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HenryFitz

And recommendation for 11'' Aperture tube to beginner?

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For deep sky observations, can you make suggestion which will be more fitted with my behavior: mobility is not a big concern as a least 11" aperture is must whereupon computerized stuff is no good choice for me. 

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We are willing to help, but need more information. Are you a beginner, in which case starting with an 11" scope is probably a bad idea? What is the problem with computerized stuff? Budget? Location (city or country?)

If you want a large SCT you will have to shop around to get a setup that isn't computerized.

The other likely option is a large Dobsonian.

Personally I would be reluctant to accept a non-computerized scope of 11" or greater aperture even as a gift.

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Don't disregard a goto system even to start if you can afford if. I enjoy my 8" reflector but I find I spend a lot of time searching to find something, many times being unsucessful.

My next scope, when the budget allows will be goto system/tracking capable. You can't believe how quickly something moves through your field of view at higher magnification. 

Go as large an aperture as you can afford and easily handle moving around. And enjoy the wonders you'll behold.

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6 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

We are willing to help, but need more information. Are you a beginner, in which case starting with an 11" scope is probably a bad idea? What is the problem with computerized stuff? Budget? Location (city or country?)

If you want a large SCT you will have to shop around to get a setup that isn't computerized.

The other likely option is a large Dobsonian.

Personally I would be reluctant to accept a non-computerized scope of 11" or greater aperture even as a gift.

a beginner.

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mmm, I thought it would be rather cozy to hang around a Goto system; but if that relatively hard to maintain manually than I will be waiting for CGE pro with EDGE HD. As far as money is concern, I need to buy me a little more time;

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If you want to get a good advice you really need to give us something to base our advice on.

Why do you need at least 11"? Both 11" SCT and 12" dobsonian are going to be big and heavy. Both have pros and cons. I think you should really have a look at one in person before you make a decision.

Do you already own a telescope? Where are you going to be observing from? Can you keep the scope assembled and just roll it out? Do you plan taking it to remote dark sites? What's you budget?

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To the OP.   I would rethink completely.  A 200 Dob is where you should be thinking.  Simple, easy, quite small. and you will learn the night sky  Do your ground work with that and the progress to a 11" scope.  Otherwise, a 11" SCT suddenly in your house/garage and you are going to think wow - it's a whopper.  Trust us.  We've been there and done that.  A 200 Dob is a fantastic scope and in no way a "baby" scope.  Telewxopes increase in size exponentially as the aperture increases.  Also, large aperture magnifies the negative effects of the atmosphere as well.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html

 

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Posted (edited)
On 22/04/2019 at 20:28, pregulla said:

If you want to get a good advice you really need to give us something to base our advice on.

Why do you need at least 11"? Both 11" SCT and 12" dobsonian are going to be big and heavy. Both have pros and cons. I think you should really have a look at one in person before you make a decision.

Do you already own a telescope? Where are you going to be observing from? Can you keep the scope assembled and just roll it out? Do you plan taking it to remote dark sites? What's you budget?

mmm, as I know the bigger the aperture, image will be less faint. It doesn't matter how much heavier it will; will not carry them in my back-pocket: EDEG HD 14" and GCE pro is my first choice . I can manage 6000 GBP by now, but I can wait

Edited by HenryFitz

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3 hours ago, HenryFitz said:

mmm, as I know the bigger the aperture, image will be less faint. It doesn't matter how much heavier it will;

If you are thinking of extended objects like galaxies and nebulae, the larger scope cannot make them brighter, it can only make them bigger for a given surface brightness. On the other hand, the big scope shows a narrower and narrower field of view, making object location harder and spoiling the view of larger objects.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, HenryFitz said:

mmm, as I know the bigger the aperture, image will be less faint. It doesn't matter how much heavier it will; will not carry them in my back-pocket: EDEG HD 14" and GCE pro is my first choice . I can manage 6000 GBP by now, but I can wait 

There is no obvious reason for your preference, given that you apparently just want to look at galaxies. The regular non-Edge SCT will suffice.  You also don't need an equatorial mount, though admittedly in this size class the choice of alternative mounts is limited. (Meade do a LX200 with fork mount). Also be aware that the setup will be so heavy* that there will be a disincentive to set it up for a brief session and you should maybe be including an observatory in your budget. I have seen a 16" SCT and that one sits in a 'full works' brick built observatory.

If you live in a town, buying a telescope just to look at galaxies is likely to prove a very poor investment. Where I live it's rather a waste of time and I can detect as many doing EAA with a small cheap refractor.  OTOH if you have access to a dark skies site, even with a 8" SCT it would take you many nights to look briefly at each of the possible galaxy targets in turn.

