Buying second-hand

[Cosmic Geoff]

Buying second-hand is often discussed here, but usually with reference to specific bits of kit.

I don't want to be prescriptive, just set out some points for consideration.

Large savings are possible. Amateur astronomers generally take good care of their kit, so you should at least get something that's almost as good as new for 2/3 the RRP.  In some cases, eg in the case of expensive slow-moving items, you may do even better, and get a good as new item for half the RRP and have a box-full of valuable accessories thrown in.

It does usually require a bit more work than clicking on a link on a dealer's site and having it delivered.

Due diligence: if you buy through ebay and pay by paypal there is some buyer protection, but if you deal directly with a private seller, there isn't.

You should view the item and assess its condition before committing yourself to pay.

Due diligence again - if you pay by bank transfer you can't undo it and get the money back, and if your finger slips and you send it to the wrong account, you are even less likely to recover your money. There is no feed back except that the name of the receiving bank may appear at some point.

With Paypal you have some protection, and it's a lot simpler than wading through online bank security, but some sellers may ask for 'friends and family' which has no fees, in which case you are not covered.

You may find that sellers, very reasonably, will not accept a cheque unless you allow time for it to clear.  So you have to trust them to hand over the goods after this time.

It is possible to make an electronic funds transfer actually at the seller's premises, either by electronic bank transfer or by Paypal.  This is likely to involve using the seller's wifi, which gives rise to trust issues (but hopefully no more than at a hotel, internet café etc).  You may need a mobile phone (and signal) at the seller's premises in order to receive a OTP code (your bank software may register that this is a new recipient and/or your laptop has changed location).

If you want to pay cash (which could give rise to security issues) withdrawing up to £500 from an ATM should not be a problem, but larger amounts may need a trip to your bank.

Discuss?

[Space Hopper]

Well, i've brought plenty of stuff second hand (including sales and purchases on here and on UKABS) and never had any problems transaction wise.

I like the fact that 99% of us on here are honest, fair, genuine people, who as you say, look after their gear generally very well.

Theres always that 1% though......

 

[Paz]

This is a difficult area. I've bought loads second hand and have never had a problem of any description on SGL, but that doesn't mean that problems are not possible. For more expensive items I talk to the buyer and if they know what they are talking about then I'm happy. 

I've had only one thing arrive not as described (on ABS) but that was cosmetic issues not functional issues.

I think you can become familiar with others online through the forum and end up happy to (up to a point) trust someone you have never met, but I don't think this is naive as I don't think anyone dodgy is going to have a history of for example posting insightful observing reports etc.

[Carbon Brush]

Excellent advice from Geoff.

Tubby bear's comments reflect my experience.

Most of my kit is secondhand. I regard SGL classified as the most trusted place in the UK to find astro kit.
It is easy to 'check out' a seller by looking at their post history, comments, etc.

A second choice is UKABS.
The absence of moderators means that there are resellers on there posing as individual sellers.
The same people jump at the chance to buy from you - at their price.
Archived adverts cannot be viewed.
Having said that a lot of the individual sellers do show their SGL name if you look at their profile.

 

 

[Gina]

I too have bought lots of stuff secondhand here, UKABS, ebay using PayPal and so far no problem.

[RT65CB-SWL]

As per @Gina. 

The ones I tend to avoid are those where English is not the sellers first language on other sites. Soon as I mention that I am on SGL and they will either reply... or get sucked into some gigantic blackhole if they are not.

[Demonperformer]

The golden rule of any second-hand purchase is caveat emptor - let the buyer beware.

I have made a few bad purchases - including, regrettably, from members on here (some quite respected!) but most of these are fairly low value and I just note who it is and make sure I never make the mistake of buying from that person again.

The one and only time I accepted payment for a sale via paypal, the buyer paid but paypal refused to release the money to me. Never again. I am very rarely in a desperate rush to sell things, so if someone will only pay by paypal, I am happy to have them go somewhere else and to wait for the next purchaser.

[carastro]

My experience has on the whole been very good too.  I generally try SGL in the first instance for both buying and selling, and then if no luck I move onto UKABS where there is a larger "audience".  

I don't post abroad as I like to send all my items over £50 by a tracked, signed for and insured method and my experience is that once goods have left the UK it is impossible to track them. 

I prefer to buy from people on astro forums who have a reputation to maintain, but on the one occasion I bought from some-one I had no "history" of, he refused to accept Paypal and wanted the money paid directly into his bank account.  Since the item was over £900 I refused to do this and in the end we met halfway and I paid him by telephone banking on the spot having already set up his account details by paying him £1 before I went. 

