Skywatcher Esprit 150 First Impressions

[johnturley]

Finally picked up my Esprit 150 from Es Reid in Cambridge yesterday after a 7 week wait, Es tested both the scope and the field flattener last week and found them to be excellent. Interestingly Es also checked over a second hand Tak 150 the same week, and was able to compare the two scopes, in his opinion there was no discernible difference between them. However when it came to price there would have been more than a discernible difference, the new Esprit 150 (which comes with tube clamps, 9x50 finder, 2in star diagonal, and 28 mm eyepiece) plus field flattener cost me around £4,300 (from FLO), whereas a new Tak TOA 150B (from RVO) with tube clamps and finder, plus field flattener would have cost around £14,500, similar also to the cost of a TEC 160 (and approx. 6 month wait). 

The scope was very well packed in a substantial case, which in turn was packed into a cardboard box with extra packaging, I gather from Es that it is very rare one suffers from transit damage. The whole scope appeared to be well finished and engineered, substantially better than my Explore Scientific 127 APO, and also an 1987 vintage Astro Physics Refractor that I used to own. In particular the focussing mount was very smooth, and provided 85 mm of travel, as opposed to the  totally inadequate 45 mm on the ES Refractor, and think the majority of users won't find the need to upgrade to a Feathertouch focuser, which appears to be no longer offered as a factory fitted option. Surprisingly the tube length was shorter than I was expecting at around 75cm with the dewshield fully retracted, and only some 2-3 cm longer than the ES Refractor despite the extra 9.5 cm of focal length, most of this it appears is taken up in the focussing mechanism. The tube diameter was also greater than I was expecting at around 180 mm (with some scopes the tube diameter is only around 5 mm greater than that of the objective), the larger tube diameter should help to reduce tube currents. Although it is quite a heavy scope for its size, as I was half expecting I measured the weight of the OTA (without tube clamps, diagonal, finder, etc.) to be lighter than stated in the literature at 12 kg rather than 14.5 kg , similar to that of my AP Refractor (which I also mounted piggyback), and is not too difficult for one person to lift. 

My only criticism (so far at least) was that the layer of felt liner on the tube clamps was very thin (compared to that on the tube clamps of the ES Refractor), and can understand why some people may have had problems with the clamps gripping the scope sufficiently, I do however have some self adhesive felt which I can add on if necessary. 

I haven't however has the chance to try it out yet, as apart from the weather, I need a local engineering firm to machine some modifications to the tube clamps before I can mount it piggyback onto my 14 in Newtonian, and have spent part of today making a wooden template for a new support bracket for them to machine in aluminium. 

Will post further after I make my first observations. 

John 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2019 by johnturley

[Timebandit]

 

 

Looks very nice John. I am sure the performance will be just as good as the look of the scope. The esprit is just so good value for the money compared to other quality makes. From the feedback from other esprit owners I am sure you have got one great bang for buck refractor

 

Enjoy 🔭👍

 

 

 

 

[Alan White]

Looks and sounds great, you have to love a quality refractor.
I look forward to the first light report.

[ollypenrice]

I've had a few visit here and they've all been mighty impressive.

Olly

[gorann]

I have an Esprit 150 and an Esprit 100 and I am totally happy with both of them, including their focusers (not sure why some replace them with a Feathertouch but then I have never tried one). I can only see three reasons why you would go for one of the 2-3 fold more expensive US or European brands of high-end apo refractors:

1) You want to support our domestic manufacturers, which may be an argument I can sympathize with.

2) You do not trust anyone outside the US or Europe to make a top class telescope, which is not a very enlightened view.

3) I skip this one but it relates to why some buy a Rolex......

Edited September 22, 2019 by gorann

[astro_al]

3 hours ago, johnturley said:

Interestingly Es also checked over a second hand Tak 150 the same week,

The Tak that Es was cleaning is mine, but it is not the TOA-150 it is the older FS-152. Thoroughly nice chap who did a great job. He mentioned how close he thought the two scopes are, hope you enjoy using it.

Al

[gorann]

I also started off getting an ES refractor and then two (80 ED and 127 ED). Nice scopes that really got me into imaging, but they are not Esprits when it comes to the focusers and colour correction.

I am traveling to Australia in December and will bring the ES 80ED as a travel scope. It is a worry to travel with a scope but if it get damaged travelling, it will give me a good excuse to buy an Esprit 80

Edited September 22, 2019 by gorann

[tomato]

Enjoy your Esprit 150 John, I have been imaging with one for the last 12 months, and was sufficiently impressed to snap up another nearly new one recently to make up a dual Esprit 150 rig.

I simply could not be contemplating this sort of set up without these SkyWatcher refractors.

