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24 mm Ascension Super Abbe Orthoscopics - buy a pair now, before they sell out!


paulastro

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I've had a pair of Kyson 16.8 Orthoscopic eyepieces for years, and fully endorse Mike's  (mikeDnight) comments on their performance for binoviewer use.  I was also present when they were tested alongside other single high-end (high cost!) eyepieces.  In fact, Mike 'borrowed' my Kyson 16.8s for four years before he decided to let me have them back and buy his own pair!  ?

Anyway, I decided a week ago I needed a pair of 24 mm Orthoscopics for my binoviewer.  Searching round, it seemed to me that they are not as easily available as they used to be, and found them costing over £60 in places where they were available, and many suppliers not seeming to have much of a range in focal lengths.  I eventually came across this add for Ascension Super Abbe Orthoscopics, which is what Opticstar brand their orthoscopics.  Not only did they have 24 mm versions in stock, but at an amazingly cheap £24.95 each.

http://www.opticstar.com/Run/Astronomy/Astro-Accessories-Telescopes-Ascension.asp?p=0_10_5_1_1_1

I snapped a pair up as soon as I found them.  They came in bolt cases inside plain white card boxes.  As you can see in the photo, they do not have 'Ascension' written anywhere on them.  On the reverse side they have 'mulit coated'..  They look identical in form and construction to my old 16.8 Kysons, and have the same pale gold lettering on them.  In the photo the specled highlights on the eyepieces are caused by the flash.

 I got to test them out yesterday in the daylight (in my binoviewer of course) using my SW 72ED - a scope which still amazes me in how well it performs every time I use it.  My  best view was of a Starling at about 45 feet away (x70 with the x2 barlow element in the barrel of the BV) with the Starling not fitting fully into the field of view.  I was hopping they were as good as my 16.8s, and indeed I was not disappointed, the sharpness and the detail in the feathers with wonderful colour variation in the plumage was really stunning.  It all boded well for a night time test.

I got the opportunity last night on the Moon for a half our before it finally disappeared as the cloud increased.  The seeing was affected by fine almost continuous scintillation behind various thickness's of hazy and then cloud.  Even in these conditions the detail was excellent at times, and sharp across the field using my Astro-Tech 102ED, giving x 118 approximately.  There were several lunar features nicely placed, but Bailly (the largest crater on the near-side, 183 miles in diameter, but always foreshortened being near the S limb) was about as well placed as it gets).  I particularly like this crater and the detail was really excellent especially for the indifferent seeing. The image was sharp to the edge of the field and there were no extraneous flare or other bothersome artifacts, also very contrasty in all but the thickest haze.  Every bit as good as my 16.8 Kysons as for as I can tell.

At £49.90 for both eyepieces including free postage, they are an absolute bargain for a high performing pair of binocular eyepieces.  If you're thinking of getting some I wouldn't hesitate too long, now everyone knows how good they are the remaining stock will probably be snapped up quickly!  :smile:

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Edited by paulastro
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I seem to remember they were advertised as having 20mm ef on the 24mm's. Paul spoke to me this morning and said he could comfortably see the field and wearing his glasses didn't create a problem, despite the slight recess.

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I ask about eye relief because I've got a pair of Orion Sirius 26mm Plossls, and the eye relief is pretty tight (11mm) because the eye lens is recessed so much.  I much prefer using my cheap 23mm 62° Aspherics off of ebay because of their much wider field and comfortable eye relief (17mm) with eyeglasses.  Over the shared portion of their fields, the 23mm is just as sharp as the 26mm.

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Yes, Mike is correct.  The eye relief is probably a tad poorer than that on the 16.8s because of the recess.  Having said that, I have no problem with the 16.8s and I have no problem with the 24 mms either.  Do bear in mind though, I only use them in the binoviewer for the Moon and planets.  So, the size of the observable field is not the main concern.  In terms of the performance, I thing the price is a real give-away price, and as a pair in a binoviewer they will out-perform any  single eyepiece I have ever used. 

