it.  Thank you.

[Alan64]

In so far as used kits, beware.  There are several types; that is, the variables of the listings.  Some know nothing about telescopes and simply want to get rid of them.  Those are generally the best offers, the best deals.  Others know all about the telescopes, and still want to get rid of them; a bit of caution should be exercised there.

[Alan64]

Oh, I forgot about this one...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/omni-xlt-series/celestron-omni-xlt-102-az.html

That's the ticket, if you want a refractor.

[joe aguiar]

I agree the 130 skywatcher heritage would be good. They also make a 130mm f/5 on eq2. A 6 or 8 inch dob are good starter scopes altho it's a push pull scope with no slow motion controls or tracking.

You may need a sturdy table for the first scope sw heritage and the last 2 dobs to view as they r only about 3 to 4ft tall.

I norm prefer a EQ mount like the 130mm f5 model compared to a 6 inch dob on the floor. The eq model will probably have the ep at a perfect height for most adults.  And it has slow motion controls so u can track manually and later u can add a clock drive so it tracks automatically 

Joejaguar 

[Froeng]

On 01/12/2019 at 20:49, Marvin Jenkins said:

I wouldn’t buy either. My first choice would be a SkyWatcher 130p Heritage, an absolute bargain.

My other question from the first advert is how can it be viewed on a tv? If other people are to enjoy the show how can the view from the eye piece be projected to a tv without some kind of webcam or similar being in the loop?

Agree on the Heritage. I use it as a grab and go and its incredibly capable...

[Alan64]

The uniqueness of the "Heritage" 130P precludes whether the mount provided is suitable or not.  I have a Zhumell Z100; same as the "Heritage" 100P, and I've already abandoned its Dobson mount, which I regard as an item included merely to display the telescope.  It is eminently expendable, yea, even to be sacrificed upon the altar of the astronomy gods.  From this...

...to this...

...instead.

Very little of the purchase-price goes towards the table-top mounts of these kits.  The real prize, and the lion's share of the expenditure, is the telescope itself.  The mount will serve, in the beginning.  I do take into account that there may very well be those who prefer the included mount, albeit unfathomable.

[Stu]

It is true that the mounts need putting on a table or similar to get them to a convenient height. I use my Heritage 130P on a similar style mount to Alan, which does help the useability. The tube has a dovetail on it already that means it can be removed from the standard base and attached to other mounts very easily.

[Jenova]

Thankyou for all your replies. You certainly made me think how my son would first use his telescope. ive watched So many videos on so many scopes past few days. 
Now I need help on which quality eye piece to purchase. And do all eye pieces fit all scopes are they all a standard size & fitting?

Will he need filters too

To start he will view from his bedroom window, but judging from all the research I’ve done he’ll soon be outside 😂  I’ve decided to spend a bit more and invest in a goto telescope that has a Wi-fi link to a iPad app. I know you may frown on this, but I’m sure also you’ll understand that a 15yr old uses a lot of internet tools. I decided that a app with info at his fingertips, on whichever object he tries to view would suit his thirst for  Knowledge.

SkyWatcher star discovery p150i Wi-fi telescope is what I think will suit him. 

But which quality eye piece should I buy with it?

Thankyou so much 😃

 

[Mick H]

Eyepieces:

• Eyepieces Supplied (1.25"): 10mm & 25mm, that should be enough to start.
• He's a very lucky boy.😉

[joe aguiar]

On 02/12/2019 at 19:31, Alan64 said:

The uniqueness of the "Heritage" 130P precludes whether the mount provided is suitable or not.  I have a Zhumell Z100; same as the "Heritage" 100P, and I've already abandoned its Dobson mount, which I regard as an item included merely to display the telescope.  It is eminently expendable, yea, even to be sacrificed upon the altar of the astronomy gods.  From this...

...to this...

...instead.

