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msacco

First cooled camera

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Hi guys, I'm looking for my first cooled camera and would like to hear some suggestions.

The camera is mainly for DSO's.

The 294MC looks like an awesome option, but I wonder if there's something better.

I know the 071 should be awesome, but I'm not sure if 1500$ would be the amount I want to spend on a camera as it's rather expensive, and I wonder if the extra 500$ are worth it.

Of course feel free to suggeat other models as well.

Thanks! I'll probably buy it tomorrow.

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5 hours ago, msacco said:

know the 071 should be awesome, but I'm not sure if 1500$ would be the amount I want to spend on a camera as it's rather expensive, and I wonder if the extra 500$ are worth it.

One in the for sale section here

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Allinthehead said:

One in the for sale section here

Hmm I'll give it a shot, I'm actually not from the US but I'm here on a trip by chance, so let's see if we can make it possible.

Edited by msacco

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29 minutes ago, msacco said:

Hmm I'll give it a shot, I'm actually not from the US but I'm here on a trip by chance, so let's see if we can make it possible.

The seller is in the UK. You should check out the classified forum on Cloudy Nights if you are a member there.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Icesheet said:

The seller is in the UK. You should check out the classified forum on Cloudy Nights if you are a member there.

Oh, that's not very useful then unless he can ship it?

So back to the original idea, what would you recommend me?

Edited by msacco

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Posted (edited)

There are a plethora of cameras available these days so I’ll not recommend any one as it would depend on a few things. 

 

First thing I would decide is colour or mono. You could read until the end of time on here what is best. Just pick what you think suits your likely imaging preferences 

 

Then you really are better pairing a camera with your existing scope (and any you plan for the near future). What you are really looking for is a resolution that will suit your set up and likely seeing conditions. I recommend going to Astronomy Tools.net and using the CCD suitability tab and plug in different camera/ telescope set ups to see.

 

If you do that you will have narrowed down the options quite a bit. Good luck!

 

Edited by Icesheet

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5 hours ago, Icesheet said:

There are a plethora of cameras available these days so I’ll not recommend any one as it would depend on a few things. 

 

First thing I would decide is colour or mono. You could read until the end of time on here what is best. Just pick what you think suits your likely imaging preferences 

 

Then you really are better pairing a camera with your existing scope (and any you plan for the near future). What you are really looking for is a resolution that will suit your set up and likely seeing conditions. I recommend going to Astronomy Tools.net and using the CCD suitability tab and plug in different camera/ telescope set ups to see.

 

If you do that you will have narrowed down the options quite a bit. Good luck!

 

Thanks I'll look into it. Tbh I'm not really sure about mono/color, as I don't really know the advantages of each one.

All I know is that with mono I'll also need to spend a nice budget on good filters as well, which I'm not really sure I'd want, but still need to think further about it.

If you could point out some relevant points for each mono/color that would be very useful. Also, does mono/colors makes any difference with the scope I'm using?

Thanks :)

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Hi, 

a mono camera is more sensitive than a one shot color camera, but you'll have to put in more work to get that one color picture, LRGB for example means 4 times the work compared to OSC.

As you mention, the extra filters do break the bank.

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1 hour ago, Miguel1983 said:

Hi, 

a mono camera is more sensitive than a one shot color camera, but you'll have to put in more work to get that one color picture, LRGB for example means 4 times the work compared to OSC.

As you mention, the extra filters do break the bank.

As far as I understand the LRGB filtering is not taking really longer than OCS imaging, but for me the money is the main issue here, and I'd also rather have my first cooled camera usage as simply as I can.

Currently leaning towards the 071mc, but the 294mc should be awesome as well, and there's quite a price gap between the 2.

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, msacco said:

Thanks I'll look into it. Tbh I'm not really sure about mono/color, as I don't really know the advantages of each one.

All I know is that with mono I'll also need to spend a nice budget on good filters as well, which I'm not really sure I'd want, but still need to think further about it.

If you could point out some relevant points for each mono/color that would be very useful. Also, does mono/colors makes any difference with the scope I'm using?

Thanks :)

I don't really want to influence you re mono/ colour except to say that if you plan to do narrowband I would go mono. Apparently it can be done with OSC but not straight forward.

 

I checked the cameras you mentioned above plus the another popular ZWO the ASI 1600mm against your scope (SW 200P right?). Here's a snap from astronomy tools with M45 as an example for FOV.