 

[pete_l]

14 hours ago, gorann said:

3) I skip this one but it relates to why some buy a Rolex......

I was in Morocco earlier in the year. One of the street vendors had "Rolexes". Next time I'll ask if they can get me an Esprit 150 for €25

[steppenwolf]

John, I hope you enjoy your Esprit 150 as much as I enjoy using mine - a truly superb set of optics that impress every time I use them. I did upgrade to the Feathertouch focuser which is superb but have to say that I may have gone a step too far as I also received the Esprit focuser and was very impressed with its feel and engineering. I justify the additional cost of the Feathertouch by this being my 'forever' refractor!!!

I don't think that you will find the standard focuser wanting in any material manner.

As for Tomato and Tomatobro having two of them ............. 😎

Edited 30/09/19 to add:-

It seems that the Esprit 150ED currently ships with a Linear Power (uprated Crayford) focuser which I have not had any experience of on this telescope. The focuser that shipped with my older (late 2016) model was a rack and pinion type.

[tomato]

3 hours ago, steppenwolf said:

 

As for Tomato and Tomatobro having two of them ............. 😎

Based on John’s price for the Tak TOA 150B, you could buy three Esprit 150s for the price of one Tak, and still have some cash left over.

Now there’s an idea, remind me what the Mesu’s imaging capacity is, but the dome shutter would need to be made a bit wider.😊

[BlueAstra]

If you are considering a motor focuser have a look at my thread here:

I also had a custom spacer made up here for my camera to set it at the correct distance from the field flattener. I got some thin steel washers (later plated by local firm) from ebay to act a fine focus adjustment:

http://www.jtechdesign.co.uk/

ESPRIT ADAPTER.PDF

Graham

[paraman]

On 23/09/2019 at 09:31, pete_l said:

I was in Morocco earlier in the year. One of the street vendors had "Rolexes". Next time I'll ask if they can get me an Esprit 150 for €25

I do have a Rolex and I also have a £20 digital watch, no prizes for guessing which is the better timekeeper, a clue,  the Rolex has been in its box for the last 2 years.

[tomato]

On 23/09/2019 at 09:31, pete_l said:

I was in Morocco earlier in the year. One of the street vendors had "Rolexes". Next time I'll ask if they can get me an Esprit 150 for €25

I’m sure they could source one, and try and convince you that Skywatcher make a version with a plastic lens.😊

[Tomatobro]

30 euros? I had a vision of the Life of Brian sketch about the Gourd   😊

Edited September 26, 2019 by Tomatobro
change of text

[johnturley]

I finally managed to get the Esprit mounted up and operational Wednesday of this week. It took longer than expected as unfortunately, due to a misunderstanding, the local engineering firm made the forward support bracket 6 mm shorter than it should have been, so that although I could mount up the Esprit ok, it wasn’t possible to align it with the 14in Newtonian so that the same object appears in the centre of the field of view through both instruments at the same time. As can be seen in the photos the rear support bracket has a small amount of sideways and up/down movement to enable alignment of two scopes. 

I was a bit nervous about how easily I could balance the scope on my 14in Newtonian, but despite the 12 kg weight of the OTA (around 15kg including tube rings, finder and star diagonal), I managed to balance it up ok (see photo), and with the slow motions working fine. In fact it made wonder how large and heavy a scope I could actually mount on my 14in Newtonian which is on a massive fork mount, maybe the absolute maximum would be a 180 mm f7 refractor such as the CFF and TEC which both weigh around 18 kg, but cost around £16k and £21k respectively, so don’t think I’ll be going that way anytime soon if ever at all.

I’ve actually installed my ES 8x50 erect image straight through finder (see photo), rather than the Skywatcher 9 x 50 right angle finder that came with the scope, as the former appears to be of better quality, and has an illuminated reticule, although I know some prefer right angle finders. I’ve also utilised a Baader click-lock diagonal rather than the included Skywatcher one for the same reason, and although there was sufficient travel on the focussing mount to reach focus without the need for extension tubes, I preferred to utilise a 50 mm Baader click lock one, so as to avoid racking out the focuser towards the end of its distance of travel. It also makes it easier to remove the diagonal and fit an additional extension tube for straight through viewing. Although some have posted stating that they did not like the capstan wheel type arrangement for rotating the focuser, I actually quite liked it, and think that it provides a much more rigid arrangement for locking the focuser in a particular position than that on the ES scope. The focusing mount tension screw on recent models has been replaced by a spring loaded locking leaver, and whilst this may please AP enthusiasts, I think that I would have preferred the former. 

