bino or just a small scope?

[msacco]

Hey guys, I'm thinking about getting a pair of binoculars or just a small scope(like 70-100mm?).

The main purpsoe of that would be to simply see what objects I can locate without having to drag my telescope outside to the garden, also learn some of the sky structures and just a smaller and joyful bino/telescope I could use when I don't feel like dragging out my telescope.

I'm not really into spending much on it, probably around the 50-80$ mark.

For example, something like this:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32787580912.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.15.2837528fjJeDj5&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0%2Csearchweb201602_5_10065_10068_319_10059_10884_317_10887_10696_321_322_10084_453_10083_454_10103_10618_10307_537_536%2Csearchweb201603_60%2CppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=a65d1a3a-f7b4-4238-95fa-f43f0ca635d8-2&algo_pvid=a65d1a3a-f7b4-4238-95fa-f43f0ca635d8

Compared to something like this:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32859546208.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.142.21625319KjR2nH&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0%2Csearchweb201602_5_10065_10068_319_10059_10884_317_10887_10696_321_322_10084_453_10083_454_10103_10618_10307_537_536%2Csearchweb201603_60%2CppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=77db913e-d47e-4833-b48c-0824742f4429-22&algo_pvid=77db913e-d47e-4833-b48c-0824742f4429

(These are just 2 random items I've found, just to get the general idea).

Obviously I'm not expecting much out of it, just something nice to enjoy at time.

Any recommendations? Thanks

[Demonperformer]

If you get a small telescope you are still going to have to drag the mount out into the garden.

For years (decades!) I used no more than a pair of 7x50s and you can't beat them for a "grab'n'go" setup. You could possibly compromise and get a pair of 15x70s (got my pair from FLO for about £50) - these are bigger and so will show you more, but are heavier and I don't think they hand-hold well (others may disagree) but I use a cheap monopod while seated and get some very nice stable views.

[Peter Drew]

A 50$ - 80$ binocular will be a better quality instrument than a 50$ - 80$ telescope.    😀

[mark81]

I would agree that even a small scope means you have to 'think' about taking it outside, but a pair of bins is no thought at all.  I would go for either a 7x50 or what I use the most, a 10x50.  Any bigger than that and realistically you will need to Tripod mount them..

[Rick_It]

Have you a photo-tripod? I just ordered this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/koolehaoda-Professional-Monopod-Compact-Lightweight/dp/B01H0BKX9O/ref=sr_1_7

to be used with my Celestron Regal 65mm. You can purchase a small scope (spotting or astronomical, OTA only) and use an arca-swiss system, which is lighter&cheaper than the Vixen standard and it gives you a lot of choice on ali express and amazon.

My set-up will be less than 3.5kg and fully airline cabin compatible. I will leave it permanently mounted at home, so almost no set-up time (just the 30s required to extend the tripod legs). Of course, my Regal is expensive, but there are a lot of achromatic cheaper spotting / small scopes out there. Think about that!

Edited July 18, 2019 by Rick_It

[ollypenrice]

I'd keep the magnification down to 10x at most and enjoy the wide field and portability of hand held binos. My own are 8x42. That, a comfy chair, some charts and you're off!

Olly

[andrew63]

A small pair of binoculars might be the best astro upgrade you can make - enjoy the views.

 

andrew

[MaHa]

Hi msacco, 

I started observing during winter past using binoculars, after being frustrated time after time squinting into the eyepieces of small telescopes and struggling to find my targets - subsequently I just gave up in the end. 

I have found the whole experience to be far richer using two eyes, and much less frustrating! It's true that you won't obviously get the incredible details associated with a good scope and eyepiece, but nevertheless its a great experience viewing everything in context, and in their true position in the night sky in conjunction with all the other wonderful targets that are available for you to see using a simple pair of 10x50's or such like. 

I'd definitely go for the bins! 

Cheers, Mark. 

[Paz]

From what is described I'd recommend binoculars, they tick all the boxes for being simple and easy to use.

Personally I'd recommend 8x or 7x if you are mostly going to use them hand held.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Paz

[msacco]

Well I don't know if that's really objective asking in binoculars forums, but you kinda convinced me.

So now the question is which bino's to choose, I'll probably need to buy something from aliexpress or ebay, as amazon doesn't usually ship to Israel.

Basically, my aim is to being able to see faint objects such as andromeda from a dark site(obviously, it will be just a faint small light, but from what I understand I should be able to see it with bino's and clear skies).

My budget, as I said is around 50-80$, but if I can spare some money on that and still find something good enough, that's great.

What do you think about this:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32455834282.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.60.79bd2fa49NyWU7&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0%2Csearchweb201602_5_10065_10068_319_10059_10884_317_10887_10696_321_322_10084_453_10083_454_10103_10618_10307_537_536%2Csearchweb201603_60%2CppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=9956491f-7476-44a4-87fc-ac604573c85a-11&algo_pvid=9956491f-7476-44a4-87fc-ac604573c85a

The price seems kinda low, and the specifications looks kinda too good for that? The reviews are nice though.

