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SteveNickolls

PrimaLuceLab’s Eagle Core

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I ordered the PrimaLuceLab (PLL) Eagle Core at the end of July this year as part of a wider plan for the coming season with the objectives of wirelessly controlling imaging sessions with a DSLR and lenses/telescope, decrease set up and take down times each session and generally use fewer and shorter cables. I also planned to use the Eagle Core to control guiding when using my telescope/DSLR combination. It’s been three months now so how have I found the product and how have things worked out in practice?

For those members who aren’t aware of the product the Eagle Core is the baby of PLL’s range of mini-pc’s and the Eagle Core has been designed specifically to allow control of DSLR’s for astro-imaging. The unit itself weighs around 512g and is very solidly built.

The Eagle Core design is very well thought out and its box structure with pre-drilled holes take a wide range of dovetails, tube rings, clamps, guide scopes and  telescopes and make the unit solidly part of the imaging equipment. It sports a bold red livery which matches the very wide range of accessories from PLL. PLL also make an number of devices to record temperature for dew control and to control focusing.

The unit comes in its own box which also holds the reasonably well written manual (in Italian and English), a selection of M5 and M6 bolts and a long DC power supply cable with a cigarette lighter type end. The manual contains detailed ideas for how the unit can be utilised for a variety of imaging set ups. I also purchased a 140 mm dovetail bar, clamp and DSLR power adapter.

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The unit has a ¼” photographic screw pre-installed on its upper surface allowing a ball head to be positioned there to take a DSLR as one mounting configuration.  The unit itself can be attached to the mount directly using a dovetail. The unit has many set up configurations detailed in the manual but users will discover solutions to their own requirements.

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The Eagle Core has a power connector on one side which takes either the supplied DC power cable or a PLL mains power accessory. Next to the screw in type power in connector is the screw-in wi-fi antenna connection. At the front end are three USB 2.0 ports and a network port. At the other end are three screw-in type 12 volt power out ports, two rated at 3A and one at 5A. PLL sell a range of mains power adapters with different maximum outputs to suit the range of their mini-pc’s and the overall intentions of the user and the equipment to be powered. I use one of the 3A outlets to power the CG-5 mount and another my DSLR using PLL cables. Having the Eagle Core provide power to peripherals cuts down on the need for long cables and potential snagging. The screw type power in and power out ports are not likely to allow inadvertent disconnection when in use. Shorter lengths of USB cables can be used to connect up the DSLR and guide camera to the Eagle Core.

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When in use the product creates its own wi-fi hot spot which the user connects to either with a mobile, tablet or pc. One of the attractions of the Eagle Core is the range of devices that can be used to communicate with the Eagle OS, taking in iOS, Android, Windows 7 and 10. Windows pc’s can also control the unit using a crossover Ethernet cable.

The Eagle Core supports a growing range of DSLR cameras from Canon and Nikon including some mirrorless cameras. PLL periodically releases firmware updates increasing compatibility with more cameras and other functionalities.

The lighter summer months coupled with the relatively poor UK evening weather this season have limited the use of the Eagle Core but some imaging sessions have been possible. I have found what had previously become the bane of setting up and taking down equipment each night and the time involved  has been lessened with the Eagle Core. I am able to lift the CG-5 mount and imaging equipment down to the pre-marked imaging location without having to make fresh cable connections each time. I do use a rcd protected mains extension reel to provide power to the Eagle Core but that is the only long cable needing to be placed outside. If I had a larger power tank this cable could be done without.

I have found connecting to the Eagle App simpler with an Android tablet than using a laptop running Win 10 and the Eagle App appears to have been designed to look its best on a mobile or tablet held vertically. The range of steady connection to the device seems to vary, sometimes it can be solidly connected while sitting indoors 30+ feet away and other times not. The channel used for the hot spot can be altered and access to the hot spot is password protected and which can be user defined.

