TS ONTC vs Lacerta

[Northernlight]

Hi All,

I'm  looking to buy a new quality 10" Newtonian, and I'm considering the TS ONTC and Lacerta Photo Newtonian models, but there isn't much information on either. Anyone have any views on the 2 brands / models 

Cheers,

Rich.

[iPeace]

I had TS assemble one of their UNC models for me, a 8" f/6, customized with my favourite focuser and optimized for visual observing. Excellent build quality and performance.

[Northernlight]

I looked at the cheaper UNC model but read that the primary mirror cell wasn't very good. Do you use the scope for visual or imaging  ??

Don't want to buy cheaper quality and regret it.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Northernlight

[iPeace]

34 minutes ago, Northernlight said:

I looked at the cheaper UNC model but read that the primary mirror cell wasn't very good. Do you use the scope for visual or imaging  ??

Don't want to buy cheaper quality and regret it.

 

For my own purposes, strictly visual, it does very well indeed, holds collimation.

I'm not suggesting you choose the UNC, just wanted to share my positive thoughts on it, along the lines of TS being able to put a good scope together for you.

[Jkulin]

I was about to hit the button on buying a Lacerta as they are beautiful pieces of kit, but you do need to ensure you go for the 3" focuser and corrector to get the best out of it, I only stopped when I realised that it was going to be outside of my budget and then Peter Shah launched an optical range at www.656imaging.co.uk and his Newtownians are coming it at a rather good price, so I am holding back to get my shekels together to get one of his 12" Models.

[Astroscot2]

I had a look at the N series Newtonians on Peters site, they look to be the same as the Orion CT range ?  I own a CT10, optically very good but I had to strengthen the tube for imaging,  tubes are very thin, anything heavy on the focuser flexed the tube.

Mark

[Jkulin]

11 minutes ago, Astroscot2 said:

I had a look at the N series Newtonians on Peters site, they look to be the same as the Orion CT range ?  I own a CT10, optically very good but I had to strengthen the tube for imaging,  tubes are very thin, anything heavy on the focuser flexed the tube.

Mark

I mentioned this to Peter, he grabbed that image as an example as he does a load of dev work for Orion, his will be custom designed to your spec, thus why he has no photos yet.

[Northernlight]

Just had a look at those scopes and they look exactly like a CT10, the mirror configuration is the same and I'm pretty sure that the price is identical to the CT10.

As my grandfather used to say : if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's a duck.

[Jkulin]

1 hour ago, Northernlight said:

Just had a look at those scopes and they look exactly like a CT10, the mirror configuration is the same and I'm pretty sure that the price is identical to the CT10.

As my grandfather used to say : if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's a duck.

I assume you didn't read my post then?...

2 hours ago, Jkulin said:

...his will be custom designed to your spec, thus why he has no photos yet.

 

[Northernlight]

Sorry missed your comment about home not having any photos. I understand  that the scopes are custom, but surely he must have photos of previously built N series scopes, or is it a case that he has never yet built a N series scope ?

That said, I've not heard of this guy before , so not going to risk 2k of my money on an scope builder I've never heard of before.

Rich.

[Astroscot2]

Rich, If I was in the market for a new scope I would buy from Peter without any hesitation, Peter is well known in the Astronomy community, takes wonderful astro images and no doubt knows a bit about astrographs.

 

Mark

[wimvb]

17 hours ago, Northernlight said:

Hi All,

I'm  looking to buy a new quality 10" Newtonian, and I'm considering the TS ONTC and Lacerta Photo Newtonian models, but there isn't much information on either. Anyone have any views on the 2 brands / models 

Cheers,

Rich.

For an upgrade from a sw 150pds, I considered both these scopes. It seems that they are very similar, but with the Lacerta there is a choice of different mirrors. The thing that appealed to me was the choice of a quartz mirror with less thermal expansion than bk glass. The scopes also have different focusers.

Both Jens Zippel (who's a member here) and Tommy Nawratil use the Lacerta. Both produce stunning images. Just have a look on astrobin.

[Jkulin]

1 hour ago, Northernlight said:

Sorry missed your comment about home not having any photos. I understand  that the scopes are custom, but surely he must have photos of previously built N series scopes, or is it a case that he has never yet built a N series scope ?

That said, I've not heard of this guy before , so not going to risk 2k of my money on an scope builder I've never heard of before.