I very rarely buy astro items on Ebay, unless it is from a dealer I know.  

You get some people trying their luck in trying to knock you down, but I'd rather not sell an item than let it go for under it's value.

Carole 

 

[Stu]

On 12/03/2019 at 13:56, Carbon Brush said:

Archived adverts cannot be viewed.

Actually archived ads can be viewed but contact details and price info is removed. Quite often the price is mentioned in the description though.

Some people refuse to do PayPal but will use a bank transfer. I do understand that as a seller there is always a risk that the buyer will raise a false dispute and then you get a refund automatically raised against you. That does happen, so all the due diligence is well worth it regardless of the payment methods used. I normally ask people to pay the PayPal fees so if they want the protection I still get the amount I am asking. If they know me then friends and family saves that cost. A bank transfer has no protection at all though, so worth being sure! These days it is so easy to do an instant transfer from a phone or tablet that for high value goods, collection and payment there and then is the safest way for both parties.

I have bought and sold hundreds of items of both high and low value. I've had a 12" f6 newt shipped down from Scotland, bought a lovely TV85 from Europe and had nothing more than a few annoyances happen, nothing major. The worst thing was when I put a wanted ad on ABS and nearly got scammed by someone. These seem to be quite high risk transactions because the temptation to proceed with an unknown seller who has something you really want is very high!

There does seem to be more downward pressure on pricing at the moment, which probably reflects the economy and also the growing base of astronomy with people more used to buying from eBay.

 

[michaelmorris]

I would be highly unlikely to be buy any high value secondhand item without inspection.  For all but trivial secondhand purchases I will only buy using Paypal (not friends and family).

Saying that, I've never really had any problems buying secondhand gear on SGL or UKAB&S.  I would be unlikely to buy from aboard as it's so potentailly difficult and/or costly to do anything should the item don't turn up, are not as described, or are faulty.

[Oldfort]

I only sell high value items for cash, which has led to some interesting meet ups.  My favourite was in a Tesco car park near Ashford (Kent), which is about 70 miles from where I live.  My wife came along as my minder.  The buyer had come over on the ferry from France and was on his way to meet a friend over here.  He took a cursory look at the goods, and then gave me an envelope containing a lot of brand new £50 notes.  We shook hands and went our respective ways.

[bf79]

Pretty much all of my astronomy equipment has been bought second hand, because quite simply I couldnt afford to buy the kit I wanted brand new. 

My scope (Celestron Nexstar 6se) i got on a good deal I found on Gumtree, and Ive bought a few accessories from the classifieds on here. 

The second hand market allows access to a higher standard of equipment that you might not be able to otherwise afford, and as long as you use common sense and trust your instincts a bit, then there are bargains to be had out there

[Jkulin]

I work on the basis that at some time or other I am going to get conned, but the savings outweigh the risk.

If they are expensive items then I ask for proof of address, if minor then I validate where I can.

If I am selling then I will take PayPal F&F but not with the main option even with the fees paid. I always send by Royal Mail Special Delivery as proof of the dispatch, or Bank transfer or cash on collection , but only as a last resort as it is a pain to get to the bank and pay cash in.

I regularly buy of fleabay or AB&S

If people need verification from me then I give them my eBay user name and they can check me out, or if they want a copy of my drivers licence, then I will remove the number and let them have a copy.

[Ben the Ignorant]

I'm probably not typical but I NEVER bought astro gear used, and never will. The ONLY reason is I like my things brand new, and I research them so hard I buy once, usually when there is a price reduction that I'm always hunting for. I have sold eyepieces of outdated technology but buying used is just not in my mindset.

Out of my fifteen guitars I have bought one that was an immediate customer return to the brick-and-mortar store, so it was not more used than other guitars on display that anybody can put their hands on. The only one (electric) I bought really used was because of an exceptional resonant wood that couldn't be left to unaware players.

But astro gear materials are not inconsistent like nature-made materials so I buy that new only. And while I might sell accessories, I will NEVER sell a telescope, especially with all the personal mods I made.

[LukeSkywatcher]

Anything that I've bought second hand from SGL members really was as new.

I've had no problems what so ever with transactions.

[Alkaid]

The last item I bought...I couldn’t meet the seller for a couple of weeks, so I ‘secured’ the item with a small deposit via PayPal (logic being that I definitely wanted the item and wanted to show the seller that I was serious, but if I got scammed then I could write that off). Needless to say it all went smoothly and I met the seller a few weeks later, paying the balance in cash.  

Despite lots of deals over the years, I’ve never had a problem with any SGL user and all items had been very well looked after. It’s true - we treat our kit well.