The Eagle App has two main functions, PLL name them ‘guiding’ and ‘acquisition’ (that is imaging proper). I have not been able to try out the guiding capability of the Eagle Core/Eagle App since my ZWO ASI120MM-mini camera is not supported. Communication with PLL is that they are not intending to add compatibility for this camera only for the later USB 3.0 models. This was the gamble I took when I purchased the Eagle Core with eyes wide open so no fault of PLL there. Strangely there is support for QHY5L-II and Lodestar guide cameras.

As regards imaging during my first uses I was getting an intermittent freezing of the App during imaging runs. I contacted PLL who advised updating to the latest firmware version (currently v2.6) and replacing the USB cable between the Eagle core and DSLR. Around that time I found I was getting an error on the DSLR reporting a connection problem between my DSLR (a modified Canon 700D) and the lens (a Canon 85 mm).  I am left feeling that this is related to the continued freezing. This has happened a few times now and is remedied for a time by separating the lens from the camera body and cleaning the contact of the DSLR and lens using isopropyl alcohol. It's possible that the physical disconnection and reconnection make a better contact betwen camera and lens for a time. I need more time to try out the DSLR with other lenses to eliminate any worry that it might still be software connected and the overall experience has left me with a lack of confidence with the robustness of my set up. I really need to set aside time in the busy day to further trial this out.

The Eagle OS provides the basics to allow astro-photography by wi-fi and Ethernet cable but does require a number of settings be manually made on the DSLR, examples being 'Bulb' mode and f-ratio. I have suggested a few improvements to PLL for the Eagle OS interface interface including replacing the image timer (currently displaying as a percentage of the current exposure done) with one that shows seconds elapsed. As exposures are taken the Eagle OS saves both a RAW and JPEG file to the camera's SD card and displays the JPEG of the last image made on your device. Unlike with BYEOS there is no ability to temporarily stretch the image to bring out fainter features. The displayed JPEG can however be increased and decreased in size to help with framing and focus. Settings such as ISO, exposure time and number of exposures are all user controlled via the Eagle OS.

A number of features I've found helpful in BYEOS are lacking in the Eagle OS, these include a histogram to provide user feedback on the exposure levels during the session, information on the camera temperature for each image, the capability to set up more than one imaging run and the ability to designate light, dark, flat and bias frames in a sequence.

PLL do provide firmware updates providing greater functionality and hopefully these missing capabilities might be added at some future date if other users also think they are valuable to have. PLL are very helpful, responsive and keen to learn from their users.

I will continue to use the Eagle Core for imaging sessions and hopefully iron out the intermittent problem experienced which is likely a problem with the camera and lens. If I get a supported guide camera in the future I will be able to report on its capability on SGL. I would also like in the future to try coupling the Eagle Core to my Star Adventurer imaging set up.

I hope this report will help other SGL members interested in the Eagle Core and its unique design strengths and provide DSLR astro-photography across a number of operating systems and by wi-fi.

Cheers,
Steve

 

Edited by SteveNickolls
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Nice report.

Was that a proper manual supplied with it?

I recently bought the Eagle 3S, I'll add an unboxing and initial review later.  I found some shortcomings in the manual.

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Yes, a printed bilingual manual amounting to 121pages. It includes guidance on mount control for SkyWatcher, Orion and other mounts with the device and Skyfi, and for Celestron mounts, the device and SkyQLink2.  Cheers, Steve.

Edited by SteveNickolls
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That is very good. out of interest were any of the software illustration shots still in Italian? They are in the Eagle 3Smanual.

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6 minutes ago, baggywrinkle said:

out of interest were any of the software illustration shots still in Italian? They are in the Eagle 3Smanual.

Hi, thanks for the enquiry. I've just looked through the manual and there are several illustrations in Italian in the English part of the manual, these are-

p67  The two illustrations on 'How to connect the Eagle Core using iOS device (iPhone or iPad)'.

p68 The two illustrations on 'How to connect to Eagle Core using an Android device'.

p76 The illustration concerning 'Eagle Core update'.

p97 A photo illustrating the position of the Pole Star to the Big Bear.

