Pier and Pier Base Construction

[Alan White]

Do you have access to a fabricator at mates rates or is this a get quotes job?

Asking as I have a desire for a pier as well, so interested in your plan.

[souls33k3r]

 

Just now, Alan White said:

Do you have access to a fabricator at mates rates or is this a get quotes job?

Asking as I have a desire for a pier as well, so interested in your plan.

Ah ok. Well @angryowl is an absolute legend and too kind on offering me the help with the fabricating part of the pier job. 

[Jkulin]

Ahmed you need some fins on the base to make that tube rock solid, they can be ordered precut from https://www.lasermaster.co.uk/

They aren't expensive, but you really do need them

[souls33k3r]

5 minutes ago, Jkulin said:

Ahmed you need some fins on the base to make that tube rock solid, they can be ordered precut from https://www.lasermaster.co.uk/

They aren't expensive, but you really do need them

John, I have thought about it but i'm not sure i would be adding them for now but saying that this might change very quickly

[Jkulin]

6 minutes ago, souls33k3r said:

John, I have thought about it but i'm not sure i would be adding them for now but saying that this might change very quickly

Ahmed, I can't stress the importance of them, seriously I wouldn't use it without them as there will be too much flex. You need to stock any movement, otherwise it will be like a toilet roll in the wind!

[souls33k3r]

31 minutes ago, Jkulin said:

Ahmed, I can't stress the importance of them, seriously I wouldn't use it without them as there will be too much flex. You need to stock any movement, otherwise it will be like a toilet roll in the wind!

I agree mate. Let me see if i can find some way to deal with this.

 

[Xplode]

19 minutes ago, souls33k3r said:

John, I have thought about it but i'm not sure i would be adding them for now but saying that this might change very quickly

As long as you have a thick baseplate there is really no need for fins.
I made a 165cm pier pretty much the same as yours for a friend and he didn't want fins....we found we're not able to even budge it a little.

Baseplate 10 or 12mm, collumn is 6 or 8mm. In total the collumn weigh a little over 90kg
 

[souls33k3r]

1 minute ago, Xplode said:

As long as you have a thick baseplate there is really no need for fins.
I made a 165cm pier pretty much the same as yours for a friend and he didn't want fins....we found we're not able to even budge it a little.

Baseplate 10 or 12mm, collumn is 6 or 8mm. In total the collumn weigh a little over 90kg
 

That's such a relief to hear.

Yeah the base plate is 12mm thick and the tube is around 6mm as well.

I was alternatively thinking of filling it with sand.

[Jkulin]

2 minutes ago, Xplode said:

As long as you have a thick baseplate there is really no need for fins.
I made a 165cm pier pretty much the same as yours for a friend and he didn't want fins....we found we're not able to even budge it a little.

Baseplate 10 or 12mm, collumn is 6 or 8mm. In total the collumn weigh a little over 90kg
 

I doubt you would feel the movement but it would definitely be measurable and when you have 15kgs slewing and guiding without fins it will move absolutely no doubt about it, why does everyone with a commercial mount recommend this if it wasn't necessary.

To my mind it is as bad as bodging a job for just a few quid of metal, might as well bolt the pier to sand!

[Xplode]

Just now, souls33k3r said:

That's such a relief to hear.

Yeah the base plate is 12mm thick and the tube is around 6mm as well.

I was alternatively thinking of filling it with sand.

We filled his pier with sand to stop the ringing when hitting it.
The pier has been in use for 2 seasons with a 10 Micron GM2000 doing unguided imaging.

[Davey-T]

Just now, Xplode said:

We filled his pier with sand to stop the ringing when hitting it.

Why were you hitting it ? must play hell with the guiding 😂

Dave

[Xplode]

2 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

Why were you hitting it ? must play hell with the guiding 😂

Dave

To test the resonnance. The sand was added more as a peace of mind thing, i don't  think it actually does anything helpfull other than to change the frequency of the resonnance.

