Problem finding

[Anthony1979]

I spent nearly 4 hours outside last night and couldnt find anything at all... I tried the m3 but nothing then tried bode but again nothing... Just wondering what im doing wrong 

[Stu]

16 minutes ago, Anthony1979 said:

I spent nearly 4 hours outside last night and couldnt find anything at all... I tried the m3 but nothing then tried bode but again nothing... Just wondering what im doing wrong 

What scope are you using, and what are your skies like Anthony? That would help us help you a little.

Having your finderscope accurately aligned really helps too, is that sorted for you?

[Fieldsy]

19 minutes ago, Anthony1979 said:

I spent nearly 4 hours outside last night and couldnt find anything at all... I tried the m3 but nothing then tried bode but again nothing... Just wondering what im doing wrong 

I know the feeling ,so I'm focusing on small gains . I must ask did you take the end cap of ? .dont laugh I have left it on the guide scope took me about 20 mins to clock it ? can laugh now but at the time ?.

[maw lod qan]

I've found it quite surprising how quickly the finder scope will fog up during my early morning viewing sessions, leaving only the brightest of stars visible through it.

[Anthony1979]

Sorry im using 6 inch skywatcher... Ive got some light pollution but not really bad.. Yes i have took lens cap off lol... My finder is spot on aswell 

[Stu]

Ok, so how are you going about it? Are you star hopping or just placing the finderscope where you think the target should be? Also, is your finder a straight through or RACI type? Knowing this really helps know which way to move the scope. With a straight through one I find keeping both eyes open can help when you are trying to out the scope on a brighter star, as they line up in both eyes when you are in target.

There is a good star hop to M81/M82 which you might find useful, attached here. Keep at it, once you get the hang of it you will find it easy.

[Anthony1979]

I tried starhopping and i use stellerium to try finding... All i see is just stars everywhere lol.... Very frustrating when you spend that much time outside... My finder tou just look straight through 

[Saganite]

You will find it easier if you use your longest focal length eyepiece first Anthony, something around 25mm perhaps.

[Anthony1979]

I was using my 25 mm which came with the scope and my orion sirius 20 mm

[lenscap]

Although I don't have direct glare from streetlights etc I suffer from Bortle 8 city skyglow.

M3 is virtually invisible in my 9X50 Finder.

To spot it, once I am sure I am pointed at the right place & have dark adapted eyes, I have to scan the Finder FOV by averted vision.

At some point I will get the impression that there is something there.

I centre this directly-invisible "something" & a small, dim smudge, M3,  is visible in a low-power eyepiece. Increasing the magnification makes it more interesting, but not spectacular.

I have never managed to see M81/82 from my backyard in my 200p , never mind in the Finder.

Keep trying.

 

[John]

I found using a red dot or illuminated reticule finder combined with a low power eyepiece (eg: 32mm plossl) helped me a lot when I started out trying to find things using star maps and planetarium software. I've since found that also having an optical finder alongside the RDF type finder aids more detailed star hops to more challenging targets.

The other thing is that you learn slowly how things actually appear through an eyepiece and often they are much more subtle and faint that you might expect and you realise that you have been looking at them but just did not notice !. Gradual experience is the only way that you develop this.

I have shown society colleagues objects (particularly galaxies) in my eyepiece that were plain to my eye but they could just not see them so it does take time and practice.

[domstar]

I've spent a good few times giving up after not being able to find M3 and M81. I'm better now (usually) but they are not easy star hops. I recommend trying something nearer a bright star and also something not up right near the zenith. My finder is backwards and upside down and it took me a lot of practice to improve and I still double check what the telescope tube is doing to make sure.

The Great Cluster in Hercules might be good to practice on (although it's beaten me a few times). Experience will tell you how bright a bright star will look in your finder. Sometimes I mistake a dimmer star for the one I want.

Good luck.

[Anthony1979]

1 hour ago, lenscap said:

Although I don't have direct glare from streetlights etc I suffer from Bortle 8 city skyglow.

M3 is virtually invisible in my 9X50 Finder.

To spot it, once I am sure I am pointed at the right place & have dark adapted eyes, I have to scan the Finder FOV by averted vision.

At some point I will get the impression that there is something there.

I centre this directly-invisible "something" & a small, dim smudge, M3,  is visible in a low-power eyepiece. Increasing the magnification makes it more interesting, but not spectacular.

I have never managed to see M81/82 from my backyard in my 200p , never mind in the Finder.

Keep trying.

 

what have you been able to see

[Anthony1979]

so really i could have been looking at something but not realising it

[lenscap]

28 minutes ago, Anthony1979 said:

so really i could have been looking at something but not realising it

Yes, absolutely. I looked at M31 several times before I saw it because what was seeable was much smaller & dimmer than I expected.

