Raspberry Pi 4 for Imaging Rigs

[david_taurus83]

12 minutes ago, StarDodger said:

Trust me using an raspberry PI with INdI, is very simple, I a complete numpty when it’s comes to software and especially Linux, and I found it easy to set up if you use the superb Stellarmate OS, which is an all in one solution, and has all the hard work done, you just burn the image file to an SD card, put in the raspberry PI and power up and away you go, have a look here..you can buy your own rpi and the Stellarmate OS you don’t need to buy the whole package from here, the OS alone is $49 but it really makes it simple, and just works...

There are also free offerings of similar set ups such as Astroberry...

www.stellarmate.com

Thanks. Will it work on the new RPi 4? Do you still need a laptop to control it or is there an app to use from a tablet?

[StarDodger]

Just now, david_taurus83 said:

Thanks. Will it work on the new RPi 4? Do you still need a laptop to control it or is there an app to use from a tablet?

Won’t work on the 4 yet, you need a laptop or a tablet to control it wirelessly, and there is an app for both IOS and Android..

[david_taurus83]

8 minutes ago, StarDodger said:

Won’t work on the 4 yet, you need a laptop or a tablet to control it wirelessly, and there is an app for both IOS and Android..

Just looked on Play store and there is indeed an app. I think I'll just order a RPi3 and make it work. Otherwise I'll just hum and haw.

[stash_old]

Wireless why it just doesn't hack it - 2.4ghz is slow too prone to interference and 5ghz while being faster but limited distance - both are half the speed of Gigabyte Ethernet (dont beleive the 800mb its only on RX) and Wired doesn't suffer from latency like wifi.

Ok 1 less wire but IMO just doesn't give you the speed and can be problematic when OTA are moving around.

https://www.howtogeek.com/217463/wi-fi-vs.-ethernet-how-much-better-is-a-wired-connection/

Wireless is fine for VNC/RDP (or Internet browsing) when everything runs on 1 PC / RPI but data transfer between PC's etc it just doesn't hack it if you want speed.

If you are prepared to wait then Wifi is great and very convenient. 

[StarDodger]

21 minutes ago, stash_old said:

Wireless why it just doesn't hack it - 2.4ghz is slow too prone to interference and 5ghz while being faster but limited distance - both are half the speed of Gigabyte Ethernet (dont beleive the 800mb its only on RX) and Wired doesn't suffer from latency like wifi.

Ok 1 less wire but IMO just doesn't give you the speed and can be problematic when OTA are moving around.

https://www.howtogeek.com/217463/wi-fi-vs.-ethernet-how-much-better-is-a-wired-connection/

Wireless is fine for VNC/RDP (or Internet browsing) when everything runs on 1 PC / RPI but data transfer between PC's etc it just doesn't hack it if you want speed.

If you are prepared to wait then Wifi is great and very convenient. 

That all depends on what camera you are using, I use large sensor SX CCD Cameras, and have no issues, but I guess with newer USB 3 cameras it may be different...

[StarDodger]

2 hours ago, david_taurus83 said:

Just looked on Play store and there is indeed an app. I think I'll just order a RPi3 and make it work. Otherwise I'll just hum and haw.

The rpi3b+ is the one you want as that is the latest and works fine..other than the rpi4, but that will be a while before it supports Ubuntu..

 

[discardedastro]

Yeah, astroberry et al are sensible choices if you're not au fait with a terminal 🙂 Pi4 will be a bit more DIY for a few months probably.

Spent an hour or so fiddling about with velcro and getting everything mounted on the telescope, using an old project box to mount the Pi and 12V-to-5V/12V distribution. There's definitely a gap in the market for a "long and thin" box and some brackets to mount on an offset from a dovetail... it's a bit of a bodge but it all fits and is secure. There's only 12V and Ethernet coming onto the scope, and a cable down to the mount.

Definitely +1 to the comments on Ethernet vs WiFi - cable it up! I'd strongly suggest using a switch on or near the scope so you can use flexible cables onto the scope, "installation" cables don't flex/bend well.

[stash_old]

13 hours ago, discardedastro said:

near the scope so you can use flexible cables onto the scope, "installation" cables don't flex/bend well.

I aim to try to use these type of curly cables more expensive but very useful https://uk.farnell.com/tuk/cpr2/coiled-cord-rj45-plug-3-3m-black/dp/2779706?gclid=CjwKCAjw04vpBRB3EiwA0Iieang9AUnPzBzFq9fDLk0TMsI4k4iXEEAdbLfgcSUQP-eP7nSBzw3ueBoCbQkQAvD_BwE&gross_price=true&mckv=lFlStgdZ_dc|pcrid|78108376509|&CAWELAID=120173390002134744&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=14406255429&CMP=KNC-GUK-GEN-SHOPPING-2779706&CATCI=pla-300432182809

Same goes for OTA power cables - when I get get round to it.

[-Joe_]

On 06/07/2019 at 13:14, stash_old said:

As you are a Mac user I think the answer is yes - but it does cost - most of Cloudmakers software is based or can connect to Indigo server. http://www.cloudmakers.eu 

Been playing with indigo, since they provide an image to use, seems to have problems working with ekos - might be the driver for my mount as it just wasnt acting right (park/unpark). So I downloaded a copy of the coundmakers apps on trial - but they don't do polar alignment...