Thanks!

[Lenny147]

I bought binos in the beginning, its amazing what you can see with 10x50s and the added use of using them for daytime things.

These had great reviews and at the time on here many people were recommending them, reviews speak for themselves

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Olympus-Binocular-10x50-DPS-1/dp/B0000AKGX3

Lee

[msacco]

8 minutes ago, Lenny147 said:

I bought binos in the beginning, its amazing what you can see with 10x50s and the added use of using them for daytime things.

These had great reviews and at the time on here many people were recommending them, reviews speak for themselves

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Olympus-Binocular-10x50-DPS-1/dp/B0000AKGX3

Lee

Is that the same as this:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32829632712.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.3.131f78d7MiNY1x&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0%2Csearchweb201602_5_10065_10068_319_10059_10884_317_10887_10696_321_322_10084_453_10083_454_10103_10618_10307_537_536%2Csearchweb201603_60%2CppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=1ec748b8-c577-467b-ae17-f2d823979152-0&algo_pvid=1ec748b8-c577-467b-ae17-f2d823979152

Also, should I get the 10-24x50, or the 10x50?

[mark81]

6 minutes ago, msacco said:

Is that the same as this:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32829632712.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.3.131f78d7MiNY1x&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0%2Csearchweb201602_5_10065_10068_319_10059_10884_317_10887_10696_321_322_10084_453_10083_454_10103_10618_10307_537_536%2Csearchweb201603_60%2CppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=1ec748b8-c577-467b-ae17-f2d823979152-0&algo_pvid=1ec748b8-c577-467b-ae17-f2d823979152

Also, should I get the 10-24x50, or the 10x50?

I would stick to the 10x50 rather than the zoom option.  24x50 and the image is going to be much harder to keep steady , as well as the field of view being reduced. Andromeda is easy and from a dark site the Orion nebula is incredible.

[Peter Drew]

26 minutes ago, msacco said:

Well I don't know if that's really objective asking in binoculars forums, but you kinda convinced me.

So now the question is which bino's to choose, I'll probably need to buy something from aliexpress or ebay, as amazon doesn't usually ship to Israel.

Basically, my aim is to being able to see faint objects such as andromeda from a dark site(obviously, it will be just a faint small light, but from what I understand I should be able to see it with bino's and clear skies).

My budget, as I said is around 50-80$, but if I can spare some money on that and still find something good enough, that's great.

What do you think about this:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32455834282.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.60.79bd2fa49NyWU7&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0%2Csearchweb201602_5_10065_10068_319_10059_10884_317_10887_10696_321_322_10084_453_10083_454_10103_10618_10307_537_536%2Csearchweb201603_60%2CppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=9956491f-7476-44a4-87fc-ac604573c85a-11&algo_pvid=9956491f-7476-44a4-87fc-ac604573c85a

The price seems kinda low, and the specifications looks kinda too good for that? The reviews are nice though.

Thanks!

I would definitely avoid this binocular or for that matter, any zoom binocular as they are not particularly suitable for hand held astronomy. Suitable 10x50 "conventional" binoculars which would be ideal for your purpose can be commonly found within your budget. If you find something else that interests you, get back to us for further advice. The Andromeda galaxy can be seen with the naked eye from a dark site, even better in a suitable binocular.        😀                                                                    

[msacco]

Just now, mark81 said:

I would stick to the 10x50 rather than the zoom option.  24x50 and the image is going to be much harder to keep steady , as well as the field of view being reduced. Andromeda is easy and from a dark site the Orion nebula is incredible.

Just to make sure I understand correctly though, the 10-24x could simply behave as a 10x50, but also has the option to go 24x50.

I'm really not familiar enough, but I do think about me wanting to sometimes use higher magnification than that, would the 10-24x50 and the 10x50 perform the same when both of them are on 10x?

[Peter Drew]

The low magnification range of zoom binoculars have narrow fields of view which negates the main benefit of non zoom binoculars which is their wide field.  😀

[ollypenrice]

4 minutes ago, msacco said:

Just to make sure I understand correctly though, the 10-24x could simply behave as a 10x50, but also has the option to go 24x50.

I'm really not familiar enough, but I do think about me wanting to sometimes use higher magnification than that, would the 10-24x50 and the 10x50 perform the same when both of them are on 10x?

The extra glass and complexity come at a very high cost in terms of optical quality, especially in instruments which are budget to begin with. There is no free lunch in the optics industry. Besides, you cannot possibly hand hold at 24x. On the bird forums you won't find anybody hand holding at over 10x without image stabilization.

Olly

[Ben the Ignorant]

Avoid cheap zoom binocs, they always have unusable high magnification to seem appealing to the uninformed. Their field of view is very narrow, optical quality can't be good because there are too many compromises in the components and assembly for that price.

