Really slow internet in observatory

[tooth_dr]

Last night I tried to download allskeye software but it took a long time and failed 1/2 way through. I tried several times.

I checked the speed of download and it was very slow.

Im using TP link powerline adapters, into a netgear switch, then into my pc. I turned off all other devices using the internet in my shed with no improvement. I connected the pc directly to the powerline adapter (removing the switch) and still the same download speed. I’m not great when it comes to this type of stuff, but I looked at a few properties boxes of the connection and it says 1gb per second.

I have 70mb FTTP broadband into the house.

Any suggestions as to what’s the issue? 

[discardedastro]

Powerline adapters are generally awful. While the link may report 1Gbps, that's just between you and the powerline adapter, not between adapters. Most powerline adapters in best case real-world scenarios can achieve about 100Mbps at best, and are often much worse than this. If your shed is off an extension cable or similar you've got little chance of making anything work nicely.

How far away is the shed from the house? WiFi is usually a good answer. Close up just make sure you have a good AP in your house, preferably as close as you can get to the shed; Ubiquiti's UniFi AC LR is a good cheap AP option. If you're fairly far away but can put equipment on the outside wall of house and shed, Ubiquiti do a range of low-cost point-to-point bridges, e.g. https://linitx.com/product/ubiquiti-airmax-nanostation-5ac-loco-wireless-network-bridge-ns-5acl/15217 at £50/end. If you have duct, then running a length of fibre (pre-terminated) is pretty straightforward and definitely is the best option.

[knobby]

Powerline aren't too bad if on the same ring, I have one near the main router - one in the kitchen at back of house and a cheap access point cabled to it which then reaches the garage fairly reliably.

100 meg at router, about 70 at kitchen powerline and 50-60 in garage.

[Bruce Leeroy]

Did you test broadband speeds using the speedtest.net website? I use powerline adapters over a very long extension reel and I find I get about a 50% drop in broadband speeds at my shed compared to my house, if you try the speedtest website note which optimal server it selects and run the test a number of times to see that your getting a consistent test result....if someone is streeming a movie/youtube video during these tests it will have a small impact on the results.

Run the test from the house then try the tests in your shed using the same optimal server for consistent results. HTH

 

[Peter Drew]

If anything reduces our broadband speed then we would have none!     🙄

[JamesF]

I've been trying powerline units to get network connectivity to my observatory and have struggled.  For the moment I'm relying on wifi, which isn't great either.  Running a physical connection is my ultimate goal.  There is some discussion about it in recent posts in my DIY obsy thread.

James

[tooth_dr]

23 minutes ago, discardedastro said:

Powerline adapters are generally awful. While the link may report 1Gbps, that's just between you and the powerline adapter, not between adapters. Most powerline adapters in best case real-world scenarios can achieve about 100Mbps at best, and are often much worse than this. If your shed is off an extension cable or similar you've got little chance of making anything work nicely.

How far away is the shed from the house? WiFi is usually a good answer. Close up just make sure you have a good AP in your house, preferably as close as you can get to the shed; Ubiquiti's UniFi AC LR is a good cheap AP option. If you're fairly far away but can put equipment on the outside wall of house and shed, Ubiquiti do a range of low-cost point-to-point bridges, e.g. https://linitx.com/product/ubiquiti-airmax-nanostation-5ac-loco-wireless-network-bridge-ns-5acl/15217 at £50/end. If you have duct, then running a length of fibre (pre-terminated) is pretty straightforward and definitely is the best option.

Thanks for reply.

 

My shed is about 9 metres from the router, but its just on the edge of wifi reception.  I have a BT hub 5 - going to ring today and see if I can get a new smart hub instead.  Using WIFI alone wouldnt work at the current set up.

My shed is wired into the consumer unit directly, and I plug the powerline adapter directly into the socket in the shed.

 

[tooth_dr]

I havent checked the internet speed in the house recently, but its fast.

[Carbon Brush]

All powerline type routers rely on putting a high frequency signal onto the mains wiring.

If the wire run is long, the cable capacitance absorbs the high frequency signal.

If there are any filters (sometimes included with surge protection) in the line, then powerline data vanishes.
Always fit an adapter on the unprotected side of any socket strips, UPS, etc.

The cable run to my observatory (a long steel wire armoured cable) completely kills powerline signals.
As it it was borderline range for the wifi I fitted an external high gain antenna to the shed.
This is a 30cm square plastic housing on the shed side. The signal improvement means I get reliable fast connection to the house.

While it is obvious that indoor aerials don't work as well as outdoor, sheds can be awful.
Wood contains a lot of moisture.
The radio frequency used by wifi adapters is close to that used for microwave ovens - chosen because it is well absorbed by water.
Throw away the shed and buy a fibreglass dome? Or buy an external aerial?

It is also useful to get a wifi signal analyser software package to see if you are in a busy wireless area.
I use a free download on a Kindle so can easily walk around the garden detecting signals from neighbouring properties and measuring their strength.

Hope this helps, David.

