Re-discovered visual astro, need eyepiece advice

[Bobby1970]

Having recently re discovered the joys of visual rather than just imaging, I had a look at what eyepieces I have. 

They are as follows:-

 

32mm Revelation astro (used for the widest view in my Mak)

25mm Skywatcher (the one they give you with an 8" dob). 

12mm Revelation astro

9mm Celestron Xcel LX

6mm TMB planetary II

Seben 8-24mm Zoom 

Celestron Omni barlow

So, where should I spend £50-70 (maximum), on eyepiece/eyepiece replacement?

Personally I would say the Celestron 9mm was the best of this bunch. Perhaps replace the SW 25mm with a Celestron Xcel equivalent? 

Scopes used are :- Altair 72mm Semi Apo refractor, Skywatcher 127mm Mak and my new addition, a Skywatcher 250 Dob. 

I also wear specs. 

 

 

 

 

[AlexK]

I'd rather invest into some premium 100 deg AFOV EP. The joy is totally worth the 10x price tag. I have reworked a lot of DSOs with my z12 after purchasing the Ethos17 and WO9 as it's like peering through a starship's window vs a keyhole.

[Bobby1970]

18 minutes ago, AlexK said:

I'd rather invest into some premium 100 deg AFOV EP. The joy is totally worth the 10x price tag. I have reworked a lot of DSOs with my z12 after purchasing the Ethos17 and WO9 as it's like peering through a starship's window vs a keyhole.

All very good if I had "10x price tag" pockets. 

I would love a Ferrari to be honest but I have Skoda affordability. Lol

?

[Shaun_the_Sheep]

1 hour ago, AlexK said:

I'd rather invest into some premium 100 deg AFOV EP. The joy is totally worth the 10x price tag. I have reworked a lot of DSOs with my z12 after purchasing the Ethos17 and WO9 as it's like peering through a starship's window vs a keyhole.

Do the Ethos give good sharpness to the edge of field?  What has been the most memorable target you've observed with the Ethos. 

 

[Louis D]

I'd look to get a 2" eyepiece in the 30mm to 34mm range for the Dob to vastly increase the field of view in that scope.

[AlexK]

57 minutes ago, Shaun_the_Sheep said:

Do the Ethos give good sharpness to the edge of field?  What has been the most memorable target you've observed with the Ethos. 

With my 1:5 it's definitely starting to show coma on the edge. So many are using a Paracorr type device to fix that. But that doesn't bug me at all as for DSO observing I'm using the peripheral vision for the full field view, while driving details closer to the center of the AFOV for clarity, which is perfectly corrected.

The best target for me is definitely the Americas (NGC7000). I can float between its bright and dark micro-clouds and streams for hours (with the UHC and without)!

[Shaun_the_Sheep]

34 minutes ago, AlexK said:

The best target for me is definitely the Americas (NGC7000).

On my list. Apparently can be seen with Bino's from a dark site. Will try my 15x70's on it. Cheers. 

[AlexK]

1 hour ago, Shaun_the_Sheep said:

On my list. Apparently can be seen with Bino's from a dark site. Will try my 15x70's on it. Cheers. 

Yep, you can see it even naked-eye. But at the high zoom there are a lot of fine details visible in the "Cygnus Wall" it's starting. A 100 deg AFOV is showing it much more dramatically compared to a narrow EP view.

[John]

The Ethos eyepieces (I have 4 of them) are really well corrected for astigmatism even with fast scopes but do show some coma towards the field edges in fast newtonians. Thats the newtonian optics rather than the eyepiece optics producing the coma though. With the Ethos and other well corrected ultra and hyper wide eyepieces a coma corrector is worthwhile when using them in newtonians of F/5 or faster (eg: the OP's 10 inch dob).

The views can be amazing but then the purchase cost is as well and well outside the OP's stated budget.

I agree with LouisD's recommendation - try and get a used (to get better value) 30mm-ish 2 inch format eyepiece for low power / wide angle views.