Not good news if you compare their performance in a  BV with any mono eyepiece you may have paid £300 for!  :smile:

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It's interesting that these do so well in binoviewers. The reports I've read about them using in mono mode compared with other orthos (HD and classic "volcano tops") have usually given the other ortho designs a clear performance advantage. Eg:

http://www.wlcastleman.com/equip/reviews/5mm_EP/5mm_ep.html

There must be something about binoviewing that really suits the design of these "super abbe" eyepieces.

 

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I've used my 16.8's in mono mode and they are nice but there is some edge distortion in faster scopes. I'd imagine the significant increased amplification of a barlow in the binoviewer, puts them more in their comfort zone, as they would be in a longer focal length scope. I dare say they'd be pretty good in mono use in an F15 or more!

Edited by mikeDnight
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John, I'm not sure that my observations indicate there is anything special comparing the 'super abbes' with other orthoscopics.  I would think if you used other orthos in bino mode they would perform excellently too.  In binoviewer mode it's more to do with the physiology of the brain and how the brain produces the final image when the brain is receiving an image to each eye and 'combining' them when  compared with one one image going to a single eye.  Whatever the cause, the effect is very real, and I would suggest most observers will gain an advantage in planetary and lunar observing when using binocular vision.  I know many observers who, even reluctantly and very sceptical,  have tried binoviewing for the Moon and planets and never looked back.  Of course, it doesn't necessarily work for everyone, but for most I think it is a distinct advantage.

I'm no optical expert, but when I was studying for my psychology degree I studied the physiology of the brain, and firmly believe this is why binocular viewing is so effective in the perception of planetary and lunar detail - using just about any set of eyepieces.

There's nothing new under the sun, and in 'Telescopes for Stargazing' by Henry E Paul, first published in 1965, he refers to this effect.  I would suspect the effect has been known before this.  Apart from this, Paul's book is a classic in my view, is illustrated profusely and is well worth obtaining by anyone interested in telescopic astronomy.

 

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I agree, Paul, both about the "2 eyes better than 1" point, and also that  not everyone can see the benefit of two eyed viewing.

It seems that some people can merge two images better than others, and others can't do it at all.

I had to persevere myself, and I think I was "trying too hard" to merge the images to begin with. I found that if I opened up the bv's IPD to its widest, and then slowly closed them up while "just looking"-almost like with binoculars, just "expecting" to see a single, mono type view, but with both eyes,  then there it was. I hope that makes some sense.

I also do think that binoviewers are better with some objects than others: for me, lunar, planets and some doubles show best, while with some clusters I seem to see better with a nice modern wide field in mono mode, but yet others, such as M13,  do look great with a pair of good orthos.

M42 is an interesting one: my most pleasing ever view was with binoviewers, ie the whole object showed so much detail. But for close up resolution of the Trap, I find that a good single ep works best.  Clearly the loss of light with the split beam in bv's does play a part here.

I'm not a big lunar fan, but since gasping at the clarity and comfort of the binoview mode presentation the first time I viewed it this way, I much prefer the binoviewer for the Moon..same for Jupiter and Saturn.

Strange, isn't it?!

Dave

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19 minutes ago, F15Rules said:

I agree, Paul, both about the "2 eyes better than 1" point, and also that  not everyone can see the benefit of two eyed viewing.

It seems that some people can merge two images better than others, and others can't do it at all.

I had to persevere myself, and I think I was "trying too hard" to merge the images to begin with. I found that if I opened up the bv's IPD to its widest, and then slowly closed them up while "just looking"-almost like with binoculars, just "expecting" to see a single, mono type view, but with both eyes,  then there it was. I hope that makes some sense.

I also do think that binoviewers are better with some objects than others: for me, lunar, planets and some doubles show best, while with some clusters I seem to see better with a nice modern wide field in mono mode, but yet others, such as M13,  do look great with a pair of good orthos.

M42 is an interesting one: my most pleasing ever view was with binoviewers, ie the whole object showed so much detail. But for close up resolution of the Trap, I find that a good single ep works best.  Clearly the loss of light with the split beam in bv's does play a part here.

I'm not a big lunar fan, but since gasping at the clarity and comfort of the binoview mode presentation the first time I viewed it this way, I much prefer the binoviewer for the Moon..same for Jupiter and Saturn.