 

[tooth_dr]

45 minutes ago, Carbon Brush said:

All powerline type routers rely on putting a high frequency signal onto the mains wiring.

If the wire run is long, the cable capacitance absorbs the high frequency signal.

If there are any filters (sometimes included with surge protection) in the line, then powerline data vanishes.
Always fit an adapter on the unprotected side of any socket strips, UPS, etc.

The cable run to my observatory (a long steel wire armoured cable) completely kills powerline signals.
As it it was borderline range for the wifi I fitted an external high gain antenna to the shed.
This is a 30cm square plastic housing on the shed side. The signal improvement means I get reliable fast connection to the house.

While it is obvious that indoor aerials don't work as well as outdoor, sheds can be awful.
Wood contains a lot of moisture.
The radio frequency used by wifi adapters is close to that used for microwave ovens - chosen because it is well absorbed by water.
Throw away the shed and buy a fibreglass dome? Or buy an external aerial?

It is also useful to get a wifi signal analyser software package to see if you are in a busy wireless area.
I use a free download on a Kindle so can easily walk around the garden detecting signals from neighbouring properties and measuring their strength.

Hope this helps, David.

 

Thanks David. There is no danger of being in a busy WiFi area.

If I go down the WiFi route, what’s the best way to get the WiFi onto the PCs, as neither have internal receivers. 

[DaveS]

Although the PC in my platform cabinet can connect through WiFi I've run exterior grade Cat5e directly from the 24 point switch in the office. One spur runs to the platform, another to a 5 point switch in the garage, and a third is unconnected, but will run to the obsy when it is built.

[Anthonyexmouth]

5 hours ago, Carbon Brush said:

As it it was borderline range for the wifi I fitted an external high gain antenna to the shed.
This is a 30cm square plastic housing on the shed side. The signal improvement means I get reliable fast connection to the house.

 

 

+1 for the external antenna. Even better is to get a directional one. They dont cost any extra but helps filter other signals in the area. Just point it directly at your router or nearest access point in the house. Should be able to get one for £30-£50 

[Carbon Brush]

If I go down the WiFi route, what’s the best way to get the WiFi onto the PCs, as neither have internal receivers.

If there only one observatory PC, then a simple method is to use a wifi dongle (that has an aerial socket) into a USB socket.
Buy a length of aerial cable if necessary, and of course the external aerial.
Pay attention to waterproofing the aerial and connectors.
Such are the fashions in the PC marketplace, the kit I used is of course long gone so I can't show you a link!

For multiple PCs you can take a different approach.

Grab an old modem/router with several wired network sockets and has an aerial socket.
Have your observatory PC and the router near to your house PC and internet connected modem/router.

In the router setup (they are all different) configure the box as a wired & wireless router/switch box.
The exact method varies with equipment type. Not just minor variations. Setups and terminology differ considerably. 
If you don't do this regularly, you will like me find it hard work and won't get it right first time.
I sometimes think that a cauldron, eye of newt and toe of frog are useful when dealing with networks.
This is why you have everything one place - you can easily jump from one box/PC to another.
Let your main router (connected to the internet) have control over device addressing. It is DHCP.

Having sorted out everything in one room, get a high gain external aerial and put everything into the observatory.

I'm sure there are others on SGL who are more knowledgeable on networks and routers and switches.
They can guide you on the software, firmware changes, hardware dependent incantations, spells, rune interpretation and whatever else is required.

[Peter Drew]

Is anyone getting less than the 0.5 meg upload that we have to put up with whilst paying a business rate for it?    

[Waldemar]

I think nothing works better than a wired connection, but not by Powerline... 
I use a USB-Ethernet converter without any problem. 

Icron Ranger (Expensive): https://www.icronshop.com/icron-brand
Silex (Cheap): https://www.silextechnology.com/connectivity-solutions/device-connectivity/ds-600

Both work well and have a range of about 100 meters over cat6 cable. When using fibre optics, the Icron's range is 300 meters
A plus on the Silex is that it works with real USB3 as well as USB2 in the same unit, but different connections.

The Icron Ranger has different units for USB2 or USB3

[tooth_dr]

Thanks for all the replies guys I really appreciate it.

So just to update a little.  I rang BT and they are going to send me out a new Smart 2 hub, with better wifi range.  So in theory I should have a decent signal to the shed for wifi.

I currently have three PCs in the shed - two for meteors and one for imaging.  All will need internet.  I also have a switch with 8 ports (this came out of my work, when I needed a new one with 16 ports)

When the new Smart 2 hub arrives, I will then have a BT HUB 5 router at my disposal.

None of the PCs can pick up wifi as it stands.

@Carbon Brush im like you, networking I also see as sort of a black art!

 

[Carbon Brush]

50 minutes ago, Peter Drew said:

Is anyone getting less than the 0.5 meg upload that we have to put up with whilst paying a business rate for it?    

At work we are on the end of a long very old copper wire running in a ditch. No doubt well corroded by now and it has been repaired in many different places.