 

[mikeDnight]

14 hours ago, Bobby1970 said:

Having recently re discovered the joys of visual rather than just imaging, I had a look at what eyepieces I have. 

They are as follows:-

 

32mm Revelation astro (used for the widest view in my Mak)

25mm Skywatcher (the one they give you with an 8" dob). 

12mm Revelation astro

9mm Celestron Xcel LX

6mm TMB planetary II

Seben 8-24mm Zoom 

Celestron Omni barlow

So, where should I spend £50-70 (maximum), on eyepiece/eyepiece replacement?

Personally I would say the Celestron 9mm was the best of this bunch. Perhaps replace the SW 25mm with a Celestron Xcel equivalent? 

Scopes used are :- Altair 72mm Semi Apo refractor, Skywatcher 127mm Mak and my new addition, a Skywatcher 250 Dob. 

I also wear specs. 

 

 

 

 

Save your money and buy a 17.5mm Morpheus. You won't regret it! 

At the end of each day, throw whatever change you have into a vase or something, even notes if you can, and start afresh the day after. Keep doing that and you'll soon have enough to buy a great eyepiece.  Savings build up faster than you may imagine that way. But if you leave the change in your pocket, you'll spend it on penny sweets or something.

[Shaun_the_Sheep]

23 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

you'll spend it on penny sweets or something.

Or Beer

 

[pregulla]

I think you have pretty nice eyepiece coverage and £70 won't change much. Just observe with what you have until you feel you need a specific improvement. If you spend the money just because you have it chances are you won't get the improvement where you really need it.

[Bobby1970]

13 minutes ago, pregulla said:

I think you have pretty nice eyepiece coverage and £70 won't change much. Just observe with what you have until you feel you need a specific improvement. If you spend the money just because you have it chances are you won't get the improvement where you really need it.

I think this is the conclusion I have come to. 

Will keep my eye out/save towards a good 30mm eyepiece primarily for use in the dob. 

Looks like £100 ish would get me something that would be more than good enough.  

 

Cheers guys. 

[paulastro]

2 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

Save your money and buy a 17.5mm Morpheus. You won't regret it! 

At the end of each day, throw whatever change you have into a vase or something, even notes if you can, and start afresh the day after. Keep doing that and you'll soon have enough to buy a great eyepiece.  Savings build up faster than you may imagine that way. But if you leave the change in your pocket, you'll spend it on penny sweets or something.

Top answer Mike, and I'm not biased at all - but it is the best eyepiece in the world for spec users.  The only one I'm aware of with a field of over 70 degrees (the Morpheus is 76 degrees) with which you can genuinely see the whole field with specs on,  and excellent edge quality down to low f ratios.  It barlows up very nicely too.

[F15Rules]

17 hours ago, Bobby1970 said:

Having recently re discovered the joys of visual rather than just imaging, I had a look at what eyepieces I have. 

They are as follows:-

 

32mm Revelation astro (used for the widest view in my Mak)

25mm Skywatcher (the one they give you with an 8" dob). 

12mm Revelation astro

9mm Celestron Xcel LX

6mm TMB planetary II

Seben 8-24mm Zoom 

Celestron Omni barlow

So, where should I spend £50-70 (maximum), on eyepiece/eyepiece replacement?

Personally I would say the Celestron 9mm was the best of this bunch. Perhaps replace the SW 25mm with a Celestron Xcel equivalent? 

Scopes used are :- Altair 72mm Semi Apo refractor, Skywatcher 127mm Mak and my new addition, a Skywatcher 250 Dob. 

I also wear specs. 

 

 

 

 

You have 3 scopes , 6 eyepieces (5 fixed and 1 zoom), and a x2 Barlow..

Honestly, I would sell one of the scopes first. The Altair and 10" DOB will, I'm guessing have 2" focusers? Not sure about the Mak, maybe just 1.25"?

The Mak will never be a wide field scope, the others more so.

If you prefer wider fields and DSOs etc, I'd sell the Mak..But if you prefer lunar, planetary and double stars I'd keep the Mak and sell the Altair or the DOB (probably the Altair).

