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Starlight Xpress SXV-H9C


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Just bought a second hand SXV-H9C as I've been looking to upgrade my Canon 1100D to a OSC CCD camera and this came up the other day, it was at a price that I was happy with spending at this stage so I decided to go for it. I am intending to use it with my 130PDS and at a later stage a skywatcher ED80 when I have some more funds. I haven't used it yet but having bought it I'm starting to wonder if it was the right choice. I can't find any reviews on this camera so was wondering what others thought about it? The reason for doubting my decision is firstly I'm a bit concerned that the resolution is going to be a bit low at 1392 x 1040 pixels. Secondly I'm unsure about whether the regulated cooling is a good option or whether I should have gone with one that has set-point. I don't know much about these two types of cooling so a bit in the dark here. Hope some people can help. Cheers.

Edited by bendiddley
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7 hours ago, bendiddley said:

Just bought a second hand SXV-H9C as I've been looking to upgrade my Canon 1100D to a OSC CCD camera and this came up the other day, it was at a price that I was happy with spending at this stage so I decided to go for it. I am intending to use it with my 130PDS and at a later stage a skywatcher ED80 when I have some more funds. I haven't used it yet but having bought it I'm starting to wonder if it was the right choice. I can't find any reviews on this camera so was wondering what others thought about it? The reason for doubting my decision is firstly I'm a bit concerned that the resolution is going to be a bit low at 1392 x 1040 pixels. Secondly I'm unsure about whether the regulated cooling is a good option or whether I should have gone with one that has set-point. I don't know much about these two types of cooling so a bit in the dark here. Hope some people can help. Cheers.

With a 130PDS it will have a much smaller field of view in comparison to a DSLR and so you are going to have to accept that and get used to it. You could pair it with a shorter focal length scope but that would likely leave you under sampled in terms of Arc seconds per pixel, it will still work ok with the ED 80 but I would caution against going much shorter than a 500mm focal length as you would start to notice a loss of resolved retail and possibly slightly blocky stars. Most of the good images I see taken with this camera are of smaller objects at longer focal lengths suited to the large (by modern standards) pixels. 

I am not so sure about regulated vs set point cooling....they may be the same thing. In the drivers can you chose the temperature to cool down to? 

If you cant then you will have to take dark frames at the same time as light frames to match temperature as much as possible. However, that sensor is quite clean with no amp glow so a small scale dither may be just as effective in removing hot pixels.

Adam 

 

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14 minutes ago, Adam J said:

With a 130PDS it will have a much smaller field of view in comparison to a DSLR and so you are going to have to accept that and get used to it. You could pair it with a shorter focal length scope but that would likely leave you under sampled in terms of Arc seconds per pixel, it will still work ok with the ED 80 but I would caution against going much shorter than a 500mm focal length as you would start to notice a loss of resolved retail and possibly slightly blocky stars. Most of the good images I see taken with this camera are of smaller objects at longer focal lengths suited to the large (by modern standards) pixels.

I am not so sure about regulated vs set point cooling....they may be the same thing. In the drivers can you chose the temperature to cool down to?

If you cant then you will have to take dark frames at the same time as light frames to match temperature as much as possible. However, that sensor is quite clean with no amp glow so a small scale dither may be just as effective in removing hot pixels.

Adam

 

Thanks for that adam. When you say smaller field of view, do you mean I won't be able to fit as much in the frame, ie. an object taken with my dslr will show more of the object than with the CCD if that makes sense? If this is the case, are there any CCD's that would be more suitable, I have seen an SXVF-MC25 for sale, would that be better suited?

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5 minutes ago, bendiddley said:

Thanks for that adam. When you say smaller field of view, do you mean I won't be able to fit as much in the frame, ie. an object taken with my dslr will show more of the object than with the CCD if that makes sense? If this is the case, are there any CCD's that would be more suitable, I have seen an SXVF-MC25 for sale, would that be better suited?

Yes, at the same focal length you will get more of an object into a frame with a larger sensor than with a smaller sensor. 

This is a good utility to help you get a feel for the field of view of your camera. 

http://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/astronomy-field-view-calculator

just set the focal length to 650mm for the 130PDS and the camera is in the list. 