In truth none of it is detrimental to understanding what is being described. Perhaps we ought to offer our services up as proof readers. 😄

When I updated the firmware of my unit from v2.5 to v2.6 I did think the whole documented process could be more accurately set out to follow the steps needed to be done by the average user.

Cheers,
Steve

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Please also help to suggest to them to add a platesolving feature as well as a polar alignment routine.  I think these improvements can be made through software update.  I think a polar alignment routine will be easier for the to add.  There is probably a way to add plate solving .

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Thanks kunene for the wish to have plate solving and polar alignment added to PLL's Eagle App. As they are not going to provide support for the ZWO ASI120MM-mini guide camera and I cannot afford a replacement compatible camera for the foreseeable future I hadn't got that far down the line of suggesting further improvement to the Eagle App. I am presently using an iOptron iPolar on my mount and can recommend it. There's no harm suggesting these additions to PLL though the Eagle Core is the baby of their Eagle range with the least CPU power.

Cheers,

Steve

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Hi I have just purchased the Eagle Core and with it came an instruction manual. Your post says that on page 68 there are instructions on how to connect the unit to the Eagle Core but my manual stops at pp60. Can you advise me further as I am having trouble connecting. I have also tried to control my AVX mount by using the required cable and adapter but no luck there, so I have purchased an adapter as suggested in the manual. Just waiting for that to arrive but I cannot see that working better than the two adapters I already have.

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Hi, just about got all the kit I need just waiting for the 350 mm bar. My first thoughts are that when everything is in situ it looks a right mess with all the cables. I have the Core fitted onto my Explore Scientific ed80apo Scope on top of my AVX mount. I also bought a Sesto Senso focuser but it does not fit so I ground down the inside of the collar on the Sesto, it was .26 too small but now I cannot get it to work, thelarger focus collar just spins so the whole unit is rotating. There are two cables that need to goto the mount, one forpower and the other from the guide camera, the only , that I have found, camera that works is a 120 mm-s. I finally settled on the longer vixen bar so I could get balance. I bought Primaluce cables for my canon camera, Sesto and power. Finally I would say save your money.

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Hi Dinoboy

I am curious on why you decided to by Eagle Core when th ere is the new ASIAir Pro?  

Don't you think ASIAir would have been more useful to you? 

Is there something more special about the Eagle core?

 

 D

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On 13/01/2020 at 11:07, Dinoboy said:

Your post says that on page 68 there are instructions on how to connect the unit to the Eagle Core but my manual stops at pp60.

Hi, thanks for your post. My manual is a bilingual one, the first 61 pages in Italian then the manual is translated into English and the manual has 121 numbered pages in all.

 

On 13/01/2020 at 11:07, Dinoboy said:

Can you advise me further as I am having trouble connecting.

What means are you using to connect to the Eagle App-Windows, Mac, Andoid or iOS? I have been able to connect using my Win 10 laptop using both wireless and a cross over LAN cable. I've found the Eagle app is best displayed on a tablet, I use a Samsung Tab A to connect to the hot spot produced by the Eagle Core.

Are you following the manual instructions for connecting? There is one whole page devoted to connecting with iOS, another with an Android device and another using Windows or Mac.

 

On 13/01/2020 at 11:07, Dinoboy said:

I have also tried to control my AVX mount by using the required cable and adapter but no luck there, so I have purchased an adapter as suggested in the manual.

I have an older Celestron CG-5 mount but do not intend or have attempted to control the mount. I do have a PLL power cable that connects the Eagle Core to my mount but this only powers the mount it does not control its slews etc.

On 20/01/2020 at 14:10, Dinoboy said:

I also bought a Sesto Senso focuser but it does not fit so I ground down the inside of the collar on the Sesto, it was .26 too small but now I cannot get it to work, thelarger focus collar just spins so the whole unit is rotating.