Very little of the purchase-price goes towards the table-top mounts of these kits.  The real prize, and the lion's share of the expenditure, is the telescope itself.  The mount will serve, in the beginning.  I do take into account that there may very well be those who prefer the included mount, albeit unfathomable.

i just ordered 2 of those mini dobs for my youtube channel to test since christams is right around the corner, the 1st one should come by fri just intime for a weekend video.

the celestron 76mm was my first one ordered so ill see how that mount or overall scope is for a new person.

the 2nd one iam thinking of is either the meade 114 mini dob or the skywatcher 130mm heritage one i havnt decided yet cause depends on price, i cant always buy a scope just for testing on a video.

joejaguar

 

[Alan64]

3 hours ago, Jenova said:

Thankyou for all your replies. You certainly made me think how my son would first use his telescope. ive watched So many videos on so many scopes past few days. 
Now I need help on which quality eye piece to purchase. And do all eye pieces fit all scopes are they all a standard size & fitting?

Will he need filters too

To start he will view from his bedroom window, but judging from all the research I’ve done he’ll soon be outside 😂  I’ve decided to spend a bit more and invest in a goto telescope that has a Wi-fi link to a iPad app. I know you may frown on this, but I’m sure also you’ll understand that a 15yr old uses a lot of internet tools. I decided that a app with info at his fingertips, on whichever object he tries to view would suit his thirst for  Knowledge.

SkyWatcher star discovery p150i Wi-fi telescope is what I think will suit him. 

But which quality eye piece should I buy with it?

Thankyou so much 😃

 

A quality 2x-barlow might be a welcome addition to the eyepieces that come with the kit, and for closer views of this object and that.  I have a 150mm f/5 Newtonian that's similar to the one within that go-to kit.  I use a 3x-barlow even, and for getting the magnification up to nigh 200x and beyond.  I combine the 3x-barlow with a wide-angle 12mm, for a simulated 4mm, and at 188x.  With the automatic tracking of the mount, even higher powers can be realised; for the Moon, the planets, and double-stars.

This wide-angle 12mm is quite popular... https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bst-starguider-eyepieces/bst-starguider-60-12mm-ed-eyepiece.html

Barlows... 

2x... https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/antares-x2-achromat-fmc-barlow-lens-125.html

3x... https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/antares-x3-achromat-fmc-barlow-lens-125.html

I have both, and they've performed wonderfully with my 150mm f/5...

...along with all of my other telescopes.

[Alan64]

10 minutes ago, joe aguiar said:

i just ordered 2 of those mini dobs for my youtube channel to test since christams is right around the corner, the 1st one should come by fri just intime for a weekend video.

the celestron 76mm was my first one ordered so ill see how that mount or overall scope is for a new person.

the 2nd one iam thinking of is either the meade 114 mini dob or the skywatcher 130mm heritage one i havnt decided yet cause depends on price, i cant always buy a scope just for testing on a video.

joejaguar

 

I never suggest nor recommend f/4 Newtonians to those first starting out, as an f/4 Newtonian is rather difficult to collimate, not to mention unsuitable for reaching the higher powers of which this aperture and that are capable.  F/5 is the minimum I suggest for Newtonians; f/6+ for achromats, and both for a lasting and versatile experience.

The general range of eyepieces from 4mm to 40mm doesn't work well with all telescopes on the market.

[alacant]

 

On 01/12/2019 at 21:49, Marvin Jenkins said:

SkyWatcher 130p Heritage, an absolute bargain.

Hi

I agree.

There's only one other I'd consider. It has the same optical specification: this one, which is built to last.

HTH

 

 

[joe aguiar]

24 minutes ago, Alan64 said:

I never suggest nor recommend f/4 Newtonians to those first starting out, as an f/4 Newtonian is rather difficult to collimate, not to mention unsuitable for reaching the higher powers of which this aperture and that are capable.  F/5 is the minimum I suggest for Newtonians; f/6+ for achromats, and both for a lasting and versatile experience.

