AZGTi problems...

[Greymouser]

I was not sure which section to put this, but this seemed favourite, because it is such an obvious starter mount, and I have just got it and only now found time to give it a whirl!

It seems to me that there are a lot of people who have problems with this mount, at least to start with, is there a problem with them, or is it just the awful manual that is supplied? Or perhaps just stupid people like me? Anyway, hopefully my issues will be sorted, without a return to FLO. 

Last night was the first since receiving the mount, that I had a clear night that coincided with me having time to give it a go. ( Since getting the adapter for my Horizon tripod, because the lightweight one I bought is not up to the job. ) So I read the online synscan manual linked elsewhere here, and started to give it a go. I chose Altair as a first alignment star, which seemed a good choice considering the position of it. Problem number one, it refused to accept that I was pointing at it, in fact it seemed to be assuming that it was in fact far way away from where I could in fact see it: Almost vertically downwards! I continued to have similar problems, and after about an hour and a half, gave up as clouds were rolling and and I was beginning to ache.

Fast forward to this morning, I thought I would try again, this time in tracking the sun, ( this is one of the purposes of getting this mount. ) I got my spirit level and compass out, just to make sure I was as accurate as possible with the starting position, then proceeded to try to align with the sun. This time the mount judged the azimuth position of the sun about right, but put the altitude about 30 degrees higher that it was in fact, if you see what I mean. I then out of curiosity tried to GOTO the moon and again the azimuth seemed to be about right, but the altitude was again too high. Lastly out of curiosity, I tried for Dubhe, which I obviously could not see, but it went to the right Azimuth, approximately, but this time the altitude was below where the Sky Safari software put it! 

Any ideas anyone? What am I doing wrong and is there a way to avoid a return?

It is now of course raining, but there is a bit of clearness forecast for later, so I will probably get the 102 ST out with the wedge and have a go for the sun again. I have no idea when I will get the chance at the night sky again.

 

[Knighty2112]

Have you got the correct location set for the app you are using to control the mount? Had similar issue with my old Celestron goto mount if location is not set correctly.

[Star Struck]

Firstly are you attaching via wireless or using a synscan handset?

I have worked out when using this mount, when you do star alignment you have to make sure that your last movement use the "up" and "right" arrows. Once you have done this, it will give you the chance to click on the tick to confirm your alignment star is correct. If you do not do this then you will not be able to confirm the alignment.

The clues to most things are in the synscan handbook but you have to dig around a bit.

Tony

 

[Greymouser]

Yes I put the correct latitude and longitude in, so not that.

I am using the app ( SynScan Pro 1.17 ) and it was not letting click on the confirmation button. Yes I was using up and right as the last movements.

Edited September 1, 2019 by Greymouser

[Steve Clay]

Is the altitude clutch done up tight. Also are you using batteries or external power.

What firmware do you have. If you've installed the right arm Eq firmware and have put the scope on the left side it will be out and tracking wont work.

Steve

 

 

[Star Struck]

Let me ask what may look like a stupid question.

When you say your last movements were up and right, was that based on

1. The movement you could see through the eyepiece?

or

2. The physical right and left keys on the app?

[Steve Clay]

10 minutes ago, Star Struck said:

Let me ask what may look like a stupid question.

When you say your last movements were up and right, was that based on

1. The movement you could see through the eyepiece?

or

2. The physical right and left keys on the app?

Physical up and right key on the app.

[Star Struck]

Sorry for the confusion.

I was directing the question at the OP.

[Greymouser]

To answer questions: Yes I think the clutch was tightened sufficiently, but will check tomorrow. ( I tried to be careful though, knowing I can be heavy handed. ) I intended to try again later today, but it has been a long day and even though there was unforecast clearness, I was/am just way too tired. I did in fact mean using the keys on the app. I have no idea what the firmware version is, nor am I sure where to find that information, but will, again, look tomorrow. I was using brand new batteries, which I checked the charge of beforehand: they were fine and Duracell. I am using it, or trying to, in Alt Az mode only and not even thinking of the other at the moment.

My intention was to use decent AA batteries to start with, just to get a taste as it were, then get a proper battery. I do notice that in the manual it claims that the lead needs to be centre positive, but FLO states tip positive, a contradiction that is indicative, imo, of a very poor manual. 

[Steve Clay]

9 hours ago, Greymouser said:

To answer questions: Yes I think the clutch was tightened sufficiently, but will check tomorrow. ( I tried to be careful though, knowing I can be heavy handed. ) I intended to try again later today, but it has been a long day and even though there was unforecast clearness, I was/am just way too tired. I did in fact mean using the keys on the app. I have no idea what the firmware version is, nor am I sure where to find that information, but will, again, look tomorrow. I was using brand new batteries, which I checked the charge of beforehand: they were fine and Duracell. I am using it, or trying to, in Alt Az mode only and not even thinking of the other at the moment.