Very small and toyish telescopes have the same problem, so they end up not being used, or sold with a big loss of value. A good binoc, on the other hand, will keep being used alonside any top-end or gigantic scope you might own later. So, look for a good 10x50 cause that's the standard for the vast majority of stargazers.

[msacco]

4 minutes ago, Peter Drew said:

The low magnification range of zoom binoculars have narrow fields of view which negates the main benefit of non zoom binoculars which is their wide field.  😀

 

Just now, ollypenrice said:

The extra glass and complexity come at a very high cost in terms of optical quality, especially in instruments which are budget to begin with. There is no free lunch in the optics industry. Besides, you cannot possibly hand hold at 24x. On the bird forums you won't find anybody hand holding at over 10x without image stabilization.

Olly

 

1 minute ago, Ben the Ignorant said:

Avoid cheap zoom binocs, they always have unusable high magnification to seem appealing to the uninformed. Their field of view is very narrow, optical quality can't be good because there are too many compromises in the components and assembly for that price.

Very small and toyish telescopes have the same problem, so they end up not being used, or sold with a big loss of value. A good binoc, on the other hand, will keep being used alonside any top-end or gigantic scope you might own later. So, look for a good 10x50 cause that's the standard for the vast majority of stargazers.

Yeah I suspected that's the reason, so now that we know we don't want a zoom bino's, what would be the best specs for a pair of bino's?

Looks like the default is pretty much 10x50, wonder what would fit me the best, any suggestions?

Once again, I can only buy on aliexpress/ebay.

[Peter Drew]

Starting to narrow this down to a result!. I'm not familiar with aliexpress/ebay offerings but most normal binoculars of the type recommended so far would be suitable. A further recommendation, avoid ones with "ruby" coatings or other weird colours and any described as fixed focus.      😀  

[Ben the Ignorant]

10 minutes ago, msacco said:

would the 10-24x50 and the 10x50 perform the same when both of them are on 10x?

No, the fixed-power 10x50 will have a larger field and sharper images. Nice features are prisms made of BaK-4 glass, multi-layer coatings, and at least 6° of real sky, which translates into 60° at the eyepiece. Fortunately good modern binocular makers provides this, and the field is even often 6.5° real (114 meters at 1000meters), 65° apparent.

See examples of this:

https://teleskop-austria.at/LA10x50exp_10x50-Lacerta-Explorer-Fernglas#m

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/all-binoculars/opticron-adventurer-10x50-t-wp-binocular.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/all-binoculars/helios-fieldmaster-50mm-binoculars.html

[ollypenrice]

29 minutes ago, msacco said:

 

 

Yeah I suspected that's the reason, so now that we know we don't want a zoom bino's, what would be the best specs for a pair of bino's?

Looks like the default is pretty much 10x50, wonder what would fit me the best, any suggestions?

Once again, I can only buy on aliexpress/ebay.

Whether you will prefer 7 or 8x or 10x is a very personal thing. When I was younger I felt OK with 10x but now I greatly prefer the image stability of 8x. Any chance of trying some to see how you feel about them?

Olly

[msacco]

19 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

Whether you will prefer 7 or 8x or 10x is a very personal thing. When I was younger I felt OK with 10x but now I greatly prefer the image stability of 8x. Any chance of trying some to see how you feel about them?

Olly

I doubt I'll be able to find somewhere I could check it, but I believe there might be some simulations around the net, if anyone might be familiar with one such as this:

https://astronomy.tools/calculators/field_of_view/

That could be cool(I haven't actually tested if that's good for my purposes, will do now).

Well yeah it seems to have a bino's mode as well  How do I determine the "actual fov" field?

Edited July 19, 2019 by msacco

[mark81]

33 minutes ago, msacco said:

I doubt I'll be able to find somewhere I could check it, but I believe there might be some simulations around the net, if anyone might be familiar with one such as this:

https://astronomy.tools/calculators/field_of_view/

That could be cool(I haven't actually tested if that's good for my purposes, will do now).

Well yeah it seems to have a bino's mode as well  How do I determine the "actual fov" field?

Most Binocular brands will be upfront about the FOV.  For a 10x50 you will get about 6degrees and maybe a little more if you go for the 7's

[Lenny147]

6 hours ago, msacco said:

Is that the same as this:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32829632712.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.3.131f78d7MiNY1x&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0%2Csearchweb201602_5_10065_10068_319_10059_10884_317_10887_10696_321_322_10084_453_10083_454_10103_10618_10307_537_536%2Csearchweb201603_60%2CppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=1ec748b8-c577-467b-ae17-f2d823979152-0&algo_pvid=1ec748b8-c577-467b-ae17-f2d823979152

Also, should I get the 10-24x50, or the 10x50?

I can only speak for the Olympus DPS1, proven quality 👍 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Lenny147