 

With all these cameras you will have a resolution <1"/px. My first instinct is that will ask a lot of your mount and tracking at 1000mm focal length. With that being said, if you can spare the extra cash, I think I would go for the ASI071. Gives you the best FOV and is also the best in terms of resolution. Even more so if you are at a dark site.

 

By the way regarding perice the ASI1600mm it is available with mini EFW and LRGB filters for the same price as the ASI071 at the moment  

 

image.png.1ae7cf7483ffc534b7147c0e98f40741.png

Edited by Icesheet

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Icesheet said:

I don't really want to influence you re mono/ colour except to say that if you plan to do narrowband I would go mono. Apparently it can be done with OSC but not straight forward.

 

I checked the cameras you mentioned above plus the another popular ZWO the ASI 1600mm against your scope (SW 200P right?). Here's a snap from astronomy tools with M45 as an example for FOV.

 

With all these cameras you will have a resolution <1"/px. My first instinct is that will ask a lot of your mount and tracking at 1000mm focal length. With that being said, if you can spare the extra cash, I think I would go for the ASI071. Gives you the best FOV and is also the best in terms of resolution. Even more so if you are at a dark site.

 

By the way regarding perice the ASI1600mm it is available with mini EFW and LRGB filters for the same price as the ASI071 at the moment  

 

image.png.1ae7cf7483ffc534b7147c0e98f40741.png

Thanks a lot for the comment! First I'll add up on my equipment, I currently have the 200p, but will probably soon get a CPC1100 with wedge and hyperstar, so it would be better thinking about a fitting camera for that and not the 200p.

Now as for the 1600 kit, the mini kit 1 is the same price, but that surely won't end there. I'd also want HA, SII and so on.

Eventually that will end up much more expensive I believe. I might someday also use narrowband even with the color camera, but that's not really the plan for now.

That did made me thing more about the 1600 though, and who knows, I might just get that.

Edited by msacco

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Posted (edited)

Well I would treat the narrowband filters as a bonus available to you if you wanted later

 

If you were to go down the CPC1100 route, which is a huge step for even an experienced imager, I would upgrade your mount first for sure. Camera wise I would say the ASI071, particularly with hyperstar.

If you really want my honest opinion. Scrap the idea of a CPC1100 and get a short focal length refractor and any of the above cameras to get some good experience in widefield imaging then step up to longer focal lengths if thats what you want. I’m not saying what you’re planning can’t be done but it’s certainly not the easy route and there will likely be a lot of hair pulling getting there!

Edited by Icesheet

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2 hours ago, Icesheet said:

Well I would treat the narrowband filters as a bonus available to you if you wanted later

 

If you were to go down the CPC1100 route, which is a huge step for even an experienced imager, I would upgrade your mount first for sure. Camera wise I would say the ASI071, particularly with hyperstar.

If you really want my honest opinion. Scrap the idea of a CPC1100 and get a short focal length refractor and any of the above cameras to get some good experience in widefield imaging then step up to longer focal lengths if thats what you want. I’m not saying what you’re planning can’t be done but it’s certainly not the easy route and there will likely be a lot of hair pulling getting there!

The thing is that I also like visual observation, so I believe with the CPC1100 with wedge and hyperstar I might be able to achieve both imaging and visual observing.

I'm not thinking for a moment that it will be easy or easier, not at all, I'm well aware of the challenges, but I have the power to keep trying(with my EQ5, I didn't manage to perform star align for a year!! Until someone here helped me understand that one of my motors was not installed properly, god knows how).

One more reason is that a refractor(or equipment in general) in my country is extremely expensive, and I don't think the EQ5 would be a very good mount.

I'd probably get the CPC1100 + wedge + hyperstar in much much less than a good mount and refractor, but I still don't know what I'll do. :)

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I would have to agree with icesheet, i had my C11 GPS before i had my refractor and i even never attempted deep sky with that telescope, the polar alignment routine for a wedge for instance is not easy and that 2800mm focal length will most likely drive you crazy.

If you are new to AP i would also recommend a short focal length refractor, as will many other imagers.

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1 hour ago, Miguel1983 said:

I would have to agree with icesheet, i had my C11 GPS before i had my refractor and i even never attempted deep sky with that telescope, the polar alignment routine for a wedge for instance is not easy and that 2800mm focal length will most likely drive you crazy.

If you are new to AP i would also recommend a short focal length refractor, as will many other imagers.

