The effect of crime on observing

[Paz]

I've read a few reports on social media in my local area recently about criminals stealing cars and breaking into garages in the night and it has put me off observing in the street and local parks. Even in my garden it makes me think having seen others post CCTV of dodgy guys caught on camera checking out their cars and properties in the middle of the night.

I probably ought to ought to put it in perspective but I don't find that easy.

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

It's difficult feeling 100% secure, especially in a suburban/urban environment. However, the sane criminals don't want to get caught, so you're probably safe in your garden. A degree of paranoia is healthy, but don't let it put you off. Balance and perpective are the keys.

Saying that I wouldn't dare observe alone in a local park. Not far from there are estates chocca with drug fuelled, knife carrying teen nutjobs. I can look after myself, but taking on a gang just ain't gonna go down well for anyone!

 

[vlaiv]

On one hand, I think it is down to mental attitude.

For some strange reason, I've never been afraid to walk alone at night anywhere in my city. A lot of people that I know have some degree of unease if not fear of going alone at night.

It is not case of "it can't happen to me", nor do I live in peaceful city, far from it, bad things do happen at night - it is more that I don't ever think about it, it simply never occurred to me that something might happen. Even when I consciously think about it like now - it simply won't generate that sort of worry or fear next time I need to go somewhere at night alone.

That of course is a subjective thing, and far away from objective dangers (but it does help to be relaxed if you decide to go out observing).

I was going to propose carrying small radio / usb player and listening to some music or radio shows quietly so you don't disturb other people. Some threats out there are best avoided if they can spot you first, much like in the wild. People trying to steal something will like to stay concealed and they will avoid you if they are aware that you are there. Last thing you want to do is to surprise them, and it is easy to do so as you are sitting there in absolute dark without moving . That is when they can act in violent manner (more because they are surprised then because you pose any real threat to them).

Problem is that above behavior draws in another kind of danger - those people with aggressive demeanor, having had too much to drink and generally looking for trouble or someone to bully and act out their own frustrations. These sort of characters will be drawn by sound. Even worse, people looking to rob someone will do the same if you look vulnerable enough in their eyes, and again it does not help that you are sitting there in absolute dark, not moving and minding your own business.

 

[LukeSkywatcher]

I mainly observe from my back garden. My property is 100% secure-ish, (6ft 2 inch metal fence around 3 sides of garden and locked gate).  I observe about 2 ft away from my back door. Crime rate where i live is extremely low. If i drive 3-4 mins from my house i am in the middle of the countryside with perfect dark skies. I havent done it but i would feel perfectly safe as not many people walk up this road.

[LukeSkywatcher]

"On one hand, I think it is down to mental attitude".

Exactly. 

I  had a field i used by permission of the owner. In that field  were 30 sheep, 2 Donkies and  a few cows. They didnt bother me and i didnt bother them.

Edited October 2, 2019 by LukeSkywatcher

[Greymouser]

I used to have a neighbour a few doors down, who used to like gardening after dark. ( Not Ozzy Osbourne either! ) He was quite an odd fella and used to feel insecure, because of the neighbourhood, so used to keep an ice axe nearby the whole time! A bit extreme I though and dangerous, for several reasons, especially as it is not all that bad round here, in respect to crime, assuming you can ignore the drug use! Which is why I cut my observing session short tonight, as my neighbour lit up her nightly spliff of Skunk canabis, I have no wish to share it with her! She has got kids too. 

The axe toting fella is dead now though, he got cancer which finished him soon after retiring. Turns out it wasn't an axe he needed for protection, but a lifestyle change perhaps.

[Paz]

14 hours ago, vlaiv said:

On one hand, I think it is down to mental attitude.

For some strange reason, I've never been afraid to walk alone at night anywhere in my city. A lot of people that I know have some degree of unease if not fear of going alone at night.

It is not case of "it can't happen to me", nor do I live in peaceful city, far from it, bad things do happen at night - it is more that I don't ever think about it, it simply never occurred to me that something might happen. Even when I consciously think about it like now - it simply won't generate that sort of worry or fear next time I need to go somewhere at night alone.

That of course is a subjective thing, and far away from objective dangers (but it does help to be relaxed if you decide to go out observing).

I was going to propose carrying small radio / usb player and listening to some music or radio shows quietly so you don't disturb other people. Some threats out there are best avoided if they can spot you first, much like in the wild. People trying to steal something will like to stay concealed and they will avoid you if they are aware that you are there. Last thing you want to do is to surprise them, and it is easy to do so as you are sitting there in absolute dark without moving . That is when they can act in violent manner (more because they are surprised then because you pose any real threat to them).

