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Matzi

Triad Narrowbandfilters

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9 hours ago, Matzi said:

I'm starting to wonder if I use my Baader 7nm Ha, and 8.5 nm OIII, if that will yield better results, than a duo/tri filter...

Give it a go :) personally I've found better results with the triad filter :)

 

this is a work in progress, but 10x240s (40 mins) on the eagle neb. Extracted the Ha and oiii data seperately using astropixel processor. I'd say these filters work really well :)

received_677511862662409.png

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Here's another one with the AA triband filter, I took this on the 5th July. 30x240s stacked and processed in APP with final touch up in photoshop. Will be the start of a big mosaic :)

 

but yes, still massively impressed with this filter

Cygnus Wall 050719.png

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Waiting to get my hands on a triband filter but need to wait until stock arrives!  Could anyone who has a bit more knowledge on these triband filters tell me if there is much difference in the specs between these two:

https://www.altairastro.com/Altair-TriBand-OSC-CCD-Filter-2inch.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/light-pollution-reduction/idas-narrow-band-nebula-nb1-filter.html

Cheers!

D.

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44 minutes ago, Deeko said:

Waiting to get my hands on a triband filter but need to wait until stock arrives!  Could anyone who has a bit more knowledge on these triband filters tell me if there is much difference in the specs between these two:

https://www.altairastro.com/Altair-TriBand-OSC-CCD-Filter-2inch.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/light-pollution-reduction/idas-narrow-band-nebula-nb1-filter.html

Cheers!

D.

I haven't used the idas version, but I imagine they are very similar. The Altair offering is slightly cheaper at £215 for a 2 inch filter. It would have been nice for the band passes of the idas filter to be published on the product page too . 

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Yes, I am assuming they are both similar, would love to know more before I place an order. When both are back in stock that is!

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The only thing that keeps me away from buying these triband filters is the fact most of them have a very broad band of Ha and especially OIII. The OPT's Quad filter is 4nm Ha, SII and OIII, but waaaaay to expensive!

The STC Asto Duo-Narrowband is 10nm Ha and OIII, so comparing the specs and price, and of course the results, the STC just seems to be the best of the value. BUT I must admit, with these duo/tri and quad filters, you can't really control the amount of Ha/OIII coming through, some targets emit much more Ha, and some OIII, and right now I have a Baader 7nm Ha, and a 8.5nm OIII, which kinda allows me to do more data on Ha, or OIII seperately, depending on the target.

But I was really facinated about the idea about capturing both Ha/OIII at the same time, only having to stack once, and process that one. Also it comes out "color" which I think is kinda cool, but I still believe you get a lot more detail from shooting seperately.

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@Matzi a valid argument :) personally and this is my experience alone...I've had more fun and got better images since switching to the triband filter from two separate filters (a baader 7nm ha, 8.5nm oiii). It also depends on how you process the data. I've found the best results don't come from doing an integrated stack of all channels , but more like treating the data as though it is is from two narrowband filters. In astropixel this extract and extra stack doesn't take a lot of effort or time and yields great (in my opinion) results. 

But yeah it all comes down to personal preference...but the not having to switch out filters, re focus etc has got me sold. It's so easy . 

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42 minutes ago, Matzi said:

The only thing that keeps me away from buying these triband filters is the fact most of them have a very broad band of Ha and especially OIII. The OPT's Quad filter is 4nm Ha, SII and OIII, but waaaaay to expensive!

The STC Asto Duo-Narrowband is 10nm Ha and OIII, so comparing the specs and price, and of course the results, the STC just seems to be the best of the value. BUT I must admit, with these duo/tri and quad filters, you can't really control the amount of Ha/OIII coming through, some targets emit much more Ha, and some OIII, and right now I have a Baader 7nm Ha, and a 8.5nm OIII, which kinda allows me to do more data on Ha, or OIII seperately, depending on the target.

But I was really facinated about the idea about capturing both Ha/OIII at the same time, only having to stack once, and process that one. Also it comes out "color" which I think is kinda cool, but I still believe you get a lot more detail from shooting seperately.

The resolution will always be better in mono.

But I must say that I am quite impressed with the results that @StaceStar has been getting with her filter. If I hadn't already gone down the mono route,  I think I might have gone down this particular rabbit hole too.

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3 hours ago, jjosefsen said:

The resolution will always be better in mono.

But I must say that I am quite impressed with the results that @StaceStar has been getting with her filter. If I hadn't already gone down the mono route,  I think I might have gone down this particular rabbit hole too.