Oh my! You will have scuppered any chance of sending the unit back to your supplier if you have ground down a part of it. I've found PLL very responsive to any issues.

On 20/01/2020 at 14:10, Dinoboy said:

the only , that I have found, camera that works is a 120 mm-s.

The Eagle App supports a number of guide cameras but I took a gamble hoping my ASI 120MM-mini would be supported sometime in the future but I was told by PLL that it will not (my imperfect understanding is that Linux (used in the Eagle Core) can have issues with some USB 2.0 cameras. The Eagle Core does support the QHY5ii-L and Lodestar and the device sports three USB 2.0 ports. I have recently purchased a ASI120MM-S which is USB 3.0. I haven't had chance yet to calibrate or trial guiding with this guide camera and the Eagle App due to the great UK weather of late.

 

On 20/01/2020 at 14:10, Dinoboy said:

Finally I would say save your money.

I've already spent my money and intend getting the most out of what I have. I've found the Eagle Core a decent piece of kit and after resolving an issue I had with the worn connections on my second hand Canon 85 mm lens found the Eagle Core to be reliable and just works fine. When I have completed trails into guiding I will be able to complete my review. The advent of the new ASIair Pro does add a strong contender in this arena and had it been out before I purchased the Eagle Core I might well have gone for the ASIair Pro instead but that is history and hindsight. The Eagle Core has the advantage that its box like construction allows it to become part of the payload which the ASIair products don't possess.

Regards,
Steve

Edited by SteveNickolls

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Thanks for your replies, firstly I should have waited for the ASI but even that has its issues, such as where to fit it, certainly on a small scope such as my Explore Scientific. Secondly the instruction manual is English first then Italian. I am using a Samsung Talet A for control which is at the moment fine.

Yes any chance of returning the unit has gone so I contacted them an asked about adapters for Explore Scientific ed80apo but as yet no reply. As you say we are not having the best conditions here in the UK so testing things out is an issue.

Your master of English is far bettthan mine is of Italian but if a publication such as an instructional manual is going to other countries then it should be easy to understand and not refer to pages that do not exist in the language the instructions are being translated too. How can anyone follow instructions if they are to follow on on pages that are either not there or have not been translated? 

Edited by Dinoboy
A few misspelled words and to add other comments.

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4 hours ago, Dinoboy said:

but if a publication such as an instructional manual is going to other countries then it should be easy to understand and not refer to pages that do not exist in the language the instructions are being translated too. How can anyone follow instructions if they are to follow on on pages that are either not there or have not been translated? 

I quite agree that manuals should be well written for the audience, be unambiguous and proof-read before being made available. We've undoubtedly seen this with other manuals which display various levels of comprehension. 

Hmm, I've downloaded the current pdf manual from PLL's website (bundled with the v 2.6 update) and it is indeed different from the hard copy that came with my Eagle Core. I have not looked at any PLL pdf before having solely referred to the printed manual that came with the unit. In the past I've only made cursory checks on the supporting manual but digging deeper reveals quite a convoluted trail worthy of more investigation.

Right now I am in the process of going through the pdf and have already seen differences in the Index, for example it includes on page 16 'Dithering with the Eagle Core' which I have not seen before. On page 7 of the pdf it refers to modifying the access password on page 75 which is the right reference in the paper manual but the pdf only numbers up to page 59, the rest of the manual being in Italian and renumbered 1-59 again. 

Page 12 of the pdf and page 71 of my paper manual refers to page 95 concerning autoguiding. However in my manual page 95 contains details entitled, "Before starting to photograph: light pollution and power". This must refer to some other manual edition and the references are incorrect in both the paper and pdf versions!

On page 13 of the pdf the, "Advanced settings illustration screen shot is different from that in the printed manual and also shows a dithering option. I understand that auto-dithering was added to the product in Version 2.4 dated 01/02/2019 so I'm thinking the pdf was altered sometime at or after that time and the paper manual printed sometime before. My Eagle Core arrived with v 2.5 installed.