Thanks, but the focal length with a hyperstar should turn the scope into f/2 which should be fairly nice.

I still don't know what I'll do, but regardless, even though it could affect the camera choice, I think it's less the discussion I'd like to have here, and focus further on what camera would be a good choice for me :)

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Found a second hand 071 cooled for 1150$, I should go for it I guess? :)

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19 hours ago, msacco said:

Found a second hand 071 cooled for 1150$, I should go for it I guess? :)

Just so long as its a pro model you really dont want the original model as it had some issues.

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4 hours ago, Adam J said:

Just so long as its a pro model you really dont want the original model as it had some issues.

Of course, it's the pro model. Bought 1 year ago, should still have warranty for 1 year though I'm not sure it transfers.

Here is a link to the ad: https://www.cloudynights.com/classifieds/item/181407-zwo-asi-071-pro-cooled-osc-astro-camera-excellent-condition/

What do you think?

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11 hours ago, msacco said:

Of course, it's the pro model. Bought 1 year ago, should still have warranty for 1 year though I'm not sure it transfers.

Here is a link to the ad: https://www.cloudynights.com/classifieds/item/181407-zwo-asi-071-pro-cooled-osc-astro-camera-excellent-condition/

What do you think?

I cant comment on US pricing but I see no issues with it. 

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3 hours ago, Adam J said:

I cant comment on US pricing but I see no issues with it. 

Well a new one is $1480, I've seen a few cheaper ones from $1000-$1150.

It's probably possible finding a cheaper seller eventually, but I only have 2 more weeks in the US, so that's probably the best I can get, obviously better than paying $1480 I guess, and he says he used it only 3 times, so that's a nice deal I'd say.

If I could ask something that's not really relevant. I've never actually performed such purchase, when do I pay, and how do I avoid being scammed(even though I highly doubt it, as he sounds really reliable)?

Do I pay first and then he sends it? Paying only after he sends it? Paying only after I recieve it?

Thanks :)

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1 minute ago, msacco said:

Well a new one is $1480, I've seen a few cheaper ones from $1000-$1150.

It's probably possible finding a cheaper seller eventually, but I only have 2 more weeks in the US, so that's probably the best I can get, obviously better than paying $1480 I guess, and he says he used it only 3 times, so that's a nice deal I'd say.

If I could ask something that's not really relevant. I've never actually performed such purchase, when do I pay, and how do I avoid being scammed(even though I highly doubt it, as he sounds really reliable)?

Do I pay first and then he sends it? Paying only after he sends it? Paying only after I recieve it?

Thanks :)

No one is going to send you a camera without taking your money first mate. I would look and see his reputation on Cloudy nights and ask to see pictures he has taken with it. Talk to the guy on the phone too perhaps. 

Just make sure he knows that he needs to get it to you in good time while you are still in the country. 

Its always a risk buying second hand but I have yet to have an issue and I have bought and sold loads of stuff. Astronomers are normally reliable types. 

Adam.

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Be aware that when you import it into your country there could well be additional taxes to pay at the Customs post.

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10 hours ago, Adam J said:

No one is going to send you a camera without taking your money first mate. I would look and see his reputation on Cloudy nights and ask to see pictures he has taken with it. Talk to the guy on the phone too perhaps. 

Just make sure he knows that he needs to get it to you in good time while you are still in the country. 

Its always a risk buying second hand but I have yet to have an issue and I have bought and sold loads of stuff. Astronomers are normally reliable types. 

Adam.

Well yeah this part always scares me, as I know myself but don't really know who I'm buying from, so 'giving away' $1150 is not very easy, but he sounds like a reliable guy with lots of good reputation, so I believe there won't be any issues :)

As for the shipping, we have already discussed about that, he still needs to check that with UPS and see if he can send it right now to a UPS office I'll be at next week, the UPS shipping is 2 days shipping and he also said that they should be able to return it to him in the worst case.

I'll ask if there's a few pictures, but I believe it should all be fine.

Thanks!

10 hours ago, pete_l said:

Be aware that when you import it into your country there could well be additional taxes to pay at the Customs post.

Yeah I'm aware of that, still thinking about the best way to get it in with no issues, I could maybe just get rid of the box and say it's a webcam or something similar and hope for some luck ^_^

In the worst case I'll just pay, still ends up much cheaper and even if I'm buying a new one I have this chance, but most of the people I know didn't end up paying.

Let me know if you have any experience with that, thanks :)

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