EDIT: I looked it up and I would be physically incapable of assembling this combo without assistance.

Edited by Cosmic Geoff
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And for a beginner I would recommend a GoTo and some additional software to do plate solving - learning to star hop, with such a restricted field of view and by the look of it, non-optimal skies-  is a very quick way to put off a beginner as they 'can never find anything'

(Cue debate on GoTo)

Neil

 

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Since no one has asked, what is your budget?  What is the maximum you're comfortable lifting/carrying even a short distance?  I ask because I have 15" Dob with Sky Commander digital setting circles, but the mirror box weighs 65 pounds with it's full thickness 2" mirror, and after a back injury, lifting it is a non-starter.

I would probably point you toward a light weight Dob with DSCs since they are much less complicated than a full blown goto system.  Something like the Sumerian Optics telescopes.  You could leave it partially assembled when using it at home for brighter objects, and completely disassemble it for transport to dark sky sites where you could actually see galaxies.

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On 24/04/2019 at 06:51, Ags said:

If you are thinking of extended objects like galaxies and nebulae, the larger scope cannot make them brighter, it can only make them bigger for a given surface brightness. On the other hand, the big scope shows a narrower and narrower field of view, making object location harder and spoiling the view of larger objects.

larger scopes then solely perfect on planetary viewings ?

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On 24/04/2019 at 15:29, Louis D said:

Since no one has asked, what is your budget?  What is the maximum you're comfortable lifting/carrying even a short distance?  I ask because I have 15" Dob with Sky Commander digital setting circles, but the mirror box weighs 65 pounds with it's full thickness 2" mirror, and after a back injury, lifting it is a non-starter.

I would probably point you toward a light weight Dob with DSCs since they are much less complicated than a full blown goto system.  Something like the Sumerian Optics telescopes.  You could leave it partially assembled when using it at home for brighter objects, and completely disassemble it for transport to dark sky sites where you could actually see galaxies.

I don't like DOB, 

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On 24/04/2019 at 08:00, Cosmic Geoff said:

There is no obvious reason for your preference, given that you apparently just want to look at galaxies. The regular non-Edge SCT will suffice.  You also don't need an equatorial mount, though admittedly in this size class the choice of alternative mounts is limited. (Meade do a LX200 with fork mount). Also be aware that the setup will be so heavy* that there will be a disincentive to set it up for a brief session and you should maybe be including an observatory in your budget. I have seen a 16" SCT and that one sits in a 'full works' brick built observatory.

If you live in a town, buying a telescope just to look at galaxies is likely to prove a very poor investment. Where I live it's rather a waste of time and I can detect as many doing EAA with a small cheap refractor.  OTOH if you have access to a dark skies site, even with a 8" SCT it would take you many nights to look briefly at each of the possible galaxy targets in turn.

EDIT: I looked it up and I would be physically incapable of assembling this combo without assistance.

:(

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2 hours ago, HenryFitz said:

larger scopes then solely perfect on planetary viewings ?

No, larger scopes can be "better" on all sorts of targets, my point is only that the difference compared to a smaller scope can be quite subtle and that there are trade-offs.

Planets are another example of another trade-off: the larger scope is more affected by atmospheric turbulence, so on many nights a smaller scope will provide a more pleasing and less blurry view of planets.

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@HenryFitz people are trying to help you, but it would be very helpful if you would give some more information. Short one line answers are not really enough if you expect useful information in return.

Useful info includes but is not limited to:

What is your budget?

Have you used a scope before?

Will your scope be setup and taken down each time?

Do you need to carry it any distance to set it up?

Where will you store it?

What are you skies like in terms of light pollution?

Where will you observe, near houses or in rural setting?

Can you find you way around the sky without assistance?

What sort of targets do you wish to see? Planets and deep sky astronomy have different requirements.

Do you have any interest in Astrophotography or will you stick to visual observing?

Please give some more info then you will get more useful answers.

Thanks,

Stu

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1 hour ago, Ags said:

No, larger scopes can be "better" on all sorts of targets, my point is only that the difference compared to a smaller scope can be quite subtle and that there are trade-offs.

Planets are another example of another trade-off: the larger scope is more affected by atmospheric turbulence, so on many nights a smaller scope will provide a more pleasing and less blurry view of planets.

My understanding is that smaller unobstructed telescope can be better than larger reflector under poor seeing conditions, but if both scopes have central obstruction larger aperture will always be better (by how much and whether it is worth the extra weight and hassle is a different question).

