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Grant

What's EEVA?!?

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I just read through the whole thread here and wanted to sign up to give my own take on NV astronomy. Been posting about NV Astronomy for a few years now over on CN. Since the days when it was still just the Video Astronomy forum all before the EAA letters came into it and it was a sub forum of Equipment discussions.

 

Davy a few posts up was kind enough to create a whole section on VAF for me to fill up with information on NV Astronomy. I’ve invited folks over a bunch of times but it remains pretty stagnant since 2015 when I filled up a bunch of threads with info. Davy and Ken and the rest of the guys there are more than welcoming though, so I continue discussions on scopes and observing and all that. The EAA section at CN used to be real friendly to us NV Astronimers too, but lately learned some have left because they are tired of “NV” posts. Regular observing forums have gotten more friendly and admins have no issues with posts in Deep Sky, but some members still do as well as trying to suggest NV as an option in Beginners forum being still frowned upon over traditional “get a big reflector” advice or if you are going to be viewing in red/white zones you’ll see “get to dark skies or be limited to planetary, some globs and open clusters, and lunar and only the very brightest nebula”.

 

I'm in red/white zone (Bortle 7) and particularly lazy so NV was my choice to see more without having to pack up stuff and drive to dark skies.

I don’t know what the solution is overall, but can tell you that having dedicated sections on sites with less traffic won’t get much attention to posting or attracting members or more importantly, changing minds about NV being a valid observation tool. I think CN is saturated enough to get its own forum, particularly if we are making the camera EAA guys up and leave, but on the whole and particularly after a concerted effort to organize “Best of NV” threads to make them easy to find, I would hope it went back to camera and NV EAA users coexisting peacefully and joining each other’s discussions. I jump in camera EAA discussions still and used to more because I just picked up the process being used by reading the threads and getting familiar with some of the tech. We are all just trying to see more in various ways whether live with NV or near real-time with a camera. I still use my regular eyepieces frequently too. I like planetary still and NV is no good on bright objects like lunar and planetary.

what I’ve seen though, and it’s natural to want to do this, is that members that just grab on to EAA camera or EAA NV, get pretty excited about seeing things they never thought possible previously without getting huge telescopes or requiring the darkest skies and they want to “shout it from the rooftops” to others or be able to suggest it as an alternative to “get a bigger scope and drive to darker skies” and traditional method astronomy practitioners see it as “bragging”.

It doesn’t matter if the same behavior happens when they themselves upgrade to larger scopes or dominate the Deep Sky forums because they have giant dobs. That of course is not “bragging”. It’s a double standard that persists to this day on most forums. 

I don’t know how to solve it, but I rarely post in Deep Sky anymore. I stick to EAA forum or sites like VAF where it wouldn’t matter because we call everything Video Astronomy over there pretty much, even if the term doesn’t specifically fit the tech.

I continue to make small mentions of NV equipment where I deem it appropriate and not dominating my suggestions. I mix it up with traditional equipment suggestions and NV suggestions and (because I chose to participate in camera EAA threads so much) some camera EAA suggestions. If someone has a tracking scope and limited budget that falls short of the more expensive NV offerings, I suggest EAA with a camera.

I don’t even use tracking mounts myself but I know that that is a pretty easy switch for a lot of folks that already have a tracking mount and want to start on a budget in EAA. Used NV or older, but capable devices is viable too.

I guess the point is that I’d like to see all forms start being inclusionary of each other’s observations but let’s all be aware of practicality of other posters budgets, experience, and attitudes and maybe no desire to try EAA as well. It doesn’t have to be for everyone, but if someone is interested then providing information is essential. No visibility of it because it gets relegated to subforums way down the list of visible forums when you log in a site, is not the best way to make it known that there is another method available.

 

Anyway - I’ve technically stopped lurking this forum now which I’ve done for years on occasion and wanted to put in my thoughts on your new designation and split to include an observing section. Great job on trying to include everyone. Hard to please everyone and particularly with new methods. I’ve seen a lot drop out of EAA on CN and that includes NV users. We are still only a large handful. Some don’t want to post in a special section and I just find them in Observing forums. As long as the admins there continue to enforce inclusivity, we are good.

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7 hours ago, Vondragonnoggin said:

We are all just trying to see more in various ways whether live with NV or near real-time with a camera. I still use my regular eyepieces frequently too.

 

7 hours ago, Vondragonnoggin said:

that members that just grab on to EAA camera or EAA NV, get pretty excited about seeing things they never thought possible previously without getting huge telescopes or requiring the darkest skies and they want to “shout it from the rooftops” to others or be able to suggest it as an alternative to “get a bigger scope and drive to darker skies” and traditional method astronomy practitioners see it as “bragging”. 

Couldn't have said it better, you 've just nailed it!

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Yeah great post Von..

Due to wanting to understand more on NV Astronomy and to increase awareness I've purchased an old gen 1 cascade tube and with tips and pointers from Von,, I hope to try it myself.

No way can I afford the latest gear and I know the kit I will be using is old school and donkeys old,, but it's worth a go..

I'm going to 3d print bits n bods to make up a useable set up..I will be honest I want to do it with a camera and hope to use a watec 902h ,, most oldies will know this as a very sensitive camera,

Hopefully it will work it's self out,,and a bit of Vons help 😂

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I got back into astronomy about 6 months ago after giving up in the 70's and 80's with a wobbly scope, not knowing what to look at  and not seeing anything anyway when I did try to look..
Strangely my interest was re-awaked after taking a photo of the sky one night with a small Sony zoom  camera (HX90) and capturing a grainy image of M31 from the back garden. I couldn't see it through my old binos at the time. A few nights later I tried the double cluster In Perseus and captured that again.
After that I bought a second hand scope and an out of fashion DSLR and you can probably guess the rest.
My preference is to actually see things myself although what I have discovered is that  quite often the camera is much more sensitive than my eyes in picking up fainter objects from the garden and enables me to visualise objects that I just cant see with my eyes (other than to pack the car and drive for an hour away from west London).

Whilst I have taken a few picture sets and spent hours stacking them and then refining them in various photo editors, I would rather be out under the stars.
I was recently thrilled to 'see' the Owl Nebula on the laptop screen after a couple of minutes live stacking. Something that was just invisible in the scope.

I suppose the conclusion of my waffle here is to say the EEVA, or whatever anyone wants to call it, has helped me regain an interest in an old hobby of mine, actually  find things and be able to either see them with my eye ball or enhance my experience by developing a more detailed image there and then on the laptop.

I have a little GPcam that rides piggy back with a telephoto  lens and is available toi me should I feel the need.  Or, sometimes I just use the small screen on the back of the DSLR after  a longer single exposure.

Pleased to b here.
 

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