Need advice for first scope

[dweller25]

@Wavseeker

You have a lot of conflicting requirements that no one scope will satisfy.

Whilst they are good scopes a C6 evo will not show anywhere near the views an orion xx10/12 will. 

I would suggest that for now you look for a scope that for a small financial outlay will be portable and easy to use whilst allowing you to build viewing experience so you can then fine tune your decision for what you want to do next.......

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-heritage-130p-flextube.html

 

 

Edited August 12, 2019 by dweller25

[Cosmic Geoff]

Wavseeker- I urge you in the strongest possible terms to stop looking at high-end scopes like the 12" Dob and the 6" Evo SCT, and buy or borrow a small inexpensive portable scope and get some practical experience with it.  After that you can make a sensible decision on what sort of scope to get next. 

And don't imagine that anything other than a specialist scope on a heavy mount will be much use for astrophotography, even if you spend a lot of money.  You can put a fork mount GoTo on a wedge but few people who have done it seem to think this is a good idea (unless one is talking about permanently mounting one in an observatory). 

[Datalord]

More to echo what others have said. Drop the notion of AP for any of the scopes you are considering. The Celestron 6 has a focal length of 1500mm, which is really bloody long for a relatively flimsy mount on a wedge. Add to it that it is an f10 and you have to take at least 300s exposures to get good results and you have a recipe for disappointment.

If you want to go for AP in any sense, under heavy light pollution, you must have a large aperture, fast scope on an eq, shooting many short exposures. That can be achieved with a newtonian. This is not a simple instrument, but if you go for, say 1000 * 10s exposures, you can get really nice results and the mount doesn't have to be too accurate.

I'm not trying to put your dreams to rest, but merely setting expectations. Here's my very first picture from my celestron 6 evolution. I could probably process it vastly better today, but this is what you can expect to get as a complete beginner:

This image cost me a wedge and accessories to connect a camera to the scope.

[Wavseeker]

okay so considering all of the bits of advice that im getting i want to clarify some things as well as the general direction im heading into

- this is going to be a gift from my girlfriend and her budget for me is 2000 dollars or 1783 euro. i want to make full use of this when the time is right.

- AP is optional, not necessary. i don't need to show off to other people with pictures or fancy videos so visual observations will do

- i will have the opportunity to see through smaller telescopes because of my astronomy club so i dont need to buy a smaller one to begin with since i can experience different types of smaller and bigger telescopes of the three different classes and make my decision later.

that being said i am leaning towards a xx12i for the following reasons.

- i can still take pictures of the moon if i want

- big aperture (double that of the 6 evo)

- within budget (1749 euros), i can buy eyepieces later.

- 1:10 ratio fine focusing

- intelliscope model so perfect for learning the nights sky

- truss design so more portable than a XT10i which has a full tube (and no 1:10 fine focusing on the XT10i) but less portable than a schmidt cassegrain. i am still young and very active so this compromise shouldn't pose a problem but i know someone in my club who owns a 10 inch dob so i can test it out beforehand

- faster cooldown than a cassegrain becuase of active cooling?

[dweller25]

It’s a Good idea to check out your club members 10” Dobsonian 👍

Yes as you say a Newtonian will cool down faster than an SCT due to active cooling and will also continue to closely match dropping temperatures during the evening better.

Edited August 12, 2019 by dweller25

[Wavseeker]

2 minutes ago, dweller25 said:

It’s a Good idea to check out your club members 10” Dobsonian 👍

i think another member has a 8 inch schmidt cassegrain

[Datalord]

1 hour ago, Wavseeker said:

that being said i am leaning towards a xx12i for the following reasons.

- i can still take pictures of the moon if i want

With those reasons, I would tend to agree. And you can also take images of planets as they are best done with "lucky" video captures. But don't set your hopes up for deep sky AP, for that you need a very different setup.

Good luck with it!

[2STAR]

On 27/07/2019 at 02:18, Wavseeker said:

Ladies and gentleman, 

Thank you for helping me in advance. 

As a kid I've always been fascinated with the sky and what was in it. The nights sky is filled with beautiful stars and nebulae and I want to see them for myself and be amazed how insignificant we really are compared to this vast open space. So let me adress some of the key points that I want for a first scope.

1. Around €1000

2. Big aperture, I want to see as much as possible and as far as possible while not losing a clear image

3. I would like to have a push to or go to system

4. Beginner friendly

5. Size is not a problem 

8. I prefer reflectors since it seems they give more aperture for the money but if you know a better scope that sees more with less aperture let me know

9. I have a Canon 550D and maybe I could use this for a bit of astrophotography. This is last on the list tho and can be scrapped if the first 3 points aren't met

Of course build quality is very important when making my choice so keep that in mind as well.