The lens cap which unlike that on my ES Refractor, fits over the dewshield rather than the lens cell, being made out of fairly thick gauge metal is quite heavy, I’m surprised they don’t use a thinner gauge metal or plastic, but it does roughly balance out the weight of the main mirror cover. I can see the pros and cons of either, fitting over the lens cell is probably better for keeping out dust and moisture, but depending on the rigidity of the lens cell, maybe continuously removing and replacing over a long period could possibly effect collimation. I also needed to fit a handle to the one on my ES Refractor to remove or replace it as, because of the way the scope was mounted, I could not fully retract the dewshield to do so.  I also find it useful that, unlike on the ES Refractor, the dewshield (which is quite a sloppy fit) on the Esprit can be locked in position via 2 knurled knobs.  

I ordered the matching field flattener with the scope, but found that it is a bit fiddly to fit, as you need to unscrew the 3in to 2in reducer on the scope, fit an adaptor, then the flattener, then fit the matched extender tube, and then the 48mm to Canon (Nikon or Sony) adaptor, not ideal in the dark, hence I wonder how often I will actually use it in practice. The ES field flattener (which is actually an Ascension branded product from Opticstar designed for triplet APO's in general), came with a ‘T ’thread to Canon adaptor which fitted directly into a 2 in drawtube, and although obviously not a good as the Esprit matched flattener, it might still give quite good results with the Esprit, at least better than using no flattener at all. The larger size in the case of the Esprit matched flattener is because it has a clear aperture of around 60 mm, which I assume is necessary to provide the 44 mm image circle. 

I looked at a few objects Wednesday (one of the very few clear nights recently) including Saturn, viewing conditions were not ideal, but as expected the Esprit gave much sharper star images than the Newtonian, and under the prevailing conditions also on Saturn, plus as free from any false colour. I could just make out Cassini’s division through the Esprit, but not through the Newtonian (although it does show up clearly through it under good conditions), obviously the Newtonian gave a brighter image, and more moons were visible. The image through the Esprit 150 was though as expected, noticeably brighter than through the ES 127, and Titan showed up clearer.  I find it useful having a refractor piggybacked on the Newtonian, as depending on what you are looking at and the viewing conditions, one instrument or the other will give the better view.

John

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by johnturley

[johnturley]

On 3 December under quite good viewing conditions despite its low altitude, I compared the view of the area of the moon around the Mare Crisium through 3 of my scopes, the 14in Newtonian, the recently acquired Esprit 150, and the ES 127. Although the 14in gave a brighter view, there was very little to choose between it and that through the Esprit 150, regarding detail, sharpness and contrast On the other hand the view through the ES 127, although as well colour corrected as the Esprit, was some way behind the other two. I did wonder before I bought the Esprit 150, as to whether I would gain that much with just an extra 23mm of aperture over the ES 127, but I think the difference is not only due to the extra aperture, but also the superiority of the Esprit lens. I know that mine is a good one, as I picked the scope up directly from Es Reid (whom I know personally) in Cambridge after he checked it over for FLO. He stated that mine was one of the best he had tested, plus I know for a fact that after testing, it has not suffered from any rough handling by a courier. I would also like to have been able to compare the view through my CPC 9.25, but at the moment its stuck behinds some plants in the conservatory which my wife has taken in for the winter.

John 

Edited December 11, 2019 by johnturley

[joe aguiar]

On 23/09/2019 at 08:47, tomato said:

Based on John’s price for the Tak TOA 150B, you could buy three Esprit 150s for the price of one Tak, and still have some cash left over.

 

well we cant go by price only

I own takahashi, skywatcher, meade and celestron bascally most the big name brands.

saying this statement doesn't really help tho, I mean by my sig you can see I have the 6" evostar apo which is $2600 (on sale right now) compared to esprit 150mm apo at $8500. so we could also say I could buy 4 150 evostars compared to the 150 espirits. and this is comparing 2 models from the same company.  I own a skywatcher model so iam not putting down skywatcher at all.

also I also tested my takahashi 102TSA S to my 100 f/9 evostar (I sold it few months ago BUT I did own it) and there is no comaprision the tak blew the SW model out. But for most people the SW evostar could be enough and that's great.  This is also a big difference in price too the evostar 100f/9 is $1050 (on sale now) compared to my 102 tak about $4000 which is just shy of 4x the price so ya you could buy 4 100 evostar compared to a tak BUT theres a huge difference in what u will see. I did a video on this .

iam not saying same would happen compared to an espirit model based on my experience the tak 150 could still out perform the esipirt 150 but on a lesser degree since the spirit model is SW top model refractor compared to the evostar line, but iam sure there may still be some difference even if its small BUT we all have a price point on what we buy. If $8500 is your top then the 150 spirit may be fine for you if its the 150 evostar at $2600 then that's fine too. I too have not owned a tak toa 150 cause its $19,000 which is a lot but there are those that do.