Sure a mono is better, but when talking about OSC I was still wondering that in theory shooting with seperate filters should yield better results, and as you could control which bandpass you would need more data on, compared to the other. Also the fact in this case, the Baader 7nm Ha and 8.5nm OIII is way more narrow compared to AA's new tri/quad filters. I'm not sure about the IDAS NB1 filter, but AA's filter is the most broad filter out there, (35nm OIII) compared to others. So I'm kinda surprised Stacey gets better results with this one filter.

Now I don't wanna sound arrogant or as if I'm not listening, but the results done by the STC Duo-narrowband or the Optolong L-eNhance (Optolong L-eNhance which cost about the same as the AA's filters) just seems superior. But maybe it's still to soon to say.

 

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I have an STC duo, which has produced some promising results ... although I would not claim they can match individual filters & a mono camera. My main concern about these so-called tri-band filters is that it is not possible to separate the wavelengths. With the duo, the red channel is basically the Ha and the blue & green channels are the OIII (a bit simplistic, but you get my gist). Add SII, and that just mixes with the Ha on the red channel. Trying to separate them is like trying to turn green paint into blue paint and yellow paint ... AFAIK it cain't be done ... but I would love to be proved wrong!

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On 03/07/2019 at 22:11, Matzi said:

I'm starting to wonder if I use my Baader 7nm Ha, and 8.5 nm OIII, if that will yield better results, than a duo/tri filter...

Yes and no. You can't really do oiii in moon or light pollution so it's good to be able to use a narrow filter for just oiii on moonless nights. That still applies to duel band filters. So if you image over a lunar cycle most of your ha will be good but a big chunk of the oiii will not be usable. However you are always collect information both channels all the time as opposed to one after the other so on good night's it's more efficient than desperate filters. Usually you will fine the separate filters to be better quality though. My thinking is that I always want oiii to be as narrow as possible. 

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4 minutes ago, Adam J said:

Yes and no. You can't really do oiii in moon or light pollution so it's good to be able to use a narrow filter for just oiii on moonless nights. That still applies to duel band filters. So if you image over a lunar cycle most of your ha will be good but a big chunk of the oiii will not be usable. However you are always collect information both channels all the time as opposed to one after the other so on good night's it's more efficient than desperate filters. Usually you will fine the separate filters to be better quality though. My thinking is that I always want oiii to be as narrow as possible. 

But wouldn't the dual band filters have trouble with the OIII during full moon as well? The Optolong L-eNhance, Idas NB1 and AA's filters are all above 20nm OIII?

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On 07/07/2019 at 13:59, StaceStar said:

Here's another one with the AA triband filter, I took this on the 5th July. 30x240s stacked and processed in APP with final touch up in photoshop. Will be the start of a big mosaic :)

 

but yes, still massively impressed with this filter

Cygnus Wall 050719.png

But don't get me wrong Stace, it's still stunning images, and definately the best images I've seen with the AA triband filter! But spending money on a filter, you really want to find the one that matches what one is looking for

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42 minutes ago, Matzi said:

But wouldn't the dual band filters have trouble with the OIII during full moon as well? The Optolong L-eNhance, Idas NB1 and AA's filters are all above 20nm OIII?

As I said "that still applies to duel band filters". Third line of my post. What I am trying to say is that although you can always image two channels it's not that simple as sometimes the oiii will not be usable and often you will be better off with a narrow single line filter in sub optimal conditions for this reason. But in good conditions duel band filters are a good way of increasing efficiency. 

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1 hour ago, Matzi said:

But don't get me wrong Stace, it's still stunning images, and definately the best images I've seen with the AA triband filter! But spending money on a filter, you really want to find the one that matches what one is looking for

Of course, you have to make sure you get it right first time. No point in spending money twice. 

All I can say is I've imaged in a 53% moon and severe light pollution, I'm in bortle 6-8 depending on what direction I'm imaging. The AA triband (and I assume other triband filters would too) handled it very well. There was minimal moon glow/light pollution in my stack. In fact it was some of the easiest data I have ever processed. Coupled with the increase in productivity and efficiency , well with my osc I won't go back to seperate filters now. 

 

 

Screenshot_20190709_185358_eu.distinct_solutions.aptcalc.jpg

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2 hours ago, StaceStar said:

Of course, you have to make sure you get it right first time. No point in spending money twice. 

All I can say is I've imaged in a 53% moon and severe light pollution, I'm in bortle 6-8 depending on what direction I'm imaging. The AA triband (and I assume other triband filters would too) handled it very well. There was minimal moon glow/light pollution in my stack. In fact it was some of the easiest data I have ever processed. Coupled with the increase in productivity and efficiency , well with my osc I won't go back to seperate filters now. 