Rich.

No Probs Rich,

Peter is world renown for his skills in Astrophotography, Orion use him when they need a scope troubleshooting or setting up, I've just got off the phone to him as he is currently in Spain setting a complete armoury at Remote Scopes at E-Eye, this is his 3rd trip in as many weeks setting up I think it was 9 systems, here's a pic he sent me the other day from Spain: -

I wrote Peters Powerpoint presentation for the PAS show and here was just a few of the magazines he was published in: -

Peter has been plagued with requests for Newtownians, so he has launched a range based on his skill set and knowledge, I've mentioned to him about photos but between travelling to Spain regularly and with the launch of his business he's just plain run out of time.

I hope that explains a little, he's a bit of a specialist, oh and a good mate as well ?

[Northernlight]

Thanks for the explanation. It does sound like he knows what he's doing, but if he's setting up a new business, it could take a very long time to get a scope made. I'm also not keen on being a beta tester unless their was some financial incentive, e.g. Reduced price for early adopters.

[Astrobug]

You have 2 more options:

Skyvision.fr started a new range of newton scopes (8 & 10 inch).  I think the mirrors are coming from Frank Griere (mirro sphere).

Jtwastronomy is also selling newtons but I did not see any of them.

 

[Northernlight]

Thanks Astrobug, but it looks like that French site only does entry level steel tube newts.

I've messaged peter at 656imaging to see what he can offer, as there is no real detail on his website, I.e what focuser he uses, how thick the carbon tube is etc. Also noted that he uses Pyrex mirrors which is a bit disappointing given the £2000 price point. For that price range I would expect  quartz  mirror substrates, but I'll wait and see what he comes back with.

[Astrobug]

 They have some high end scopes also. But somewhere elke on the website.

[Northernlight]

Yeah just found them, and they want between 4500-6500 euros, for a 10" newt. think I'll pass on those then lol 

Edited March 16, 2019 by Northernlight

[Astrobug]

Premium price

[Northernlight]

Don't  think I would ever pay over £2500 (€2900) for a Newtonian.

[Astroscot2]

A Newtonian which is well made mechanically and with premium optics will cost, buying cheap you will end up fixing problems costing more in the long run, I've been there, for astrophotography there are so many parts on a Newtonian that flex or need precise adjustment to get the best out of it. When it comes to newtonians I firmly believe you get what you pay for.

Mark

[Northernlight]

Hi Mark, I see you have a CT10. I looked at those but read a few reports about the focuser not being great and that the tube was not thick enough and flexed around the focuser so ruled it out.

Nearly bought one secondhand but the seller was a bit funny to deal with a refused to accept PayPal as the payment method, and started acting a bit odd when I said I wasn't willing to do a direct bank transfer.

I like like the looks of the Lacerta newts, but they are asking premium price, yet the primary mirror cell is the same stock low quality SW/GSO one used on the SW Quattro and I believe it's also the same secondary too, and seeing a scope is only as good as it's weakest part. I do however like the Quartz mirror option.

The ONTC model has a superb 7mm thick tube, a really good primary  & secondary mirror cells and they install whatever focuser you want, however I noticed they are using  Pyrex mirrors on the F4.7 model, and seem to only do quartz mirrors in their F4 configurations.

Both workout  pretty much the same price, so I am torn. 

Edited March 17, 2019 by Northernlight

[Astrobug]

Good mirrors are not cheap.  It is all hand crafted. 

If you go for the ONCT from TS, ask for a spider upgrade. They have 2nd mirror holder with a push/pull system.

They are much better in keeping the collimation. It will increase the price but you will not regret it later on.

I miss one important feature on all these scopes, none of them cover the edge of the mirror.

 

[Northernlight]

I know Lacerta flock the scopes, and blacken the edges of the primary and secondary. They also mask off a tiny bit of the primary mirror to reduce halo / diffraction effects from the main mirror clips.

[Astroscot2]

With my CT10 I had to add longer dovetails top and bottom of the rings, added an internal carbon fibre ring at the focuser end to strengthen the tube, new focuser to handle weight of the corrector, camera, OAG, and replaced the spider which was twisted and i could not fix flocked the tube also. An additional £1000 to make my CT10 usable, when you see the image train you will see the importance of a well fixed focuser

 Mark