joejaguar

heres the video if u want to see it

https://youtu.be/menLyjrBeoU

[John]

48 minutes ago, joe aguiar said:

... I also tested my takahashi 102TSA S to my 100 f/9 evostar (I sold it few months ago BUT I did own it) and there is no comaprision the tak blew the SW model out. But for most people the SW evostar could be enough and that's great.  This is also a big difference in price too the evostar 100f/9 is $1050 (on sale now) compared to my 102 tak about $4000 which is just shy of 4x the price so ya you could buy 4 100 evostar compared to a tak BUT theres a huge difference in what u will see. I did a video on this ...

 

 

When you say "huge difference" what do you mean ?

Can the 102TSA show things that the SW ED100 simply cant show you ?

You say that the SW performance would be enough for most people but if the difference is so great what would they be missing out on ?

Some specific examples would be great.

Owning a mix of top end refractors and less exotic ones myself I'm interested in the real life differences in performance you see

 

[joe aguiar]

image quality was much better much sharper as my vid says it was much sharper in a 2" 32mm ep, so even in low power I could see it much shaper and contrast.  This is when Saturn is one of its worst years too. however yes as I said to most people a doublet 53 apo at f/9 is also rated very good in fact the abbie rateing for this scope is 98% so I didn't think it be such a huge quality image difference but it was.

John I was able to see the same features on both but tak was just sharper clearer to see and more contrast. but for $1200 the SW 100f/9 is also a good scope too it depends if you want a good better or best and how much your willing to pay.

as I said few times when it comes to cell phone I am old school I get the cheapest phones (galaxy 3 is what I have now). some may say that's old compared to whats new out there BUt to me that's all I need I don't do apps, and to me my phone is just a phone or to text its not a camera or computer. so to me that's not important others it maybe a scope.  A decent apo or entry level apo is more then enough for what they want which is fine.

I also did compared my 120mm TSA to the meade 130mm 6000 model too BUT I cant say what happened as I cant give details until I do a video for my channel first probally in the spring time. or iam doing my channel harm in giving that info out before I realease that info.

But back to what I started with that's the difference I saw hope that helps if you want to see that video u can, I also have others like the 6" evostar if anyone is interested in buying that scope first you can get a first hand on that scope too.

BUT ill stop here on the tak now since I don't want to take over the posters thread which would be rude. SW is a great company I have owned scopes from them since like 1999.

joejaguar

Edited December 12, 2019 by joe aguiar

[John]

Thanks Joe

I agree re: not distracting the post topic any more - plenty of other chances to discuss scopes other than the Esprit 150 elsewhere.

[petevasey]

On 11/12/2019 at 15:40, johnturley said:

On 3 December under quite good viewing conditions despite its low altitude, I compared the view of the area of the moon around the Mare Crisium through 3 of my scopes, the 14in Newtonian, the recently acquired Esprit 150, and the ES 127. Although the 14in gave a brighter view, there was very little to choose between it and that through the Esprit 150, regarding detail, sharpness and contrast On the other hand the view through the ES 127, although as well colour corrected as the Esprit, was some way behind the other two. I did wonder before I bought the Esprit 150, as to whether I would gain that much with just an extra 23mm of aperture over the ES 127, but I think the difference is not only due to the extra aperture, but also the superiority of the Esprit lens. I know that mine is a good one, as I picked the scope up directly from Es Reid (whom I know personally) in Cambridge after he checked it over for FLO. He stated that mine was one of the best he had tested, plus I know for a fact that after testing, it has not suffered from any rough handling by a courier. I would also like to have been able to compare the view through my CPC 9.25, but at the moment its stuck behinds some plants in the conservatory which my wife has taken in for the winter.

John 

Hi, John,

You seem to like the Esprit 150  very much!  How's it going after 18 months?  If you have a look at my thread here, you will see (towards the end) that I'm considering an Esprit 150 to replace my RC10.  I already have a Meade 127 which is I believe much the same as an ES 127,  and yes, it's pretty good.  But I would hope the 150 would replace both the RC10 and the Meade.  One particular question.  You mention that the bare tube weight is 12Kg rather than 14.5 - can you still confirm that?   It would be very useful to be able to use the 150 on my EQ6 'Star Party' mount.  If I do go for the 150, I would certainly choose the Es Reid route, and probably make the round trip to collect it even though I live in Northumberland - worth it imho to keep the considerable investment safe!