 

 

 

Exactly!

And I'm glad you really love yours, I'm in no hurry getting one of these just yet, I just wanted to explore the options there were with these filters.

I've just seen a ton of nice images done with the Optolong L-eNhance (Same price as the AA's triband), and with the STC Duo-narrowband, which is a bit more pricey, but also at 10nm Ha/OIII to compare.

And to be honest, so far only your images has impressed me, compared to the other ones I've seen on the AA FB page, so not a lot to go on from there.

I'd just wish they'd make a 6nm Ha/OIII or something like that, that wouldn't be too expensive! lol

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Finally had a chance to give a proper go with my idas NB1 filter. Don't like how the stars came out with red halos, otherwise happy and will keep the filter. Someone might be able to fix the stars who is more knowledgeable in processing. Used a modified Canon 6D with equinox 80ED (no flattener), F6, about 2.5 hours of exposures in Bortle 5 skies with LED lights just outside my backyard. 

 

view01c.jpg

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On 27/08/2019 at 12:01, thomasv said:

Finally had a chance to give a proper go with my idas NB1 filter. Don't like how the stars came out with red halos, otherwise happy and will keep the filter. Someone might be able to fix the stars who is more knowledgeable in processing. Used a modified Canon 6D with equinox 80ED (no flattener), F6, about 2.5 hours of exposures in Bortle 5 skies with LED lights just outside my backyard. 

 

view01c.jpg

Did you manage to fix the stars? Any more images to share with the NB1?  Currently using the IDAS D2 filter and still not made up my mind to go for the AA Tri or IDAS NB1....

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The idea of a dual/tri band filter is really appealing. Narrowband imaging on a dslr/osc should be more efficient as you're shooting both Ha and Oiii at the same time. I would separate the channels as @AdamJ suggested and process them individually to get a custom bi colour palette (I don't think an SHO palette is achievable here). Is it possible that the focus may be slightly off between the channels especially since you're using a doublet. @thomasv could this be the issue you're seeing in your image? 

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I had placed a wanted ad for an Ha filter but now I am seriously thinking of getting an optolong L-enhance filter for my dslr. Getting Ha and OIII at the same time seems intriguing. But how do you process the data to produce an HOO image? How do you split channels, process and reassign them on PS? I can't find any tutorial on this, using PS, only APP.

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the band pass of the altair triad filter is the same as the baader uhc-s/+L filter and i used the 2 inch version of the baader when we had sodium street lights and it worked great on an unmodded canon eos 1100d but the main difference is the baader is over £100 cheaper

 

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On 27/09/2019 at 20:34, R26 oldtimer said:

I had placed a wanted ad for an Ha filter but now I am seriously thinking of getting an optolong L-enhance filter for my dslr. Getting Ha and OIII at the same time seems intriguing. But how do you process the data to produce an HOO image? How do you split channels, process and reassign them on PS? I can't find any tutorial on this, using PS, only APP.

All things considered and after looking at the results of the altair tri and IDAS NB1, I have decided to instead go for  the Optolong L-enhance, should have it tomorrow :)

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Here my result from OPTOLONG L-Enhance filter, processed in APP "in a very quick manner :(  without much tweaking" 

I must say the Filter is performing very good, my location is very light polluted,  and the below " quick and dirty outcome"  is the result of 10x 60 seconds subs  ( no DARKS and NO FLATS ) and also no GUIDING..

Taken with QHY183C + ASA 8N F2.8 Newton.

I am sure, the potential is available here to get better processed pictures., the DATA is available in each SUB..  

Cheers

Martin  

 

48774091576_6833b4ff47_b.jpg

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The L-enhance looks very interesting filter comparing the price with the others on the market , maybe i would like to see a comparison along the Altair's Tri-band filter , because my main concern is that with the L-enhance i see the photos come out very reddish......or is it just a matter of processing ???

If these filters can capture Ha and Oiii what about bicolor coloration ? is it possible to do HOO ???

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On 10/10/2019 at 08:17, Nikolas74 said:

The L-enhance looks very interesting filter comparing the price with the others on the market , maybe i would like to see a comparison along the Altair's Tri-band filter , because my main concern is that with the L-enhance i see the photos come out very reddish......or is it just a matter of processing ???

If these filters can capture Ha and Oiii what about bicolor coloration ? is it possible to do HOO ???

Yes, a large part is due to processing.

The latest iteration of Startools has ways of addressing this.

Also, not all emission nebula targets exhibit prominent Oiii lines.

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