Anything fundamentally wrong with this mount/telescope?

[Gregely]

Hi there SGL

It is very long winded so sorry...

I am a complete newbie/beginner of astronomy. So you probably can all point out why I am wrong that I cannot see.

So:

Backstory:

My wife bought me a Celestron nexstar 4se for Christmas that kick stared me on my long dormant interest in astronomy and the night sky.

I like the OTA and the simplicity of use but I found that I get more enjoyment of learning about the sky rather than just looking at something in the eyepiece that the magic fairy of GOTO bring up for me.

Also I found I learned more from finding alignment stars than using the GOTO function.

I am interested in taking photos of the objects with my M4/3 DSLR through the telescope, not to take the visually most pleasing images but to utilize the sensitivity of the sensor where my eyes fail me. (Hopefully training my eye will improve on that)

So more like EAA without the live aspect. I really don't mind waiting for 30-60 seconds for a photograph to expose and then loon at the details my eyes cannot record.

So that brings me to the question:

My funds are so limited that I need to make the changes from the price my 4se mount (ideally I would like to keep using the OTA after all it is a present...)

I found on eBay (I know now I am asking for it) an 8" Newtonian f4.5 (900mm) ON a manual Bresser exos-2 mount. For under £200

My primary interest is in the mount I know I will not be able to track for photography with it until a RA motor drive been fitted but I think I could learn the ropes with a manual then Mod the mount later (when funds allow it) maybe going for a full Onstep mod in the distant future.

What I read about this mount is that payload is 13 for visual and 7 for photography that is more than an eq5 so I can future proof myself a little. Also tracking meant to be good on this. Neq5, eq6, advanced vx, atlas are all out of the question as they are too expensive.

Is this mount suitable for my needs?

Secondly:

The 8" Newtonian is a noname "Astronomical Telescope" see below.

What my detective work points to is that this scope most likely is this:

https://www.barride-optics.com/html/Astronomical-Telescope_Reflector-Telescope_1547.html

It is parabolic and I cannot see anything fundamentally wrong with it.

I am hoping that this is a pre branded OK (not great) OTA that I can sell to cover some of the subsequent costs.

So should I buy this is this a good option?

sorry for the long winded post

 

And thank you

 

[Anthonyexmouth]

I think I'd be inclined to save a little longer and get an heq5 and mount your se4 to that. By the time you do any modding to that mount you'll be spending about the same. 

[Rob]

5 minutes ago, Anthonyexmouth said:

I think I'd be inclined to save a little longer and get an heq5 and mount your se4 to that. By the time you do any modding to that mount you'll be spending about the same. 

Took the words right out of my mouth there!. Also its the old 'Buy cheap, buy twice!' which really makes no sense at all. Save, learn stuff with the 4se. Grab that HEQ5 to give you the base and work up from there.

Rob

[alan potts]

I don't think I need to say the same.

[scitmon]

Astrophotgraphy can quickly become an expensive hobby, you should do it right the first time when it comes to your purchase choices.  I agree with above that the HEQ5 mount is a minimum and normally goes well with a small short focal length refractor or a small to medium sized Reflector.  The nexstars are more suited to small bright objects like planets.

If your budget is really tight, perhaps you should consider using just your dslr camera with something like https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-star-adventurer/skywatcher-star-adventurer-astronomy-bundle.html

[CraigT82]

Well if you can get scope and mount for 200 and then sell the newt for 100 you're laughing really. It's an EQ5 class mount but I think I read somehwere that it has better bearings than the EQ5... I might be wrong though.

However the motor kit for the Exos-2 is over £200 I think, and I'm not sure if the cheaper EQ5 motors can be fitted?

I'd be more inclined to buy a used EQ5 with motors already fitted, should be able to pick one up for less than £200, wont have the faff of selling the newt either.

 

[alan potts]

I would be inclined to say the HEQ 5 Pro would be a better buy over that, it is a decent mount, had one, you even see them form time time S/H. I bought a Heq 5 Pro and then got the scope's bug, first extra one I bought was a M/N 190mm, which was OK for visual but not AP. Now I find myself looking at the Meade 12 inch and thinking, if only I bought a bigger mount, many have been there.

Alan 

[vlaiv]

38 minutes ago, alan potts said:

I would be inclined to say the HEQ 5 Pro would be a better buy over that, it is a decent mount, had one, you even see them form time time S/H. I bought a Heq 5 Pro and then got the scope's bug, first extra one I bought was a M/N 190mm, which was OK for visual but not AP. Now I find myself looking at the Meade 12 inch and thinking, if only I bought a bigger mount, many have been there.