Cheers,

Peter

[ollypenrice]

35 minutes ago, petevasey said:

Hi, John,

You seem to like the Esprit 150  very much!  How's it going after 18 months?  If you have a look at my thread here, you will see (towards the end) that I'm considering an Esprit 150 to replace my RC10.  I already have a Meade 127 which is I believe much the same as an ES 127,  and yes, it's pretty good.  But I would hope the 150 would replace both the RC10 and the Meade.  One particular question.  You mention that the bare tube weight is 12Kg rather than 14.5 - can you still confirm that?   It would be very useful to be able to use the 150 on my EQ6 'Star Party' mount.  If I do go for the 150, I would certainly choose the Es Reid route, and probably make the round trip to collect it even though I live in Northumberland - worth it imho to keep the considerable investment safe!

Cheers,

Peter

I've had Esprits visit and produce fine results but can't help compare the Meade 127 with the Esprit. However, I can compare the 127 with the TEC140 since I had the 127 and now have a 140 and also use another example. The big difference is in star quality. My Meade bloated quite significantly in blue and, by not focusing all wavelengths so accurately, gave unpredictable star colour. I'm sure the Esprit will show the same advantages over the 127.

Olly

[petevasey]

Thanks, Olly,

Yes I agree - I've noticed with my 127 that when the RGB frames are combined, very often the brighter white stars have blue halos.  Easily removed in software, but there nevertheless.  Apart from that the visual star tests are very good - virtually identical either side of focus and tight pinpoints in focus, collimation is spot on.  Quite a lot of images on my web site main page - just search for '127'  and you'll see what I mean.  But here are a couple of links, one showing the halos  taken last August , one narrow band from 2017 which better shows the good definition without star bloat.

Cheers,

Peter

Edited June 24, 2021 by petevasey

[johnturley]

On 23/06/2021 at 11:36, petevasey said:

Hi, John,

You seem to like the Esprit 150  very much!  How's it going after 18 months?  If you have a look at my thread here, you will see (towards the end) that I'm considering an Esprit 150 to replace my RC10.  I already have a Meade 127 which is I believe much the same as an ES 127,  and yes, it's pretty good.  But I would hope the 150 would replace both the RC10 and the Meade.  One particular question.  You mention that the bare tube weight is 12Kg rather than 14.5 - can you still confirm that?   It would be very useful to be able to use the 150 on my EQ6 'Star Party' mount.  If I do go for the 150, I would certainly choose the Es Reid route, and probably make the round trip to collect it even though I live in Northumberland - worth it imho to keep the considerable investment safe!

Cheers,

Peter

Hi Peter

Yes, I've been quite pleased with the Esprit 150 over the last 20 months, the only downside I've found with it is the focusing mount, which I found slipped when the scope was in a near vertical position. I've since managed to adjust it a bit by tightening some Allen headed bolts on the drawtube, but the problem is if you tighten them too much then the fine focus knob does not work, and too slack it only works in the downward direction. Its also fiddly to adjust, and there are no instructions regarding this in the manual. At one time you could specify a factory fitted Feathertouch focuser, but this no longer appears to be the case, I did think of purchasing one to retro fit, but was worried that this could affect the collimation, which according to Es Reid is very good, the star images are certainly good, I had a nice view of Castor one night last winter with nice diffraction rings and no blue bloating. If you want to use an electronic focuser I think you will need  better focusing mount.

I compared the views of Mars through the Esprit 150, and my 14in Newtonian quite a bit last autumn, and most nights the Esprit gave the sharper view, I can only recall one night, when the view through the 14in was better, and that was with using a ZWO ADC on the 14in. Back in 1988 I was able to compare the view through the 14in with one of the early (pre Starfire) Astro Physics 6in f8 Refractors, and most nights then the 14 in gave the better view, plus the AP Refractor gave an annoying purple halo around Mars. On Saturn the Cassini Division was also sharper in the Esprit, although not unexpectedly I could see more moons through the larger reflector. On Jupiter again the cloud belts were generally sharper through the Esprit, although the GRS and satellite shadows showed up better through the 14in.  Both Jupiter an Saturn were of course very low down last year, and I may get better results through the 14in when they move higher up. 

I have recently purchased a ZWO ASI 462 Planetary Camera, plus a new laptop (with an Intel i7 processor), and hope to get some good results on Jupiter and Saturn later this year, I will use this mainly with the Esprit, as being piggyback mounted on the 14in, the focuser stays in a much more convenient position compared to the Newtonian, so with the ZWO camera attached, I can keep the laptop on a shelf in my observatory shed.  

Regarding the weight I think it was definitely around 12 - 12.5 kg, without the tube rings, star finder, and finder bracket.

John