1100d to a ASI294MC Pro advice please

[Danjc]

I am currently considering moving on from my trusty 1100d and the ASI 294MC Pro seems to fit my needs. 

It would be paired to my SW ED80 wth FF/FR and would give me a slightly smaller FOV than the 1100d but seems fine.

I know there’s the whole mono & colour thing but I’m pushing my limits with the 294 so mono and the additional cost of the filters & wheel take it out of reach. 

Apart from a LP filter I could be up and running to an extent so has anyone any advice they could offer me or alternatives as I want to get the purchase right first time. 

I know this question pops up regularly but this would be a major purchase for me so any advice is welcome. 

Please don’t baffle me with to much technical info ?

cheers, Dan. 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Danjc

[Adam J]

I

9 minutes ago, Danjc said:

I am currently considering moving on from my trusty 1100d and the ASI 294MC Pro seems to fit my needs. 

It would be paired to my SW ED80 wth FF/FR and would give me a slightly smaller FOV than the 1100d but seems fine.

I know there’s the whole mono & colour thing but I’m pushing my limits with the 294 so mono and the additional cost of the filters & wheel take it out of reach. 

Apart from a LP filter I could be up and running to an extent so has anyone any advice they could offer me or alternatives as I want to get the purchase right first time. 

I know this question pops up regularly but this would be a major purchase for me so any advice is welcome. 

Please don’t baffle me with to much technical info ?

cheers, Dan. 

Is a asi183mm pro and manual filter wheel / lrgb really that much more than a asi294mc pro and a lp filter? 

Also you may want to consider the why version of the camera. Look up calibration issues with the 294 on cloudy nights. 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Adam J

[Danjc]

Forgive me if I’m wrong or I’m looking at the wrong model but the asi183 pro mono is literally a couple of pounds less than the 294 ?

cheers for the advice I will pop over to cloudy nights and have a look. 

1 hour ago, Adam J said:

I

Is a asi183mm pro and manual filter wheel / lrgb really that much more than a asi294mc pro and a lp filter? 

Also you may want to consider the why version of the camera. Look up calibration issues with the 294 on cloudy nights. 

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Danjc

[Hughsie]

I went through the same dilemma a few months back and plumped for the ASI294MC pro cooled.

So questions for me were the concerns over calibration. Sure there is amp glow but then you need to take calibration frames to overcome that and remember this is a one shot colour camera, no need to take separate luminance, red, green, blue subframes and no need to take calibration frames for each LRGB filter.

Question for me was this - do I have the time to sit there and run individual image plans and calibration frames in one night or over a course of nights (weather permitting) to capture a dso AND do I then have the time to process and combine each LRGB set of frames?

If your answer is yes, then go for the mono camera, filter wheel and filter option. You will capture more detail.

If you answer is no, then a colour camera will allow you to capture an RGB image in one session (clouds permitting) and will be quicker to process.

[Danjc]

34 minutes ago, Hughsie said:

I went through the same dilemma a few months back and plumped for the ASI294MC pro cooled.

So questions for me were the concerns over calibration. Sure there is amp glow but then you need to take calibration frames to overcome that and remember this is a one shot colour camera, no need to take separate luminance, red, green, blue subframes and no need to take calibration frames for each LRGB filter.

Question for me was this - do I have the time to sit there and run individual image plans and calibration frames in one night or over a course of nights (weather permitting) to capture a dso AND do I then have the time to process and combine each LRGB set of frames?

If your answer is yes, then go for the mono camera, filter wheel and filter option. You will capture more detail.

If you answer is no, then a colour camera will allow you to capture an RGB image in one session (clouds permitting) and will be quicker to process.

Can I ask if you feel you made the right choice and happy with the camera. 

 

[Hughsie]

I am happy with the camera and the photos I have captured so far. It is a learning curve but one worth climbing.

The proof is in the pictures and a search on Astrobin using asi294mc as a search filter will reveal a lot of photos which you can check for yourself.

[Hughsie]

Here is my first image taken with a William Optic Z61

 

[Knight of Clear Skies]

It's a tricky one, while the ASI 294MC Pro is certainly good ~£1,000 is a lot to pay for a colour camera, where only 1/4 of the pixels are sensitive to Ha.

Just a thought but would getting the 1100D modded and investing in a clip-in Ha filter be more cost effective? I've been getting good results with mine, even when shooting from a very dark site it allows much fainter nebulosity to be isolated from the background. Blending Ha into the red channel of an RGB image is easy if you can get the images aligned. Below I've shown the difference that blending 46m of Ha data into a 2h20m RGB image makes.

But please bear in mind I'm shooting at f2.

[Danjc]

20 minutes ago, Knight of Clear Skies said:

It's a tricky one, while the ASI 294MC Pro is certainly good ~£1,000 is a lot to pay for a colour camera, where only 1/4 of the pixels are sensitive to Ha.