I'm looking forward to you guys advice. 

 Happy stargazing and clear skies! 

Hi, If your sky is anything like here in the UK, then you do not get that many good nights per year, studying the night sky is an option if you live in a good area with not many clouds like here in UK North, forget getting a small scope or binoculars.

[Wavseeker]

21 minutes ago, 2STAR said:

Hi, If your sky is anything like here in the UK, then you do not get that many good nights per year, studying the night sky is an option if you live in a good area with not many clouds like here in UK North, forget getting a small scope or binoculars.

what area of the UK are you in?

[dweller25]

2 hours ago, Wavseeker said:

i think another member has a 8 inch schmidt cassegrain

I compared an 8” Newtonian to a C8 a few years ago.....

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/134458-jupiter-1st-feb-2012-c8-v-8-newt/

[Wavseeker]

newtonian wins

1 minute ago, dweller25 said:

I compared an 8” Newtonian to a C8 a few years ago.....

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/134458-jupiter-1st-feb-2012-c8-v-8-newt/

 

[Cosmic Geoff]

I think that my C8 SCT performs better than my 8" Newtonian.  Certainly some people may think otherwise, on trying other pairs of instruments.  In any case, I think that with good instruments the difference should be minor.

There are a number of other reasons for choosing one or the other - initial cost, size and weight, convenience of use when observing, depth of focus adjustment, cost of an adequate mount and so forth. 

[2STAR]

On 12/08/2019 at 18:43, Wavseeker said:

what area of the UK are you in?

West Yorkshire

[Wavseeker]

4 hours ago, 2STAR said:

West Yorkshire

you have a big national park tho to the north of you

[Louis D]

@WavseekerBe aware of how big and bulky the xx12i is.  It weighs 84 pounds assembled and the heaviest component weighs 50 pounds.  If you don't have a decent sized car to transport it, it will only get used from your light polluted backyard.  If you do transport it by car, it will take up quite a bit of space.  This isn't such a big issue in the US if you own a Chevy Suburban, but most cars in Europe tend to be somewhat smaller.

For travel, I would recommend either a 3" or 4" ED refractor or a 5" to 8" Mak or SCT.  Remember that Maks and SCTs have long focal lengths, so you won't be able to achieve low power views of larger objects.  I would start smaller because the smaller scopes tend to get used more.  If you find you like astronomy, then move up to a bigger scope in the future if you want to see more planetary and DSO detail.  You'll still have the smaller scope for grab and go usage.

[PlanetGazer]

Don't you think a 12 inch non-GoTo is not the perfect starter scope? sorry I don't want to put you off or sound negative, but I think it's better if you check this exact scope at a store or better the the local club/community before buying. This is a truss scope, which I assume you have to assemble and de-assemble it every time you move + not the most convenient portable scope for a beginner.

[Ships and Stars]

If you don't have a car and don't have to go up and down stairs, then it doesn't matter how big the scope is 🤣 You are young and presumably in better physical shape than I am, your eyes won't get any better as you get older and finally, you only live once. Go for the 12" dob but look at a 10" 254mm first just to understand the size. I't s not that daunting in my mind, just depends on how much you can lift comfortably, bearing in mind you are holding a very expensive mirror and not just a big sack of potatoes if you drop it! Otherwise, buy a smaller scope and see if it is a hobby you want to stay with. The hardest part is the light pollution in your area, but exact location can make a big difference.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Ships and Stars
clarify

[2STAR]

On 15/08/2019 at 02:06, Wavseeker said:

you have a big national park tho to the north of you

It still gets Cloudy lol, we manage around 12 to 15 nights good sky per year.

Eric

[Louis D]

On 19/08/2019 at 08:27, 2STAR said:

It still gets Cloudy lol, we manage around 12 to 15 nights good sky per year.

Eric

Dang, move to west Texas or New Mexico and multiply that by at least 10.  That, and you'll be quite a bit further south with much darker and drier skies.

[Louis D]

On 10/08/2019 at 20:49, Louis D said:

Optcorp is OPT, Oceanside Photo and Telescope.  They're one of the oldest and best astro retailers in the US.  The recently closed their retail store, so now they only do in person visits by appointment only.  They list their new address as 2245 Camino Vida Roble, Suite 102, Carlsbad, CA 92011.

OPT came under new management some years back.  Their service was going downhill already when the pandemic hit.  Their business model did not allow them to weather the storm, and they are now in liquidation bankruptcy.  There are now maybe half a dozen dedicated astro vendors in the US.