Alan 

Probably off topic, but if I understood you correctly, your opinion on MN190 is that it's OK for visual but not good for AP?

I was under impression that said scope is intended for AP and have seen many nice images taken with it. I personally don't like shapes of bright stars in some of those images, but that is personal preference. What is your view on AP with MN190?

[Gregely]

Thank you everyone for the quick response

I heard that good advice is to be found on here.

Astrophotography as in full blown autoguiding and hours worth of exposures is not really my interest I simply wish to locate an object (get the satisfaction of finding it) observing it through the scope than snapping a photo or two to enhance the details (within limits)

DSLR only astrophotography doesn't really intrest me.

So I was looking at the heq5 but used on astro buy and sell it starts for £400 but more like £500. So that would be quite long before I could have one.

The way I am thinking is if I do this I can have an eq mount now, that is good enough to learn an eq mount. Also has prospects over time.

Can an exos-2 with mods match up to a heq5?

What I read an eq5 motor would fit (little bit of DIY) the exos-2 so I could start out with a single axis motor drive to give me basic tracking. 

Is this true?

Anybody would like to estimate the resell value of the Newtonian? (Provided it is what I think it is and not ruined. I know it's a risk)

Sorry for the multitude of questions but I feel that this is a good deal so I don't want to pass it up to regret it.

I will learn to write short posts I promise...

Thank you

 

[Anthonyexmouth]

1 minute ago, vlaiv said:

Probably off topic, but if I understood you correctly, your opinion on MN190 is that it's OK for visual but not good for AP?

I was under impression that said scope is intended for AP and have seen many nice images taken with it. I personally don't like shapes of bright stars in some of those images, but that is personal preference. What is your view on AP with MN190?

I read that as it's ok for visual on that mount. 

[vlaiv]

1 minute ago, Anthonyexmouth said:

I read that as it's ok for visual on that mount. 

Ah, get it - too heavy / long for HEQ5 then - right (it is 12.5kg according to one source so it makes sense).

[RolandKol]

30 minutes ago, Gregely said:

Thank you everyone for the quick response

I heard that good advice is to be found on here.

Astrophotography as in full blown autoguiding and hours worth of exposures is not really my interest I simply wish to locate an object (get the satisfaction of finding it) observing it through the scope than snapping a photo or two to enhance the details (within limits)

DSLR only astrophotography doesn't really intrest me.

So I was looking at the heq5 but used on astro buy and sell it starts for £400 but more like £500. So that would be quite long before I could have one.

The way I am thinking is if I do this I can have an eq mount now, that is good enough to learn an eq mount. Also has prospects over time.

Can an exos-2 with mods match up to a heq5?

What I read an eq5 motor would fit (little bit of DIY) the exos-2 so I could start out with a single axis motor drive to give me basic tracking. 

Is this true?

Anybody would like to estimate the resell value of the Newtonian? (Provided it is what I think it is and not ruined. I know it's a risk)

Sorry for the multitude of questions but I feel that this is a good deal so I don't want to pass it up to regret it.

I will learn to write short posts I promise...

Thank you

 

Just an opinion....

Before you go ahead an buy something cheaper than HEQ5, check how many nights are cloudless in your area...
So if you will start your DYI project from a very cheap mount, - you will end up wasting £££££ and LOoooots of Clear nights.... Which are somewhere between 1 and 3 per month in Uk... sadly...
Just imagine, - you placed some motors, connected, checked during a day time, looks all good... And wait 3 or 4 weeks to test... during a test you find out something does not work as should be... so wait for another 3 weeks ...

plus, keep in mind, even if the night is clear, - you cannot be 100% you will be able to image due to other/personal reasons.

Summer comes... If you are able to see planets, you can try Planetary imaging on your current setup, you just need a high speed cam, record short vids 30sec or 60 depends how fast Planets will drift of your FOV, - with highest frame rate per sec as possible and stack the best frames from them...

and if you will start enjoying the hobby, unfortunately... start saving £££....

and the highspeed cam you can use as a guidercam later.

Edited May 2, 2019 by RolandKol

[alan potts]

32 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

Probably off topic, but if I understood you correctly, your opinion on MN190 is that it's OK for visual but not good for AP?

I was under impression that said scope is intended for AP and have seen many nice images taken with it. I personally don't like shapes of bright stars in some of those images, but that is personal preference. What is your view on AP with MN190?

No not at all, the mount HEQ 5 Pro is fine for visual with this scope but not for AP, this is why I bought a AZ EQ 6. The scope is a fine visual instrument and from what little bit I have done ( not guided yet) it is a very fine flat field scope for AP, fairly fast too. Sorry if I mislead you.