Strange, isn't it?!

Dave

Good comments on technique Dave.   I find it's helpful to tell people to adjust the distance between the two barrels of the BV first by just holding it up to the eyes (with eyepieces) and adjusting it by looking at the bright circle of light you will see until both eyes can see this circle - with the BV not in the telescope at first, but pointing at the sky  in the daytime.   It's also best to start a little away from the eyepieces and slowly move your eyes towards them, many people put their eyes very close to the eyepieces straight away which makes it harder.  Also, people can practice using their BV in the daytime to get used to it, pointing the scope to the horizon or as far away as you can to focus.   

I almost never use my BV on anything but the moon and planets,  I also prefer a single wider field eyepiece with good eye relief for everything else.

I forgive you for not being a lunar fan Dave - just!  :laugh2:

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"The Super Abbe's are near junk status", states one of the comments. He simply hasn't used them in a binoviewer! As far as poor polish etc is concerned, they are excellent, otherwise they would give poor bino views also. In mono use with a short focal length scope they would not be the best choice as they suffer from some edge distortion, but in long focal lengths these eyepieces are pretty sweet. In a binoviewer they are outstanding, knocking the black and greens completely off their perch. Even mono high end top quality eyepieces can't compete with the bino paired Super Abbe's, so junk they definitely are not!!

And although they are out of their comfort zone in shorter scopes, unless used with a barlow, they can still deliver crisp, transparent views:

1382289106_2017-07-1709_13_23.jpg.25861107b190b69c3d31ba3aa340e923.jpg

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As I said, the benefits of using 2 eyes obviously improve the performance of this particular design of ortho greatly. It does beg the question though as to whether even better quality orthos used in the binoviewer would move the performance up another notch ? :evil4:

 

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2 hours ago, John said:

As I said, the benefits of using 2 eyes obviously improve the performance of this particular design of ortho greatly. It does beg the question though as to whether even better quality orthos used in the binoviewer would move the performance up another notch ? :evil4:

 

That's something I try not to think about John. Although the views are so unbelievably good in the Super Abbe's when in bino use, its hard to imagine how the view could get any better. 

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3 hours ago, John said:

It does beg the question though as to whether even better quality orthos used in the binoviewer would move the performance up another notch ? :evil4:

 

After observing the Moon in poor conditions after midnight early this am using my 24mm Super Abbes  with binoviewer and  my Astro-Tech 102ED,  I think this question is not the most pressing question I would be asking.   A more pressing questions anyone still using 'costly end' single eyepieces to observe the Moon and planets should be asking themselves, is why on earth are they still doing this if they haven't yet tried using a binoviewer with 'low cost end' orthoscopic or anything eyepieces for that matter. 

Using a binoviewer or not using a binoviewer  on the Moon and planets will make a vastly bigger difference in the views obtained than the difference between using this ortho or that ortho or any other eyepieces you choose to use in your binoviewer. 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, paulastro said:

After observing the Moon in poor conditions after midnight early this am using my 24mm Super Abbes  with binoviewer and  my Astro-Tech 102ED,  I think this question is not the most pressing question I would be asking.   A more pressing questions anyone still using 'costly end' single eyepieces to observe the Moon and planets should be asking themselves, is why on earth are they still doing this if they haven't yet tried using a binoviewer with 'low cost end' orthoscopic or anything eyepieces for that matter. 

Using a binoviewer or not using a binoviewer  on the Moon and planets will make a vastly bigger difference in the views obtained than the difference between using this ortho or that ortho or any other eyepieces you choose to use in your binoviewer. 

 

 

 

I have owned a used several types of binoviewers and currently have a set of the William Optics ones on loan from FLO. I just don't enjoy using them as much as I do observing though a single eyepiece. I can merge the images but I don't see any benefits over mono mode either for DSO's or solar system targets and I have tried with several different types of scopes including my OO 12 inch dob and my TMB/LZOS 130 F/9 triplet which is desgned to be binoviewer friendly. I will try the WO binoviewers for white light solar viewing sometime soon - thats something I've yet to do with them.

Sorry that I can't join the binoviewer fan club yet - I have tried, honestly ! :smiley:

 

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