If you have already purchased the SXV-H9C then why not give it a go before looking at different cameras, despite being smaller it will still be much more sensitive than a DSLR due to the cooling. 

If you really don't like the FOV that you get having had a play with the tool I linked then there are many cameras with larger sensors, it would mostly depend on your budget and your other equipment as to what I might suggest. 

Adam

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45 minutes ago, Adam J said:

Yes, at the same focal length you will get more of an object into a frame with a larger sensor than with a smaller sensor.

This is a good utility to help you get a feel for the field of view of your camera.

http://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/astronomy-field-view-calculator

just set the focal length to 650mm for the 130PDS and the camera is in the list.

If you have already purchased the SXV-H9C then why not give it a go before looking at different cameras, despite being smaller it will still be much more sensitive than a DSLR due to the cooling.

If you really don't like the FOV that you get having had a play with the tool I linked then there are many cameras with larger sensors, it would mostly depend on your budget and your other equipment as to what I might suggest.

Adam

Great tool, although I think I've just crashed the website. Not sure I'm keen on having such a small field of view, even if it is more sensitive than my dslr. bummer.

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6 hours ago, bendiddley said:

Great tool, although I think I've just crashed the website. Not sure I'm keen on having such a small field of view, even if it is more sensitive than my dslr. bummer.

Well most astro cameras within easy reach in terms of cost are smaller than an APS-C DSLR sensor so unless you have the money they you will sacrifice field of view to some extent.

Like I say to make a suggestion I would need to know your budget.

Also why OSC?

Adam

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9 hours ago, Adam J said:

Well most astro cameras within easy reach in terms of cost are smaller than an APS-C DSLR sensor so unless you have the money they you will sacrifice field of view to some extent.

Like I say to make a suggestion I would need to know your budget.

Also why OSC?

Adam

I was thinking OSC because seeing conditions where I live are fairly average which will mean I won't get the most out of a mono (at least that's what I've picked up from somewhere), I thought you needed dark skies to benefit from the extra sensitivity of a mono?? I might be wrong. In terms of budget, I've got about £550 to spend. As it happens I've seen an SXVF-M25C for sale for £550 which I'm wondering about, was thinking this might be another option, it has a much larger sensor. Do you think I'd be better with a mono? Think I'd need to get a CMOS if that's the case, as I've heard you don't need as long on exposures which would cut down the time needed each session and make taking RGB's more doable. But a good CMOS is over my budget which is why I've been looking at 2nd hand CCD.

Edited by bendiddley
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On 15/05/2019 at 09:57, bendiddley said:

I was thinking OSC because seeing conditions where I live are fairly average which will mean I won't get the most out of a mono (at least that's what I've picked up from somewhere), I thought you needed dark skies to benefit from the extra sensitivity of a mono?? I might be wrong. In terms of budget, I've got about £550 to spend. As it happens I've seen an SXVF-M25C for sale for £550 which I'm wondering about, was thinking this might be another option, it has a much larger sensor. Do you think I'd be better with a mono? Think I'd need to get a CMOS if that's the case, as I've heard you don't need as long on exposures which would cut down the time needed each session and make taking RGB's more doable. But a good CMOS is over my budget which is why I've been looking at 2nd hand CCD.

Actually its the opposite, the more light pollution you have the more you will benefit from a mono camera. This is for two reasons, mono performs much better than OSC with narrow band filters, also you can use a LP filter in place of a UVIR filter for luminescence in LRGB imaging reducing light pollution without impacting RGB colour balance. Hence I would recommend mono to you given your sky conditions. 

Second hand is the way to go as with your budget you will not get a new camera with cooling for that price. However, you can get a mono camera without cooling in the form of the Hypercam 183m  (£650) giving you a half way point between a cooled mono camera and a DSLR. I would not recommend the colour version of that camera though as your would be better off with a DSLR in my opinion. 

If OSC I would go with that SXVF-M25C as opposed to the SXV-H9C as the large pixels will still play well with the 130PDS and you will at least get a decent field of view. As its an older camera just make sure its still supported etc. 

I guess it all depends on what you want to image and how you want to image. The SXV-M25C will benefit from relatively long exposures for an OSC due to large read noise / good well depth and so you will need to be able to guide. 