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For deep sky on a traditional mount, I reckon a 300mm f4 Newtonian on an EQ6 would be portable. The Newt would need some decent carry handles though; it's not the weight, it's the bulk. An EQ6 is easy to use either with or without GoTo - I use mine without.

Note, however, 'fast' Newtonians are not for beginners. They require accurate collimation to perform at their best.

A Celestron C11 would also be portable but would be limited by it's f10 focal ratio to about 1° maximum field of view.

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You seem to suggest that by mobility, your home site skies are not conducive to  quality observation of the skies.
If that is not the case, then perhaps you should consider a home base for your main work, and that may one day include 
branching off into imaging. If that is potentially where you would like to evolve too, then concentrate your spending towards that end.
A home built Observatory should be seriously considered, and focus on the equipment to furnish it with.
A pier mounted Goto mount and a fast imaging telescope is a dream team for most of us, and you could supplement that with ~
a reasonably priced grab and go scope for your forays into the  surrounding countryside  to enjoy your observations with friends.
Much to consider, so plan carefully, and wisely, this stuff ain't exactly cheap, so give some serious though to just how far
 you want to indulge in this great way of life, it is a commitment after all ?.
Good Luck in your search, plenty more advice available from SGL's finest too.
Ron

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3 hours ago, Stu said:

@HenryFitz people are trying to help you, but it would be very helpful if you would give some more information. Short one line answers are not really enough if you expect useful information in return.

Useful info includes but is not limited to:

What is your budget?

Have you used a scope before?

Will your scope be setup and taken down each time?

Do you need to carry it any distance to set it up?

Where will you store it?

What are you skies like in terms of light pollution?

Where will you observe, near houses or in rural setting?

Can you find you way around the sky without assistance?

What sort of targets do you wish to see? Planets and deep sky astronomy have different requirements.

Do you have any interest in Astrophotography or will you stick to visual observing?

Please give some more info then you will get more useful answers.

Thanks,

Stu

My budget will be around 6000GBP .. 

I will store it on the rooftop 

I decided to study  Astrophysics 

I found Celestron EDGE series very efficient.. 

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7 minutes ago, HenryFitz said:

 

I found Celestron EDGE series very efficient.

Thanks Henry. What do you mean by efficient?

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OK, let's  start with - what do you want to achieve? You mentioned you want to study astrophysics - that is great, but has nothing to do with buying an amateur telescope. Assuming you are about to start a university  course: Observational data is important, but that won't happen from your back garden or with a small telescope. In fact, a friend of mine with a PhD in Astrophysics once mentioned that she had done a lot of observation with the largest telescopes of the world, but never for her own research. In any case - if you are going to do actual research, your university will have the facilities or provide you with access to them. If you would research into distributional properties of galaxies you would probably tap into existing data such as the SPSS.

If you want to observe  to keep the link between theory and the "real world", that is great - but then the same questions apply as with any amateur astronomer. Unless you can mount it outside permanently, you need to be able to set it up quickly. If you are living anywhere close to street lights you will want to be able to travel to a dark sky site - you will see more in a dark place with a 6 inch scope than in a light-polluted place with an 11 inch instrument. I have a 9.25 inch and a 6 inch SCT, plus a 102mm refractor and a 50mm H alpha scope - the solar scope is used most (given weather in the UK), then the 6". For me, the 9.25" is at the edge of what I am physically able to set up on my own.

 

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Useful advice here from FLO site.

Dave

celestron.thumb.PNG.857db362926605afcf4e28438b1b1028.PNG

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14 hours ago, HenryFitz said:

I will store it on the rooftop 

Will you also observe from the rooftop or carry it down from there to another place?  If observing from the rooftop, you do realize that seeing through rising thermals coming off a hot roof cooling during the night is an awful combination of conditions.  Ideally, you want to place your scope as far from rooftops, asphalt and concrete as possible for these reasons.  Perhaps Oxford, England doesn't get as hot as Texas so y'all don't worry so much about this issue, though.

14 hours ago, HenryFitz said:

My budget will be around 6000GBP .. 

How much of that will go toward a possible rooftop observatory?  If no observatory up there, why store the scope up there?  Most folks store their scopes in a garage, shed, or anteroom.

22 hours ago, HenryFitz said:

I don't like DOB, 

Understood, they're not for everyone.  If you want to look for galaxies, I was just trying to get you the most aperture for the money, and Dobs are the way to go for this.  You need aperture, and lots of it, to pull in galaxies.

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