39 minutes ago, Anthony1979 said:

what have you been able to see

Lots of open clusters , a dozen globulars, half a dozen planetary nebulae plus M42 of course.

The only galaxy I have seen from home is the central core of M31 but I'm still trying for M82.

If your skies are better than Bortle 8 you may have better luck.

[Anthony1979]

i think im in bortle 8... i live on the outskirts of manchester

[Anthony1979]

i use that site called clear outside v1.0 https://clearoutside.com/forecast/53.49/-2.10

[John]

Here is a reliable star hopping route to M81 and M82 - thanks to Stu on this forum for pointing this one out to me

[pregulla]

Bortle 8 is pretty bad. Stuff doesn't look like it's pictures. M81/82 might not be visible at all. Clusters should be an easier target. If you can catch Orion nebula it is an easy target, you can point right at it.

I use SkySafari on my phone. You need to adjust settings so the stars you see in the eyepiece roghly match what you see in the app. Calculate the TFoV of your eyepiece and zoom in in the app. Find a path to your object using recognizable patterns. Baby steps, make sure you are certain where you are after each step. You may need to try multiple times or try different "routes".

It takes practice, but it gets easier over time. Even if you can't see the target, you still gain experience.

[scarp15]

Do consider, if you haven't got a copy, 'Turn Left at Orion' - Amazon. This will inform you of feasible, achievable season by season targets from an urban back garden / yard. Combined with stellarium, you may be able to plot your way to the target, apply quite some time looking and 'acclimatising' (dark adapting a little) your eyes to grasp the star pattern, finder stars towards locating the target. As John has mentioned, a reflex / reticule finder, such as a Telrad, Rigel Quikfinder, will transform your ability to locate objects. Not achieving anything or much on the first and early period attempts is quite normal, I was just the same at the start to. When you do discover something, it should register with you, particularly when based upon referencing drawings, once again Turn Left at Orion or similar. Keep at it as you will gradually ease in and get into the flow.  

[Anthony1979]

this one https://www.amazon.co.uk/Turn-Left-Orion-Hundreds-Telescope/dp/0521153972/ref=sr_1_1?crid=8CNLV1Q5BMXR&keywords=turn+left+at+orion+book&qid=1557101624&s=gateway&sprefix=turn+left%2Caps%2C191&sr=8-1

[Sky-searcher]

20 hours ago, Anthony1979 said:

I spent nearly 4 hours outside last night and couldnt find anything at all... I tried the m3 but nothing then tried bode but again nothing... Just wondering what im doing wrong 

I think this is the question that most newcomers ask when starting out. Expectations of what we are going to see are usually high, but in reality finding a target we are looking for is really hard or impossible. There are so many variables (seeing conditions, light pollution , etc) that make it hard to find what we are looking for. Also what we expect to see when we find the object ( picture of a bright galaxy) we have seen on the internet, when in reality we will only see a grey smudge when only using averted vision. There are lots of good star hopping videos to help locate targets on YouTube that have helped me find objects in the sky & good apps like SkySafari on App Store. Well calibrated finders are a must to navigate & I find using both Red dot & finder scope helps me a lot. Being in the darkest place possible, giving your eyes time to adjust & being patience the best advice I could give. I am new to this wonderful hobby also, since the start of the year. There is enough to see in the sky to last a lifetime. There are lots of helpful & knowledgeable people here to help when you need it also. Don’t give up, Good luck & enjoy ? 

[scarp15]

8 hours ago, Anthony1979 said:

this one https://www.amazon.co.uk/Turn-Left-Orion-Hundreds-Telescope/dp/0521153972/ref=sr_1_1?crid=8CNLV1Q5BMXR&keywords=turn+left+at+orion+book&qid=1557101624&s=gateway&sprefix=turn+left%2Caps%2C191&sr=8-1

Yes.

[Mark at Beaufort]

Over the years I have seen many beginners improve their ability of finding objects by using a Red Dot Finder. In addition books like 'Turn Left at Orion' help to locate the brighter DSOs. I also believe getting to know the night sky and the constellations help to track down these objects. In this respect a pair of wide field binoculars together with this pocket star atlas really help IMHO. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sky-Telescopes-Pocket-Atlas/dp/1931559317/ref=pd_sbs_14_6/261-1572737-3554610?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1931559317&pd_rd_r=9a74e407-6fe0-11e9-8c5a-d706e463e9e0&pd_rd_w=yEpCs&pd_rd_wg=mrfkM&pf_rd_p=18edf98b-139a-41ee-bb40-d725dd59d1d3&pf_rd_r=W0WB3CJ6MVKNF2A6XP2W&psc=1&refRID=W0WB3CJ6MVKNF2A6XP2W

[Anthony1979]

What is the difference between an rdf and a normal finder dont they both do the same job