In my opinion a uncooled mono chip like the IMX183mono with its low dark current is still still a favourable option in comparison to a cooled OSC especially for narrow band in poor sky conditions or imaging small galaxies due to the smaller pixels. On the other hand its a smaller sensor....but still of a useful size. 

Check out this thread. Only 30min images with that camera and a similar scope. Showing potential. 

 

Sometimes the smaller chip mono cooled cameras do come up second hand in your price range, but that is pot luck and you still need to pay for filters. 

To get a new APS-C OCS camera that significantly outperforms the SXV-M25C you are looking at £1300 for a QHY168c or more for the ASI071mc pro equiverlent. 

My personal opinion is that if your light pollution is really bad then save for a Cooled Mono and narrow band filters, if you cant afford that then the Hypercam 183m would be a compromise accepting the smaller sensor. In very band Light pollution I feel that modern uncooled mono edges a older cooled OSC sensor. 500-600 pounds is a odd price bracket as any less and your in DSLR territory but at the same time a cooled OSC or mono is not that much more at £900 or so new. 

All this being said the SXV-M25C will outperform your DSLR. 

Hope that helps,

Adam 

 

 

Edited by Adam J
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23 hours ago, Adam J said:

Actually its the opposite, the more light pollution you have the more you will benefit from a mono camera. This is for two reasons, mono performs much better than OSC with narrow band filters, also you can use a LP filter in place of a UVIR filter for luminescence in LRGB imaging reducing light pollution without impacting RGB colour balance. Hence I would recommend mono to you given your sky conditions.

Second hand is the way to go as with your budget you will not get a new camera with cooling for that price. However, you can get a mono camera without cooling in the form of the Hypercam 183m (£650) giving you a half way point between a cooled mono camera and a DSLR. I would not recommend the colour version of that camera though as your would be better off with a DSLR in my opinion.

If OSC I would go with that SXVF-M25C as opposed to the SXV-H9C as the large pixels will still play well with the 130PDS and you will at least get a decent field of view. As its an older camera just make sure its still supported etc.

I guess it all depends on what you want to image and how you want to image. The SXV-M25C will benefit from relatively long exposures for an OSC due to large read noise / good well depth and so you will need to be able to guide.

In my opinion a uncooled mono chip like the IMX183mono with its low dark current is still still a favourable option in comparison to a cooled OSC especially for narrow band in poor sky conditions or imaging small galaxies due to the smaller pixels. On the other hand its a smaller sensor....but still of a useful size.

Check out this thread. Only 30min images with that camera and a similar scope. Showing potential.

 

Sometimes the smaller chip mono cooled cameras do come up second hand in your price range, but that is pot luck and you still need to pay for filters.

To get a new APS-C OCS camera that significantly outperforms the SXV-M25C you are looking at £1300 for a QHY168c or more for the ASI071mc pro equiverlent.

My personal opinion is that if your light pollution is really bad then save for a Cooled Mono and narrow band filters, if you cant afford that then the Hypercam 183m would be a compromise accepting the smaller sensor. In very band Light pollution I feel that modern uncooled mono edges a older cooled OSC sensor. 500-600 pounds is a odd price bracket as any less and your in DSLR territory but at the same time a cooled OSC or mono is not that much more at £900 or so new.

All this being said the SXV-M25C will outperform your DSLR.

Hope that helps,

Adam

 

 

Thankyou Adam for all that info, very useful. I decided in the end to go for the SXVF-M25C. After weighing up all the pros and cons this is what I felt most comfortable with and I think I will get a lot of enjoyment out of it. I expect at some point in the future I'll give mono a try. Maybe some of the current higher end monos will have come down in price by then and make it a bit more affordable for me too. Thanks again.

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3 minutes ago, bendiddley said:

Thankyou Adam for all that info, very useful. I decided in the end to go for the SXVF-M25C. After weighing up all the pros and cons this is what I felt most comfortable with and I think I will get a lot of enjoyment out of it. I expect at some point in the future I'll give mono a try. Maybe some of the current higher end monos will have come down in price by then and make it a bit more affordable for me too. Thanks again.

no problem, for 550 pounds its difficult to go wrong really. 

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