My intention was to use decent AA batteries to start with, just to get a taste as it were, then get a proper battery. I do notice that in the manual it claims that the lead needs to be centre positive, but FLO states tip positive, a contradiction that is indicative, imo, of a very poor manual. 

Agree the manual is worse than useless. I would update the firmware and see if that works. It's simple to do

http://www.skywatcher.com/download/software/motor-control-firmware/

First you will need ti install the firmware loader on a pc/ laptop then download the firmware version. Connect to the mount by WiFi. Then launch the loader, select the file then upload. 

Steve

[johninderby]

All Skywatcher mounts that use a regular power connector are centre positive. The centre of the plug is called the tip so FLO is not contradicting the manual.. 

Edited September 2, 2019 by johninderby

[Greymouser]

Thanks, but could someone please tell me how to find the current firmware installed? Also I would rather avoid trying to update the firmware, considering the many people who have had problems trying to do this and the fact that my two PC's both have hardwired network connection and no wifi. I do have a very old laptop running XP with wifi, which I would rather avoid.

I will be honest, I do not really have the time nor much patience to be messing with this for too long, I have little doubt I will soon give in and either try to return it, or write the money off, which will be very annoying. Is it asking to much to expect a new mount to work first time? Obviously I am being naive here.   

Any other suggestions to save my sanity?

Edit: Also looking at it, where do I find the firmware loader? I seem to be only find the loader for doing the hand controller...

Edited September 2, 2019 by Greymouser

[AdeKing]

49 minutes ago, Greymouser said:

Edit: Also looking at it, where do I find the firmware loader? I seem to be only find the loader for doing the hand controller...

http://www.skywatcher.com/download/software/motor-control-firmware/

The WiFi and non WiFi versions of the firmware loader should be available there. 

I think the current firmware version is shown when you click the "MC Version" button in the firmware loader when the mount is connected, I'm not sure how you find it otherwise. 

[Star Struck]

Open the synscan app.

On the first page select Utility, once that has displayed a new page select Information.

The mount firmware is indicated by the label Motor board.

[AdeKing]

1 hour ago, Star Struck said:

Open the synscan app.

On the first page select Utility, once that has displayed a new page select Information.

The mount firmware is indicated by the label Motor board.

I found that page when playing about with my mount earlier but the mount board section was empty on my app. 

The only software version I could see was for the SynScan App itself with v1.17. 

Edit: Last app update reverted default connection method to emulator hence why no motor board version displayed.  Changed to WiFi connection and the mount firmware version is displayed. Thanks for the information. 

Edited September 2, 2019 by AdeKing
Adding information

[fireballxl5]

I found that I had to enable the secondary encoder to get reliable pointing, so this is always the first thing I do after powering the mount.

[Greymouser]

Thanks, good stuff to try, when I next get some clear sky, which maybe tomorrow. ( If I haven't just jinxed it! )

One thing does occur to me though, I was using the pro version of the app, because I wanted to track the sun, which is not allowed on the other version of the app. The thing that popped into my head, is that this states that it is mainly for EQ mounts, though it does say alt az too, the other version of the app just says alt az. The Pro version does acknowledge that it is connected to an alt az, but I was wondering if this could be part of the problem, or maybe I am just at this point, grasping at straws? Anyway, I have downloaded the other version of the app and will try that too.

[Star Struck]

You are grasping at straws. I use the Pro version of the app with my AzGti with no problems. It works for me on Windows, Android and iOS. My firmware on the mount is 3.16 so four releases out of date. Having read the horror stories people have had updating it, I have been loathed to try it.

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Star Struck

[Star Struck]

As an aside, when I use it to view or photo the sun, I do not use go to. I manually align it on the sun and use the point and track function. Works fairly well and tracks well enough for my needs. I still do the North and level alignment manually before turning the mount on.

[Greymouser]

Had another go tonight, until clouds rolled in that is. I tried the suggestion of putting the other encoder on too, which whilst it helped, it did not solve the problem. Then the app lost connection to the mount.

Reconnecting, it then told me that Saturn was straight above! I wish!

It seems as best I can tell, that the firmware version is: 3.18 A5, which was odd. Having so many horror stories, I am just so reluctant to try and update the firmware. Under the alignment section of the app was the following: ID=6378.9  CH=0.0'  NP=0.0'  MEL=0.0'  MAZ=11.7'  TILT= 6378.9  
I have no idea if this is in anyway relevant, but I thought I would add it, just in case.

To be honest I am getting fed up already with having to mess with this new mount and think an e mail is due to be sent to FLO. I just need/needed, to make sure the mount was faulty, before entering that route. I just do not have enough spare time to waste it, on trying to fettle a new mount.