Just a thought but would getting the 1100D modded and investing in a clip-in Ha filter be more cost effective? I've been getting good results with mine, even when shooting from a very dark site it allows much fainter nebulosity to be isolated from the background. Blending Ha into the red channel of an RGB image is easy if you can get the images aligned. Below I've shown the difference that blending 46m of Ha data into a 2h20m RGB image makes.

But please bear in mind I'm shooting at f2.

The Ha filter certainly makes a difference and getting the 1100d modified has been on my radar for a while but I have held back thinking should I just put the cash towards a dedicated Astro cam !

yes you are absolutely right regarding price and make some valid points, the more I research and read the more my mind wonders from this to that ?

[Adam J]

3 hours ago, Hughsie said:

I went through the same dilemma a few months back and plumped for the ASI294MC pro cooled.

So questions for me were the concerns over calibration. Sure there is amp glow but then you need to take calibration frames to overcome that and remember this is a one shot colour camera, no need to take separate luminance, red, green, blue subframes and no need to take calibration frames for each LRGB filter.

Question for me was this - do I have the time to sit there and run individual image plans and calibration frames in one night or over a course of nights (weather permitting) to capture a dso AND do I then have the time to process and combine each LRGB set of frames?

If your answer is yes, then go for the mono camera, filter wheel and filter option. You will capture more detail.

If you answer is no, then a colour camera will allow you to capture an RGB image in one session (clouds permitting) and will be quicker to process.

Its not a problem with amp glow, its a problem with uneven cooling of the chip which has an interaction with ambient temperature meaning that you cant re-use a master dark. Its only something that you will see when trying to go really deep. At which point you will notice odd colour gradients in the background. 

Most people will just take luminance flats with mono. Just keep your filters clean. 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Adam J

[feilimb]

Hi Danjc,

I also invested in an ASI294MC Pro Cooled a few months ago, and I have the same setup as yourself: Skywatcher ED80 DS Pro, with 0.85x FR/FF.  Thus far I have been happy with the camera (it was also my first 'dedicated' astro camera after moving from a Canon 450D), but I feel like I've only scratched the tip of the iceberg in terms of trying it out and getting used to it.  I went for some of the big bright targets first, M31 and have since tried targets like the Soul nebula with a LP filter and very briefly the Horsehead Nebula with a HA filter.

I feel like I am still beginner level, so I still struggle a bit with processing (and in particular integrating flats) so the main issues I've had with my images are a result of my processing skills and capturing of flats etc. I think I am happy with the camera itself, and as noted above due to my limited imaging time, I feel it is a good fit for me in terms of less complexity than LRGB / time spent.

If you look back through my profile posts you might find a few posts where I published some early results with the camera and setup.

Note: for the use of filters - I have been using 1.25" filters (I own an IDAS LP P2 and a slightly dodgy H-Alpha filter in this size) screwed immediately in front of the sensor window (with an adapter that comes with the camera). It does introduce some vignetting but is not too bad and is cheaper than going down a 2" filter and required adapter route.  I can post some RAW images to you with the vignetting so you can get an idea, if interested at any point.

[Adam J]

12 hours ago, Danjc said:

Forgive me if I’m wrong or I’m looking at the wrong model but the asi183 pro mono is literally a couple of pounds less than the 294 ?

cheers for the advice I will pop over to cloudy nights and have a look. 

 

Yes but a 2 inch LP filter (1.25 inch is not really great for that sensor size) for the ASI294mc pro is going to be between 130 and 200 pounds depending on which one you get. You can get a budget 1.25inch LRGB and a 1.25 inch LP filter or Ha and a manual filter wheel for the ASI183mm pro for about 260 pounds. So overall taking into account that the 183 is slightly cheaper you might only be talking about 150 pounds more for a mono sensor that will be much better for narrow band imaging in the long run. 

150 pounds might seem lots now...but its not really especially if as many do you end up going mono in the end anyway. 

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Adam J

[Danjc]

6 hours ago, feilimb said:

I can post some RAW images to you with the vignetting so you can get an idea, if interested at any point.

That would be great, thanks. 

[feilimb]

13 hours ago, Danjc said:

That would be great, thanks. 

Here you go:

https://we.tl/t-zMqhct2Ry0

Note: at the bottom right of the image is a particularly dark/nasty looking area - I think this is from a glob of dust that was there at the time, but to get an idea on the vignetting the top left, right, and bottom left areas are better to go by.

It is a terribly noisy image, with the Gain cranked up to 250 but it can give you some idea of the vignetting experienced when using a 1.25" filter placed in front of the sensor window.  I don't have a comparison image to hand of when there is no filter in front of the sensor window, but can try dig one up later for comparison if I get a chance.

[Danjc]

Thanks for all the advice I have gone with the ASI294MC-Pro. Mono was a bit to far out of my strict budget especially as I have managed to pick up a very good priced LP filter. 

Has anyone any advice re settings to get me going, I am looking but additional advice is appreciated.