The general range of eyepieces from 4mm to 40mm doesn't work well with all telescopes on the market.

I agree with u alan i also preferan f/5 for a reflector scope for visual, altho there are thousdands of those 80f/5 refractors that have sold and i have had some of those and they are great for those wide field views or for a light weight portable refractor.

reason i ordered the celestron 76mm  is $54 free shipping and with tax was $61 cdn. in this price range its not even the trash scopes as we know but the garbage scope or toys. Even going to the $99 to the $125 price range these basic starter scope are not that bad overall BUt its the crappy tripod mount (az1/az2) type. They also come with a 0.965" focuser and eps etc these are just garbage BUT there have been lots good reviews from the 4" mini dob to the 4.5 to the 5" sw hertigae scope. 

so even tho its f4 its parabolic mirror it may not need collimation unles they drop it. better yet it comes with the 1.25" focuser and even on this mount may be a muich better starter scope compared the 3" reflector on a az1 with 0.965 accessiors. even that i don't think a new would be $61 new Canadian uk that's about $36 UK

anyway i will test it out and do a video and see if this would be a better scope that the one i memtioned and see but on paper and with my experience i bet it is better overall but ill wait to say my final thoughts.

[Alan64]

2 minutes ago, joe aguiar said:

I agree with u alan i also preferan f/5 for a reflector scope for visual, altho there are thousdands of those 80f/5 refractors that have sold and i have had some of those and they are great for those wide field views or for a light weight portable refractor.

reason i ordered the celestron 76mm  is $54 free shipping and with tax was $61 cdn. in this price range its not even the trash scopes as we know but the garbage scope or toys. Even going to the $99 to the $125 price range these basic starter scope are not that bad overall BUt its the crappy tripod mount (az1/az2) type. They also come with a 0.965" focuser and eps etc these are just garbage BUT there have been lots good reviews from the 4" mini dob to the 4.5 to the 5" sw hertigae scope. 

so even tho its f4 its parabolic mirror it may not need collimation unles they drop it. better yet it comes with the 1.25" focuser and even on this mount may be a muich better starter scope compared the 3" reflector on a az1 with 0.965 accessiors. even that i don't think a new would be $61 new Canadian uk that's about $36 UK

anyway i will test it out and do a video and see if this would be a better scope that the one i memtioned and see but on paper and with my experience i bet it is better overall but ill wait to say my final thoughts.

I found this video interesting...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkgR_307OEo

The secondary-hub and -mirror do not seem to be that obstructive, as is usual with f/4 Newtonians; but then, the primary-mirror itself is quite small, and not parabolic as it should be.  I had gone with the Zhumell Z100 as it has a parabolic primary-mirror, although not guaranteed to be "diffraction-limited", as omitted within the specs for the identical Orion "SkyScanner" 100mm.  

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, joe aguiar said:

the celestron 76mm was my first one ordered so ill see how that mount or overall scope is for a new person.

I tried one out at a recent star party.  An advanced amateur had a couple of these setup for the kids to try out.  He'd picked them up from Goodwill for $20 apiece.  Being on a table intended for little kids, I couldn't get low enough to sight along the tube, so I shot from the hip, so to speak, and lined it up on Jupiter before it set.  In the dead center, you could just make out the Galilean moons and Jupiter's disk, but not much else thanks to the massive spherical aberration of the mirror.  Pointed at a star field, not much was visible because most stars were smeared out to imperceptible faint smudges.  It's no wonder they were donated.

[celestron8g8]

One of my favorite scopes is a 5" Bushnell Newt . Looks just like the Helios in the first picture you posted . I've had it since 1996 . Only thing is the Eye-Pieces were not very good so now when i use it i use better EPs' that i use with my Celestron 8" SCT . I highly recommend any good Newtonian in the 5"-6" range . They are really good scopes especially for beginners . Good luck , keep us updated what you buy .