Problem is that above behavior draws in another kind of danger - those people with aggressive demeanor, having had too much to drink and generally looking for trouble or someone to bully and act out their own frustrations. These sort of characters will be drawn by sound. Even worse, people looking to rob someone will do the same if you look vulnerable enough in their eyes, and again it does not help that you are sitting there in absolute dark, not moving and minding your own business.

 

The idea of making sure you don't surprise anyone  is something  I hadn't thought of.

In winter I'm trussed up in black from head to foot - warm army boots on my feet lots of layers that make me look 3 stone bigger than I am and sometimes 2 balaclavas on top. I wonder who would scream the most in a surprise encounter, me or a thief!

[vlaiv]

14 hours ago, Greymouser said:

I used to have a neighbour a few doors down, who used to like gardening after dark. ( Not Ozzy Osbourne either! ) He was quite an odd fella and used to feel insecure, because of the neighbourhood, so used to keep an ice axe nearby the whole time! A bit extreme I though and dangerous, for several reasons, especially as it is not all that bad round here, in respect to crime, assuming you can ignore the drug use! Which is why I cut my observing session short tonight, as my neighbour lit up her nightly spliff of Skunk canabis, I have no wish to share it with her! She has got kids too. 

The axe toting fella is dead now though, he got cancer which finished him soon after retiring. Turns out it wasn't an axe he needed for protection, but a lifestyle change perhaps.

If you were in the open (as one would be for observing session) - you really need not worry about any effects of odd spliff being lit up near by.

There is simply no chance it will have any sort of effect on you - both on your health or state of mind. Concentration of "active matter" reaching you is basically 0 (fact that you can smell it tells something about how sensitive our nose is - it needs very low concentration of molecules that we identify as smell to smell something, and active molecules (THC / CBD) are not the ones you smell).

Unless you are bothered by smell of it, or have any other reason to retire from observing.

[vlaiv]

3 minutes ago, Paz said:

The idea of making sure you don't surprise anyone  is something  I hadn't thought of.

In winter I'm trussed up in black from head to foot - warm army boots on my feet lots of layers that make me look 3 stone bigger than I am and sometimes 2 balaclavas on top. I wonder who would scream the most in a surprise encounter, me or a thief!

That adds another layer of complexity. You now need to worry about neighbors mistaking you for a burglar (with those balaclavas on your head and dark outfit ).

[Macavity]

No fear of the dark... A lot of my country rambles used to end in darkness? Good to have
a torch hand in such cases? Often I didn't! I am wary of URBAN environments these days?
As a 70's Uni Student, I "knew no fear" -- Even on the wee-small-hours stagger home! 😸

I find standing around with "precious stuff" in a publicly accessible place doesn't work
for me? Recently I was taking some "panoramic" shots with my standard Camera/Lens
on local heath-land and "some weird bloke" started to follow me me around?!?!? But I
sense that SOME people may not have seen an old-fashioned camera... or telescope? 😛

I admit being glad we are not comparing "man stopping power" of weapons on SGL! 😎

Edited October 3, 2019 by Macavity

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

8 minutes ago, Macavity said:

I admit being glad we are not comparing "man stopping power" of weapons on SGL! 😎

If I could legally carry the old 9mm Browning Hi-Power I was occasionally issued with, I'd have no qualms... 😈

[DaveS]

Nah, you want a Webley 0.455 revolver . We had one at school that we used as a starting pistol . The barrel was too pitted for live fire.

Observing "out front" I'm more in danger of being run down by an approaching car.

 

Edit : Cue "Dirty Harry" LOL.

Edited October 3, 2019 by DaveS

[markse68]

I do often feel quite vulnerable at my regular viewing site on a common in SE London. Especially when cars slow down to see what I’m up to... There’s a pub nearby and so a steady stream of groups coming and going. I quite often get approached with a “what are you doing- what the [removed word] is that?!?” and at times I’ve been really apprehensive about their approach. But touch wood the usual response after I’ve told them and invited them to have a look at Jupiter or the moon is a genuine thank you and regular hand shakes! Even drugged up yoofs! It turns from fear to a warm feeling inside in an instant. I guess it helps that my scope is and looks exactly like a big piece of plastic drain pipe- not the most theft worthy looking piece of fine optical equipment out there 😉

Probably  the worst thing about the site is the regular passing of emergency vehicles with their intense blue flashing lights that I can’t seem to help but look directly at and then curse my stupidity 🤦‍♂️ And a couple of times I’ve had a police helicopter seemingly take a great deal of interest in what I was up to 😳

[maw lod qan]

Over here, it seems senseless crime is on the rise, but I personally think it's the population growing and the more rapid reporting of things happening due to our new electronic savvy world.