I'm heading back to building indi on raspbian and see how that is. 

[discardedastro]

11 hours ago, stash_old said:

I aim to try to use these type of curly cables more expensive but very useful https://uk.farnell.com/tuk/cpr2/coiled-cord-rj45-plug-3-3m-black/dp/2779706?gclid=CjwKCAjw04vpBRB3EiwA0Iieang9AUnPzBzFq9fDLk0TMsI4k4iXEEAdbLfgcSUQP-eP7nSBzw3ueBoCbQkQAvD_BwE&gross_price=true&mckv=lFlStgdZ_dc|pcrid|78108376509|&CAWELAID=120173390002134744&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=14406255429&CMP=KNC-GUK-GEN-SHOPPING-2779706&CATCI=pla-300432182809

Same goes for OTA power cables - when I get get round to it.

Worth noting those 8P8C cables are *not* network cables - they won't pass Cat5e/Cat6 certifications and thus may not operate properly at 100M or 1G depending on your distances. From a switch on the mount or pier to a thing on the telescope, you might get away with it, but if you're using a passive coupler (not ideal anyway) or patch panel to get back to a switch you're unlikely to make it work.

I've used https://www.canford.co.uk/CANFORD-RJ45-CAT5E-SCREENED-PATCHCORDS-Using-Cat5E-F-deployable-cable for similar sorts of things in the past - they're very flexible, cheap (~£10/cable), and being straight cables won't snag on protrusions like curly cables can sometimes. Plus they're screened, so a bit more resistant to interference from motor drivers etc.

[StarDodger]

14 hours ago, -Joe_ said:

Been playing with indigo, since they provide an image to use, seems to have problems working with ekos - might be the driver for my mount as it just wasnt acting right (park/unpark). So I downloaded a copy of the coundmakers apps on trial - but they don't do polar alignment...

I'm heading back to building indi on raspbian and see how that is. 

Indigo, DOES NOT work with ekos without errors, the developers of indigo and ekos have made it that way as there is some friction between them...

Indi on raspbian works perfectly, and so does Kstars / Ekos, I have it all on new rpi4 and raspbian buster...but it runs very hot, and will NOT work very well without a fan and a vented case..

Edited July 9, 2019 by StarDodger

[-Joe_]

13 minutes ago, StarDodger said:

Indigo, DOES NOT work with ekos without errors, the developers of indigo and ekos have made it that way as there is some friction between them...

Indi on raspbian works perfectly, and so does Kstars / Ekos, I have it all on new rpi4 and raspbian buster...but it runs very hot, and will NOT work very well without a fan and a vented case..

Yes.. the errors stopped me using it. 

From what I can see is indigo is mainly built by Peter who flogs cloudmaker software for it, and Ekos is built by Jasem who flogs stellarmate ..

i quite liked the look of the cloudmaker software, but lack of polar alignment means i’d need an indigo compatible tool for that.

I built indi from scratch yesterday, and it all ran ok, apart from the pegasus driver.. need to look at that.

Have you tried the pi4 firmware update - it’s meant to help a lot with heat and throttling.

 

Edited July 9, 2019 by -Joe_

[StarDodger]

21 minutes ago, -Joe_ said:

Yes.. the errors stopped me using it. 

From what I can see is indigo is mainly built by Peter who flogs cloudmaker software for it, and Ekos is built by Jasem who flogs stellarmate ..

i quite liked the look of the cloudmaker software, but lack of polar alignment means i’d need an indigo compatible tool for that.

I built indi from scratch yesterday, and it all ran ok, apart from the pegasus driver.. need to look at that.

Have you tried the pi4 firmware update - it’s meant to help a lot with heat and throttling.

 

Yes you are correct and those two guys seem to have some friction between them....I talk to Jasem a lot and he does a great job and is very helpful..

which pegasus drive do have issues with as I use the Pegasus UPB on INdI and works well..?

I plan on installing the firmware update today, so will let you know how I get on, a fan on the rpi4 is a must, as even at idle it overheated without one, and then throttles back to 600mhz...not good..

 

[stash_old]

12 hours ago, discardedastro said:

they won't pass Cat5e/Cat6 certifications and thus may not operate properly at 100M or 1G depending on your distances

No they work fine (no snags either) and I was talking around the mount  in an observatory NOT 100m runs from house to Obsys - which I use outside grade RJ45 Cat6 anyway - again works fine.

[stash_old]

25 minutes ago, StarDodger said:

Yes you are correct and those two guys seem to have some friction between them

Yep better time would be spent making sure the bugs in both were ironed out and stop claiming support for things that "are fully developed yet" with no clear mention of that "problem" on web site.  A Pity really more the merrier in my book.

P.S. they are just the "front men" there are others behind the scenes.

 

Still waiting for a "First Light" on RPI4 Rapbian set up 🙂

[StarDodger]

47 minutes ago, stash_old said:

Yep better time would be spent making sure the bugs in both were ironed out and stop claiming support for things that "are fully developed yet" with no clear mention of that "problem" on web site.  A Pity really more the merrier in my book.