Alan.

[Gregely]

8 minutes ago, RolandKol said:

Just an opinion....

Before you go ahead an buy something cheaper than HEQ5, check how many nights are cloudless in your area...
So if you will start your DYI project from a very cheap mount, - you will end up wasting £££££ and LOoooots of Clear nights.... Which are somewhere between 1 and 3 per month in Uk... sadly...
Just imagine, - you placed some motors, connected, checked during a day time, looks all good... And wait 3 or 4 weeks to test... during a test you find out something does not work as should be... so wait for another 3 weeks ...

plus, keep in mind, even if the night is clear, - you cannot be 100% you will be able to image due to other/personal reasons.

Summer comes... If you are able to see planets, you can try Planetary imaging on your current setup, you just need a high speed cam, record short vids 30sec or 60 depends how fast Planets will drift of your FOV, - with highest frame rate per sec as possible and stack the best frames from them...

and if you will start enjoying the hobby, unfortunately... start saving £££....

and the highspeed cam you can use as a guidercam later.

This is great input I hadn't considered the missed clear nights. Hmm something to think about. But I do enjoy a good tinker....Hmm...

Is a Bresser exos-2 that much inferior to the heq5? 

How about the Newtonian OTA in question? Anyone wants to weigh in on that?

Thanks

 

[John]

I don't like the look of the newtonian I'm afraid.

It has an F/4.5 primary mirror which is a non-standard focal ratio. Making an F/4.5 parabola accurately is a skilled and time consuming process so not inexpensive. If it's figure is poor then the performance will also be poor no matter how much the optics are collimated.

It's difficult to express specifically why but to me the scope has "don't buy" written over it from the perspective of my 35+ years in the hobby.

 

[Gregely]

Thank you John

That is interesting. I haven't made up my mind I probably will leave it or I might make a ridiculously low offer on it.

Anyone else has anything to add? 

How about exos2 is that a good mount?

I know heq5 five is the best for me but I am just interested. There seems to be a lot of mixed reviews on it and bad about its GOTO.

Thanks

Greg

[John]

I would not even consider it for any money I'm afraid - I can't see the point when you can buy a used Skywatcher 200P optical tube for around £100-£120 on the used market and that will have good optics (I've owned a few of them).

[Gregely]

12 minutes ago, John said:

I would not even consider it for any money I'm afraid - I can't see the point when you can buy a used Skywatcher 200P optical tube for around £100-£120 on the used market and that will have good optics (I've owned a few of them).

I understand that, it is the mount that I want really. Is the Bresser exos-2 mount really that rubbish?

[John]

4 minutes ago, Gregely said:

I understand that, it is the mount that I want really. Is the Bresser exos-2 mount really that rubbish?

I've not used one but from what I've read they are similar in capacity / ability to the Skywatcher EQ5 or Celestron CG5 mounts.

 

[Gregely]

That is what I read too apart from a higher payload capacity of 13kg for visual just under heq5's 15kg. But if I could get it for about £125-£150 that could mean that in a year or so saving I could have an 8" Newtonian OTA or sct on it for visual. So  would that be worth it mind it doesn't have any motors.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Gregely
Autocorrect

[Cosmic Geoff]

It seems that you are determined to buy the outfit you cite despite the advice given. ?   If you are used to a dinky 4SE the weight and bulk of a 203mm Newt and EQ mount may come as a nasty shock.

I would point out that the combination of 200mm Newtonian + equatorial mount, while often offered to beginners is particularly user-unfriendly. See my negative comments under "Advice on eyepiece" here.  As for resale value, I paid £60 + carriage for my 203mm Newtonian OTA.  The seller had been dropping the price in an effort to shift it.

Re EAA, you should experiment with the kit you have got, and if you buy anything else, buy it to purpose and not because it's cheap. Be clear about what you are trying to achieve. For planets, if you are not satisfied with the eyeball view, forget EAA and go for planetary imaging. You can dabble in this with your current 4SE and a suitable planetary video camera.  Your 4SE with its built in flip mirror is actually designed for this. (If I quoted the cost new of my current planetary imaging setup you would probably feel ill ?).

For deep-space EAA, I have had promising results with a 102mm f5 refractor, ASI120MC camera and SLT GoTo mount for near-live EAA.  The f5 gives usefully wide field with the small (planetary) sensor and the GoTo mount is needed to find the targets blind.  The results on galaxies did not look exciting, but when I compared some of the images with visual view from a 203mm SCT I was amazed.    You could use your 4SE mount which would accept an alternative small refractor like the Startravel.   Do read the EAA/ EVAA threads and see what other people are doing.   Note that for faint extended objects you want a 'fast' telescope rather than a Maksutov or SCT.