I will look more into the differences later as I get opportunity. I'm not getting reimbursed for this proof work either he, he.

Best Regards,
Steve

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Hi again Dinoboy,

I've been able to go through the remaining changes in the two manuals I have to hand, my paper copy that came with the Eagle Core (v 2.5) and the pdf available with the firmware upgrade to v 2.6.

The whole of page 16 in the pdf is new and relates to, "Dithering with the Eagle Core".

Pages 19 to 22 in the pdf are new and concern the, "Control the computerised EQ mount connected to Eagle Core". 

After page 31 in the pdf there is a large warning to the effect that- "Following pages of the user manual, relating to the general concepts of astrophotography, are only available in the printed manual provided with the Eagle Core".  The pdf then blithely skips to page 57!

I would have expected then that each Eagle Core should ship with a printed manual, the purpose of the pdf being to supplement changes made with each new version of the Eagle App. These original printed pages are needed by the user to see how to take images in the "Acquisition" part of the Eagle App software. If you have never had access to the printed paper manual you really need to get a copy from PLL as clearly the pdf is not meant to replace the printed manual only add to updated parts of it though that's not been done without 'mistooks'. I hope this all makes sense?

Good luck!

Steve

Edited by SteveNickolls

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THi you really are going for it but where can I find the pdf? As it may have some information that I am missing, I have tried various places on the Primaluce site but no luck. 

I really want to control my mount remotely as I suffer very quickly now when my legs get cold, I have a cable that works on both of my mounts (Celestron AVX and Skywatcher eq3-2) but when I put it on the Eagle I get nothing !!! Why should the cable work on my mounts using Stellarium or Cartes du Ciel but not through the Eagle? 

Please let me know where I can locate the pdf file. Thanks.

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Hi, I'm on my tablet right now but in a while I will PM you a copy of the pdf. If you want to find it sooner I obtained it after downloading the v2.6 firmware update from the PLL site.  Just unzip the download and then open the manual pdf.

When you say you have cables do these power the mounts from the Eagle Core or do they control slewing? I have no experience trying to slew with the Eagle Core but do use a PLL power cable running from one of the 3A outputs to my mount (CG-5) to power it. That works fine.

Cheers,

Steve

Edited by SteveNickolls

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THi you really are going for it but where can I find the pdf? As it may have some information that I am missing, I have tried various places on the Primaluce site but no luck. 

I really want to control my mount remotely as I suffer very quickly now when my legs get cold, I have a cable that works on both of my mounts (Celestron AVX and Skywatcher eq3-2) but when I put it on the Eagle I get nothing !!! Why should the cable work on my mounts using Stellarium or Cartes du Ciel but not through the Eagle? 

Please let me know where I can locate the pdf file. Thanks.

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Hi Steve sorry it has taken so long to reply, problems ,problems. Anyway I got your file and read it throughly, that is only the first reading.

The cables I mention are for slewing, there is one for power from the Eagle Core to the mount but the one I mention is for controlling where the mount points it is a rs232 that fits into the bottom of the handcontroller then into a USB adapter which goes into my usb3 port on my laptop, but it seems not to work when connected to the Eagle Core. 

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Hi Dinoboy, thanks for the message. I hope the latest pdf manual is of help to you. It lacks a lot of content from the paper manual that should have been bundled with your Eagle Core-have you a paper manual at all, else you will not have details of how to use the Eagle Core completely?

Good luck with what you are intending. I have no experience with what you are attempting to do with the device and your mount but I'd advise contacting PLL by email setting out the specific circumstances and the problem, detailing your mount etc. I've found PLL very responsive and a solution may only be a quick fix away following the right advice.

Cheers,
Steve

Edited by SteveNickolls

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10 minutes ago, Dinoboy said:

Hi Steve sorry it has taken so long to reply, problems ,problems. Anyway I got your file and read it throughly, that is only the first reading.