3 minutes ago, Jkulin said:

I doubt you would feel the movement but it would definitely be measurable and when you have 15kgs slewing and guiding without fins it will move absolutely no doubt about it, why does everyone with a commercial mount recommend this if it wasn't necessary.

To my mind it is as bad as bodging a job for just a few quid of metal, might as well bolt the pier to sand!

Most piers are way overengineered.

Think about the crappy tripods people put their gear on that still works perfectly....

[Jkulin]

Just now, Xplode said:

To test the resonnance. The sand was added more as a peace of mind thing, i don't  think it actually does anything helpfull other than to change the frequency of the resonnance.

Most piers are way overengineered.

Think about the crappy tripods people put their gear on that still works perfectly....

A crappy tripod is OK for a DSLR but not for a 550mm OTA

[Xplode]

3 minutes ago, Jkulin said:

A crappy tripod is OK for a DSLR but not for a 550mm OTA

How come people make greats images at 1000mm on tripods?
I've imaged lots on tripods myself with a 8" newtonian.

Usually the problem when it comes to wind is the mount itself, it will go back and forth on backlash.

[Jkulin]

Just now, Xplode said:

How come people make greats images at 1000mm on tripods?
I've imaged lots on tripods myself with a 8" newtonian.

Usually the problem when it comes to wind is the mount itself, it will go back and forth on backlash.

For the very fact that a good tripod spreads the load across a wider base than just a 6" tube welded to a plate, if you have the legs of a tripod spread 0.5m then it is goes to be more sturdy that a thin tube welded to a plate as long as no one goes near the setup.

[Jkulin]

4 minutes ago, Xplode said:

Usually the problem when it comes to wind is the mount itself, it will go back and forth on backlash. 

Assuming that you have backlash, the iOptrons have virtually zero.

[souls33k3r]

A little bit of advice needed. What bolt size and length do i need for the base plate? 

[Xplode]

6 minutes ago, souls33k3r said:

A little bit of advice needed. What bolt size and length do i need for the base plate? 

M12 or larger would be fine, 15-20cm is more than enough and will be totally overengineered

[souls33k3r]

9 minutes ago, Xplode said:

M12 or larger would be fine, 15-20cm is more than enough and will be totally overengineered

Cheers Ole. I can not remember for love or for money where i read that M14 or M16's were recommended or maybe i just had a dream about it (wouldn't be the first time.)

[Bukko]

1 hour ago, souls33k3r said:

A little bit of advice needed. What bolt size and length do i need for the base plate? 

I used M16's...

You are already so far down the rabbit hole, an extra couple of quid will make no difference...

Gordon.

[souls33k3r]

2 minutes ago, Bukko said:

I used M16's...

You are already so far down the rabbit hole, an extra couple of quid will make no difference...

Gordon.

So true about the rabbit hole. 

But would M16 be better than using M12s or 14s in any practical way? 

[Shelster1973]

Would be interested to see how much the pier fab comes in at. While I do like the Altair Astro one, £500 is a lot to ask for it.  If I can have it cheaper and doing the same thing, then am all for it

[souls33k3r]

14 minutes ago, Shelster1973 said:

Would be interested to see how much the pier fab comes in at. While I do like the Altair Astro one, £500 is a lot to ask for it.  If I can have it cheaper and doing the same thing, then am all for it

Because my mate is doing it for me so basically it'll cost me a drink, 30 minutes of thanking him and a big high five. 

I agree, I just couldn't justify the cost of the Altair pier. 

[Shelster1973]

That’s good news there souls. Always good to gave mates like that

[Davey-T]

32 minutes ago, souls33k3r said:

But would M16 be better than using M12s or 14s in any practical way? 

Need more chemical to fill the bigger hole, my three legged one has 2 M12 on each leg 6" deep, have you got a chunky SDS percussion drill for the holes ?

Dave