It used to be a 2 mile run from the exchange.
An upgrade to 'fibre to the green  box' means that we now have only 1 mile of ancient copper!
Download can be a few MB on a good day with upload usually a bit at a time.

An option is to change service provider online. Take out a domestic user bargain internet price. They don't ask you about use.
The only disadvantage is that you can't get a VAT receipt. Otherwise they will do you proud. A Plus for the interNet provider - enough of a hint?

We have partly solved it by buying a 4G data package. Expensive, data is around £1/GB monthly. But much faster than the corroded copper wire.
We certainly understand why some businesses will not move into certain areas, or decide to move out.

 

[discardedastro]

31 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

Thanks for all the replies guys I really appreciate it.

So just to update a little.  I rang BT and they are going to send me out a new Smart 2 hub, with better wifi range.  So in theory I should have a decent signal to the shed for wifi.

I currently have three PCs in the shed - two for meteors and one for imaging.  All will need internet.  I also have a switch with 8 ports (this came out of my work, when I needed a new one with 16 ports)

When the new Smart 2 hub arrives, I will then have a BT HUB 5 router at my disposal.

None of the PCs can pick up wifi as it stands.

@Carbon Brush im like you, networking I also see as sort of a black art!

 

You probably won't get much more range on the new smart hub, I'm afraid - the radiated power limits are as they were. The whole home WiFi units they do are a halfway decent mesh solution, though quite expensive for what they are to buy. The main improvement between the 5 and Smart hub 2 is the mesh capability and QAM256 in the 2.4GHz band (but that probably won't be compatible with your kit anyway - it's very odd, and primarily used for their meshing).

The neatest solution in your scenario is a WiFi bridge. This is a box that just, from a networking perspective, acts like a cable - you plug in Ethernet at one end (from your smart hub) and at the other end. You need to configure them and then they're set-and-forget. Because it's Ethernet at both ends you can plug in a switch or direct to a PC. Power is provided usually be a PoE injector at each end.

It's been a while since I used the Ubiquiti Airmax stuff but I think you can just act as a client to your smart hub with that, so that'd be a £50 solution and pretty easy to set up, otherwise you'd need two to act as a pair. USB WiFi dongles are similar price points, but won't perform as well, and of course the external unit gives you a lot of placement flexibility (as can USB with an extension lead, but that can be fiddly - USB3 in particular doesn't like extension leads).

[Rusted]

It may not directly help your cause but my laptop wireless connection was crawling and regularly dropping the connection.
That is until I moved the laptop out of the radio shadow of the mounting and OTAs.
Moving the laptop just 2' [60cm] to the left gave me 100/100Mbps wireless from our 110/110Mbps indoor [fiber] service.

My observatory is on the 2nd floor to match the height of the indoor TP-Link wireless router at least 20m away.
I read online that it helps to have both router and "receiver" on the same level.
My router is sited as close as possible to the outside wall on the same side of the house as the observatory.

All this may not directly apply to your situation but it might help others struggling with similar wireless problems.
It seems to suggest you should avoid large lumps of metal between you and the indoor router.

There are a number of free, online, internet speed checking services.
Ookla seems the most prominent but is getting increasingly "noisy" with increased popularity.
Using your own ISP's internet speed test is unlikely to be accurate according to my references.

 

[discardedastro]

1 hour ago, Peter Drew said:

Is anyone getting less than the 0.5 meg upload that we have to put up with whilst paying a business rate for it?    

On my old BT line, yes - 125kbps on a good day. Fortunately, replaced that with FTTH about five years ago - I have 2Gbps symmetrical now. Now that half the village has stopped using the copper the old BT lines have sped up quite a lot!

[tooth_dr]

I did two tests tonight on two machines:

[tooth_dr]

Its not slow tonight, and all I did was call BT earlier??

[Rusted]

It's nice to know that parts of Gravely Blighted are right at the forefront of connectivity.. from ten years ago by other nation's standards.
Time to get Google to fly a few bal-Loons over the backwaters?

[skybadger]

I I run a set of TPLink powerline adapters around the house , covers the blackspots for internal  reception and goes out via the spur to the obbo, which runs it's own local Access Point for the wireless sensors I have in there. 

That works perfectly well at up to 150Mbps on a 500Mbps adapter. The adapter in the obbo has three outlets, one to the PC, one to the web relay and a spare. No fuss, no bother. Don't see why you can't do the same. Spur length is about 30m.

 

[StarryEyed]

get a WiFi extender and stick it high up in the loft. One that will connect to your existing WiFi and extend it. Put this one directly over your access point in the house but with no obvious metal obstructions. Go in the garden and find a quite channel not the same as your existing AP.  fix your extender to this channel. I get a WiFi connection 50m from the house. Irrespective of all the neighbours WiFi. In the garden garage and front of the house. I full bandwidth connections. Only use this for connections outside keep it free for that purpose alone.

Netgear do some nice and cheap ones.

Edited August 20, 2019 by StarryEyed