The cables I mention are for slewing, there is one for power from the Eagle Core to the mount but the one I mention is for controlling where the mount points it is a rs232 that fits into the bottom of the handcontroller then into a USB adapter which goes into my usb3 port on my laptop, but it seems not to work when connected to the Eagle Core. 

Sounds like the Eagle Core doesn't support your rs232 to USB adapter, best do as Steve suggested and contact them directly giving the details of your particular adapter. 

Peter 

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Hi I contacted Primaluce and they suggested getting a Autenuc232a adapter which Inow have but guess what it still will not connect. I went through settings on the handcontroller even set the mode to North ( there are only two options in this setting North or South) I have spent in excess of £1000 British pounds on this and am really fed up with some things not working as they should.

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Hi Dinoboy, very sorry to hear of the continuing inability to connect despite obtaining the adapter. I can't offer any knowledgeable advice but I take it you have attempted connecting via different usb ports on the pc and tried connecting on usb 2 ports rather than usb 3 in case there is any compatibility issue?

I would suggest asking PLL again and see if they could walk you through the process. You might want to write down what you are doing to see if they consider a different approach would work.

At least with airing this matter on the forum you are making the issue live for anyone who could advise you better. Perhaps this type of connection issue is a known problem that others have faced even if not using the Eagle App and can give you a steer.

Regards,

Steve

Edited by SteveNickolls

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Hi Steve, I use my Samsung Tablet A when connecting to the Eagle Core not the laptop. The video I watched from Primaluce said to attach the 232 cable to the bottom of the handcontroller and after connecting the adapter to the cable, plug the other end into a USB port on the Eagle Core. Then connect to the Cores internet, open SkySafari plus and hit connect. This is supposed to allow control of the mount, not in my case, all I get in a message saying connection failed. I have tried both attaching the cable to the hc and also directly into the hc port on the mount, neither works. I have contacted ppl times but either I am asking the question wrong or something, but no definitive answer yet. I’ll try again with ppl and ask for an idiots guide to this.

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Hi Dinoboy,

Sorry to hear of your continuing problem.

I have scanned the pages from my manual which came with my Eagle Core having v 2.5 pre-installed, these pages instruct how to connect both SkyWatcher and Celestron mounts using the Eagle Core. For SkyWatcher mounts it mentions the need for a SkyFi III and for Celstron mounts a SkyQLink2. Now I've already sent you the most up to date pdf version of the manaul to accompany v2.6 of the firmware and this to my eyes reads very different to what is shown in the earlier paper manual. Now I do not know anything about this subject technically but I would question with PLL if any of these devices are still required to connect with the mount(s) or if the v2.6 manual now means you can simply do without them.  If that's the case they need to walk you through the process step by step so you can do what is required for your mount(s).

If you look on pages 19-22 of the pdf manual headed, "Control the computerised equatorial mount connected to Eagle Core" there is now no mention of any SkyFi III or SkyQLink2 required at all. 😮 Ahh, just a thought but is this because so much of the printed manual is not reproduced in the pdf version I wonder and they expect you to refer to it and so you might still require the SkyFi III and/or SkyQLink devices for the process to work? Doh!

I do also note that the pdf states the procedure has been tested on Synscan hand controllers with firmware revision v4.39+ so I would check your hand controller's firmware version status in case that is not up to date sufficiently. 🙂

Anyway here are the scanned pages from my manual, please read in this order-

IMG_0002.pdf

IMG_0001.pdf

IMG_0003.pdf

IMG_0004.pdf

And I once more add the pdf manual accompanying the firmware upgrade for v2.6 of the Eagle Core of which pages 19-22 are directly relevant here-

EAGLE-CORE-user-manual.pdf

Let us know how you fare with PLL over this, I rather think PLL's confusion with what is and is not in the different manuals may hold some important key here.

Cheers,
Steve

Edited by SteveNickolls

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