[upahill]

3 minutes ago, maw lod qan said:

Over here, it seems senseless crime is on the rise, but I personally think it's the population growing and the more rapid reporting of things happening due to our new electronic savvy world.

Very much this, I read recently a book called Better Angels of Our Nature which discusses in great detail how almost every type of crime has consistently gone down for the past x years - yet our perception is that it has signifcantly got worse. As you say this is primarily due to the media and now social coverage. If it bleeds... it leads.

[Aramcheck]

My wife and I only observe from the back garden & at our local society sessions where there is safety in numbers (and a warm pub nearby). If we lived near dark skies, however, I'd be out in the countryside at  every opportunity!

It is interesting that in a Great Britain survey of 248,000 break-ins, 48% of the properties affected had 'security' lighting fitted... (Source the Austrian Guidelines for Outdoor Lighting).

[Carbon Brush]

44 minutes ago, Aramcheck said:

My wife and I only observe from the back garden & at our local society sessions where there is safety in numbers (and a warm pub nearby). If we lived near dark skies, however, I'd be out in the countryside at  every opportunity!

It is interesting that in a Great Britain survey of 248,000 break-ins, 48% of the properties affected had 'security' lighting fitted... (Source the Austrian Guidelines for Outdoor Lighting).

Sorry I can't find the source right now. But I remember reading that almost 50% of house break ins were during the day.
In other words daylight, security lights or dark make little difference!

Edited October 3, 2019 by Carbon Brush

[maw lod qan]

There's nothing in the dark that's not there in the daylight, even the sun. You just cant see it.

[Jiggy 67]

i think it should be noted that criminals, both violent and non violent property crime, are far more likely to commit offences against each other and their own neighbours. Although it does happen, the majority of criminals do not travel far to commit  offences so I wouldn't let them win by changing your behaviour too much apart from some basic precautions.....after all....the chances are that if you never locked your front door or your car nothing would happen, obviously, I'm not saying that you should do that.

I have considered leaving my equipment set up outside in my back garden but there are obvious concerns about that.....does anyone know of any insurance companies that would cover that risk??

[tomato]

Earlier this year I was imaging from my backyard in semi rural N Yorkshire, when a bloke burst through the back gate and nearly walked straight into the scope. He claimed to be interested in some puppies for sale next door which was interesting as they had none as far as I was aware. He    had consumed a few beers for sure but was friendly enough even though his language was sprinkled with expletives. After a 10 minute chat about what I was doing he went on his way.

Not sure what  this tale adds to the thread other than maybe I should keep my back gate bolted when I’m outside.

[PeterW]

Fear... when I walk about my suburban area at night there are hardly any people of any sort about (not even late at night). As long as you’re not in locations where you could expect trouble (tend to be overly lit, so unlikely) you should be fine. In the local park the drunks tend to stay close to the gates... probably scared of the dark too. 
observing with others is always more fun for the conversation and shared experience as anything else.
 

peter

[Aramcheck]

...and then there is he argument that lighting actually facilitates some crime:-
 

[Marvin Jenkins]

21 hours ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

It's difficult feeling 100% secure, especially in a suburban/urban environment. However, the sane criminals don't want to get caught, so you're probably safe in your garden. A degree of paranoia is healthy, but don't let it put you off. Balance and perpective are the keys.

Saying that I wouldn't dare observe alone in a local park. Not far from there are estates chocca with drug fuelled, knife carrying teen nutjobs. I can look after myself, but taking on a gang just ain't gonna go down well for anyone!

 

Right on bruv. Bad for all concerned.

[dobblob]

I suspect that my nocturnal activities in my drive way may in fact be an effective deterrent to local crime.

I am sitting out there with dull red lights glowing from my equipment with occasional weird noises from the scope slewing and the camera clicking away.

Occasionally a few ne'er-do-wells attempt an approach into the drive but soon saunter off on spotting this huge bundled up figure operating a bazooka on  a tripod.

Of course I am not there every night (more's the pity!) but the word probably gets around.

"Avoid that neighborhood. There's a nutter out with a canon on some nights!"

 

[Aramcheck]

3 hours ago, Carbon Brush said:

Sorry I can't find the source right now. But I remember reading that almost 50% of house break ins were during the day.
In other words daylight, security lights or dark make little difference!

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) publish data from the annual Crime Survey in England & Wales. It looks like roughly 40% take place between 6am-6pm and 60% after 6pm, with a reasonably even split between 6pm & midnight / midnight to 6am. The split between early evening (6pm - 10pm) and late evening (10pm - midnight) suggests that the hourly rate is about even in the evening...
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/datasets/natureofcrimeburglary

Sadly the raw data (which includes info on whether there was outdoor lighting present) doesn't seem to be readily available.