P.S. they are just the "front men" there are others behind the scenes.

 

Still waiting for a "First Light" on RPI4 Rapbian set up 🙂

Yes I agree, if they got together they maybe could create something really special, but instead just trying to get one over on each other...and indigo guys feel that INdI guy is claiming monopoly of INdI and so that’s when indigo was born...

What I don’t understand, is how any one person can make money from an open source project, such as INdI...!

[-Joe_]

2 hours ago, StarDodger said:

which pegasus drive do have issues with as I use the Pegasus UPB on INdI and works well..?

I plan on installing the firmware update today, so will let you know how I get on, a fan on the rpi4 is a must, as even at idle it overheated without one, and then throttles back to 600mhz...not good..

 

I have the PPB, Indi just couldnt see it. It was getting late, i was tired and probably making mistakes.

I'm going to head back to a pi3 with UbuntuMate and install indi from the ppa. Stability is my main concern - will get that working and then play with my pi4 at leisure.

I'm runng the p4 inside a vented case (open sides) and with a fan .. have had no problems, installed the firmware as well.

[stash_old]

3 hours ago, StarDodger said:

Yes I agree, if they got together they maybe could create something really special, but instead just trying to get one over on each other...and indigo guys feel that INdI guy is claiming monopoly of INdI and so that’s when indigo was born...

What I don’t understand, is how any one person can make money from an open source project, such as INdI...!

Because Indi are selling Indi/Kstars/Ekos via 3rd parties - e.g. Asair,Stellarmate etc  AND Indigo are doing the same via Cloud Makers.   

We are the unpaid testers LOL. 🙂  - ok we dont pay for the software so fair do's

[sloz1664]

Seems to be a charging issue with the Pi 4.

https://liliputing.com/2019/07/lilbits-372-raspberry-pi-4-charging-issues-and-usb-c-confusion.html

Steve

[bottletopburly]

On 07/07/2019 at 14:07, david_taurus83 said:

 

Edited July 9, 2019 by bottletopburly
Mods delete

[bottletopburly]

On 07/07/2019 at 14:07, david_taurus83 said:

I would love to have a mini PC on the mount that could be controlled wirelessly but the above is just gobbeldegook to me!

Me too , but I’ve got the pi4 , copied  indigosky img to a SD card using Etcher , so far so good though having issues with latest version of APT which I need but that will get ironed out and dslr support upcoming hopefully very soon ,  can connect using laptop and iPhone so I’m nearly there though awaiting a pu4 case .

[stash_old]

14 hours ago, sloz1664 said:

Seems to be a charging issue with the Pi 4.

https://liliputing.com/2019/07/lilbits-372-raspberry-pi-4-charging-issues-and-usb-c-confusion.html

Steve

No there are problems with some Phone/Laptop "Chargers" providing RPI4 with power using the Type-C power connector - If you use the correct RPI4 power supply unit it works fine (no RPI4 power problems yet disclosed by users on this forum) as should using a ,and I quote, "  A-C cables or micro B to C adaptors  will also work  " (which RPI Org sell) subject to enough current and the correct voltage.

There is no battery on a RPI (except for RTC) 🙂

But at least we are all better informed - thanks for the pointer 🙂

[david_taurus83]

I got myself a Pi3 B+ and a case off Amazon and last night I installed Stellarmate OS. I tried with the mobile app first. Pants. Could move the mount but cameras wouldnt work.

 

Installed Kstars on my Windows laptop and had some better luck. Connects to mount, cameras and filterwheel no probs. Hit a brick wall with the Deep Sky Dad focuser and couldn't get platesolving to work. Trying in Remote mode which I assume is off the Pi  itself?

[StarDodger]

3 hours ago, david_taurus83 said:

I got myself a Pi3 B+ and a case off Amazon and last night I installed Stellarmate OS. I tried with the mobile app first. Pants. Could move the mount but cameras wouldnt work.

 

Installed Kstars on my Windows laptop and had some better luck. Connects to mount, cameras and filterwheel no probs. Hit a brick wall with the Deep Sky Dad focuser and couldn't get platesolving to work. Trying in Remote mode which I assume is off the Pi  itself?

When using the windows version, you still Jane to connect to the rpi for the drivers, so that is called remote mode, as you can’t run it all on windows...INdI does not work...

As for platesolving, have you installed the index files you need, as SM only had a few installed with it, you can install them from within Ekos.

You can try and run the whole lot from the rpi, but it will be sluggish, as it’s not got the power for that really, the client and server approach is the best...

[bottletopburly]

On 07/07/2019 at 16:14, david_taurus83 said:

Just looked on Play store and there is indeed an app. I think I'll just order a RPi3 and make it work. Otherwise I'll just hum and haw.

If you use indigosky  yes you can use tablet phone , if you want to use APT ,you need a  laptop/pc ,indosky haven’t released the dslr drivers yet though  , have a look on Apt forum for more info .indigosky is all you need David, flash indigo img file to SD card using Etcher and that’s it ,takes 2minutes .