[Greymouser]

I need to update this thread.

I returned the mount to FLO, which all seemed painless and easy enough. Rob gave it some attention, then returned it to me via DPD. So far, so good.

I got the chance tonight to give it another try, with an unexpected window in the clouds. Nothing has changed. It still, will not GOTO at all accurately, will track to an extent, but not very well, or for very long. I did level it and aimed the OTA North, before starting and tried a three star alignment, without success. I have no idea what I am doing wrong. I also have no idea what fault Rob found. I did not do a firmware update before retuning it as I was very unsure of success.

I have read of quite a few other people having issues with this mount and cannot help wondering if Skywatcher have quality control issues. I am also not impressed with the app. offered by them either, it is in my opinion, inferior to the one offered by Celestron, even though they belong to the same parent company! There is way too much white writing within the app, which spoils my night vision.

I am left feeling as if I have a right lemon here and am beginning to regret getting this mount.

[heliumstar]

There are serious quality control issues with this mount. While my latest version (fifth I bought - don't ask lol) is fine and goto is accurate there was one that was total rubbish, two that were sometimes ok and sometimes not and another one that was spot on as this latest one I have now. I bought mine from FLO, TringAstro, AstroShop.eu and twice second hand. Two best were from 102 Mak package from FLO and standalone from AstroShop.eu - it looks like a lottery to me then huh...

I never bother with OTA North or three star alignment. What works for me with the 'good ones' is level the tripod and mount, 1 star alignment and then goto to two objects and confirm. After that every object is in the FOV. That is also my aim. To be ready in a minute. I only have hour or two windows when I can observe and every minute counts.

While there are issues I encountered and read about I still love this mount. There's nothing like it available anywhere else - not in the price range and not in this form. I would gladly buy something out of this world in quality and accuracy terms and in the same form factor even if the price was 10x. I was head on RST-135 but read of similar issues so this nut looks like it's hard to crack.

 

[Greymouser]

14 hours ago, heliumstar said:

There are serious quality control issues with this mount. While my latest version (fifth I bought - don't ask lol) is fine and goto is accurate there was one that was total rubbish, two that were sometimes ok and sometimes not and another one that was spot on as this latest one I have now. I bought mine from FLO, TringAstro, AstroShop.eu and twice second hand. Two best were from 102 Mak package from FLO and standalone from AstroShop.eu - it looks like a lottery to me then huh...

I never bother with OTA North or three star alignment. What works for me with the 'good ones' is level the tripod and mount, 1 star alignment and then goto to two objects and confirm. After that every object is in the FOV. That is also my aim. To be ready in a minute. I only have hour or two windows when I can observe and every minute counts.

While there are issues I encountered and read about I still love this mount. There's nothing like it available anywhere else - not in the price range and not in this form. I would gladly buy something out of this world in quality and accuracy terms and in the same form factor even if the price was 10x. I was head on RST-135 but read of similar issues so this nut looks like it's hard to crack.

 

Very good post, couldn't agree more.

I have already contacted Rob at FLO and he has been very helpful, offering to help me sort it, or even accept the mount back and refund me the money. Which is all well and good, but I agree with you, the concept of this mount is just so wonderful, I would only order another one. Then maybe another, etc., etc. I intend to try a couple more things then will attempt to get a viable one, I have no wish to give in with it. Your experience with only getting one great one out of five, is not very encouraging, but at least the good ones do exist!  

[heliumstar]

Sorry for not explaining properly. Out of 5 there were 2 that were really good. The one that came with 102 Mak and this latest one I ordered from AstroShop.eu - so some 40% success rate. Additional two were with minds of their own - sometimes working and sometimes not and one never worked for me.

In my opinion it's worth trying a few since you'll eventually end up with the one that is accurate every time. Numbers game

[Greymouser]

Another update.

I had an unexpected clear spell tonight, so gave my second AZGTi another go. Much better this time, got better and better, not perfect, but at least it was quite close in GOTO, mostly in the FOV. Still behaving oddly in some ways, but a huge improvement. Unlike past times, the tracking was almost perfect and everything improved after engaging the second encoder. It did still seem to be stuck in alignment mode for the whole session, but maybe that is a problem with settings. Anyway, I am feeling much better now about take 2, oddness aside! It must be haunted!!

I do have another problem though. I got a Skywatcher AZ mount extension tube, to make it easier to attach a refractor. The problem with this is that the male connector on the top is recessed and I could see no way to get it out, as it were. Assuming I needed to remove the top, to get at the mechanism, I tried to do so. It did not come off though, turned somewhat, but then jammed. Anyone any idea how to get this working? ( Yes I did remove the bolt things first. )