[Rob]

For Info:

The EXOs-2 is basically a Celestron CG5. Its has metal bearings on both axis, so it is slightly better than a EQ5 and hence the 13kg payload. You can also retro fit the Skywatcher EQ5 goto upgrade (only mod required is to change one fitting bolt on the RA). I have fully researched this in the past.

Also. I'm with John here on the OTA. It may/will be poor, and poss unrsellable to be fair!.

If it were me I'd skip it unless you could bag the setup for silly money!. Rob

[Gregely]

2 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

It seems that you are determined to buy the outfit you cite despite the advice given. ?   If you are used to a dinky 4SE the weight and bulk of a 203mm Newt and EQ mount may come as a nasty shock.

I would point out that the combination of 200mm Newtonian + equatorial mount, while often offered to beginners is particularly user-unfriendly. See my negative comments under "Advice on eyepiece" here.  As for resale value, I paid £60 + carriage for my 203mm Newtonian OTA.  The seller had been dropping the price in an effort to shift it.

Thanks Geoff

I may seem stubborn but I do take the advice onboard. I doubt the seller will accept my offer...

I have no intention to keep the OTA I would probably just try to sell it and keep the mount. If nobody buying it maybe tinker with it take it apart learn from it so if/when I buy a good quality bigger scope. I am thinking at least a year before I move up or more.

2 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

Re EAA, you should experiment with the kit you have got, and if you buy anything else, buy it to purpose and not because it's cheap. Be clear about what you are trying to achieve. For planets, if you are not satisfied with the eyeball view, forget EAA and go for planetary imaging. You can dabble in this with your current 4SE and a suitable planetary video camera.  Your 4SE with its built in flip mirror is actually designed for this. (If I quoted the cost new of my current planetary imaging setup you would probably feel ill ?).

This is the plan when I said EAA I probably wasn't clear that I just want to use the sensor of my (or future webcam, imaging device etc.) Camera to add to the visual observing. And I am aware that this hobby probably will over the years will eat up tens of thousands of pounds (it's the my wife's fault she got me the scope...?)

I am keeping the 4se OTA for sure.

1 hour ago, Rob said:

For Info:

The EXOs-2 is basically a Celestron CG5. Its has metal bearings on both axis, so it is slightly better than a EQ5 and hence the 13kg payload. You can also retro fit the Skywatcher EQ5 goto upgrade (only mod required is to change one fitting bolt on the RA). I have fully researched this in the past.

Also. I'm with John here on the OTA. It may/will be poor, and poss unrsellable to be fair!.

If it were me I'd skip it unless you could bag the setup for silly money!. Rob

Thanks Rob

That is the confirmation information I was looking for.

I might be masochistic (probably am...?) I want to go Spartan fully manual for at least a bit to force myself to learn the equipment which I can later (year or so) add electronic aids to (motor drives, goto functionality etc) I feel I will learn more that way if I get frustrated I cannot simply switch to the GOTO. 

Well I will be making a silly offer I think the seller will be happy with it but you don't ask you don't get...?

Lastly I just want to thank everyone on SGL for all the advice and putting up with my stubbornness.

Greg

[Rob]

25 minutes ago, Gregely said:

Thanks Rob

That is the confirmation information I was looking for.

I might be masochistic (probably am...?) I want to go Spartan fully manual for at least a bit to force myself to learn the equipment which I can later (year or so) add electronic aids to (motor drives, goto functionality etc) I feel I will learn more that way if I get frustrated I cannot simply switch to the GOTO. 

Well I will be making a silly offer I think the seller will be happy with it but you don't ask you don't get...?

Lastly I just want to thank everyone on SGL for all the advice and putting up with my stubbornness.

Greg

Welcome. And good luck!.

As a guide the EXOS-2 mount with no motors new is £300. So if you do manage to grab this at say £140 ish you would have done well. Also EQ5 Enhanced dual drives should go on there at a later date!.

Best Rob

 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Rob

[Gregely]

So it has been a few weeks I just wanted to put an update on in case anyone is interested.

So the mount and scope has been listed 5 times on eBay I put in 140 for it got accepted. 

I picked it today overall so far happy with my purchase. No details had been really checked apart from visual observing and checking Ra/Dec movement. Seems fine.

I can see no immediate issues with the mount.

The scope seems in good nick mirror doesn't seem to have anything on it I can see down the tube.

Hopefully tomorrow I can check it out more in dept  try my first ever collimation and hoping that tomorrow night I can see a few stars peeking between the clouds and try it with the 4se and the 8" Newtonian that came with it. 

Greg