Any of your 3 scopes should fetch enough for one or two really good used eyepieces..building on what has been said before, I'd look for a used Morpheus in 17.5mm (or  12.5 or 14mm), all excellent but the 17.5mm is the best IMHO, and an Aero (or equivalent clone) 30mm SWA 68-69 degree (it's a 2" so make sure whichever scopes you keep can take 2" eyepieces).

Personally I would also sell the Seben zoom, the 25mm Skywatcher, the 12mm Revelation and the 32mm Revelation..They could bring you in another £50+ and you could buy a other Celestron Xcel LX for higher power, say a 5mm.

The Omni Barlow isn't at all bad (I have one), and for what you would get for it I'd keep it for now. On very good nights you could pop your 9mm and new 5mm Xcel lxs in it on the moon and doubles.

So, potentially, you lose one scope, sell the above eyepieces and go for something like this:

5mm Celestron XCel LX

6mm TMB planetary (if this is a genuine TMB it should be excellent)

9mm Celestron XCel LX

12mm, OR 14mm, OR 17.5mm Morpheus 76 degrees

30nm Aero SWA 68 degrees

Omni Barlow x2 for use with any of the above, conditions permitting.

HTH, and good luck with whatever you decide?.

Dave

[Bobby1970]

37 minutes ago, F15Rules said:

You have 3 scopes , 6 eyepieces (5 fixed and 1 zoom), and a x2 Barlow..

Honestly, I would sell one of the scopes first. The Altair and 10" DOB will, I'm guessing have 2" focusers? Not sure about the Mak, maybe just 1.25"?

The Mak will never be a wide field scope, the others more so.

If you prefer wider fields and DSOs etc, I'd sell the Mak..But if you prefer lunar, planetary and double stars I'd keep the Mak and sell the Altair or the DOB (probably the Altair).

Any of your 3 scopes should fetch enough for one or two really good used eyepieces..building on what has been said before, I'd look for a used Morpheus in 17.5mm (or  12.5 or 14mm), all excellent but the 17.5mm is the best IMHO, and an Aero (or equivalent clone) 30mm SWA 68-69 degree (it's a 2" so make sure whichever scopes you keep can take 2" eyepieces).

Personally I would also sell the Seben zoom, the 25mm Skywatcher, the 12mm Revelation and the 32mm Revelation..They could bring you in another £50+ and you could buy a other Celestron Xcel LX for higher power, say a 5mm.

The Omni Barlow isn't at all bad (I have one), and for what you would get for it I'd keep it for now. On very good nights you could pop your 9mm and new 5mm Xcel lxs in it on the moon and doubles.

So, potentially, you lose one scope, sell the above eyepieces and go for something like this:

5mm Celestron XCel LX

6mm TMB planetary (if this is a genuine TMB it should be excellent)

9mm Celestron XCel LX

12mm, OR 14mm, OR 17.5mm Morpheus 76 degrees

30nm Aero SWA 68 degrees

Omni Barlow x2 for use with any of the above, conditions permitting.

HTH, and good luck with whatever you decide?.

Dave

All good info and thanks for spelling it out so concisely. 

However, I wouldn't want to part with any of the scopes I have really as they all suit a particular interest. 

Small semi apo for wide field or imahing DSO etc. 

Mak  for imaging moon and planets. 

And the Dob for purely visual. 

The seben has been my most used eyepiece recently due to convenience and perhaps only being used during setting up for some imaging. And it's not actually too bad I feel.  

My gut feeling is and always was to replace the 25mm Skywatcher ep with something better to use in the dob as a low power "finder eyepiece'  and it seems like there's options for around £100 maybe. 

This is probably the path I will chose. 

So, a 30mm,  2 inch,  70 degree eyepiece which will work in a fast reflector (the dob) is what I need. I think. 

 

Thanks again. 

 

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

2 hours ago, paulastro said:

Top answer Mike, and I'm not biased at all - but it is the best eyepiece in the world for spec users.  The only one I'm aware of with a field of over 70 degrees (the Morpheus is 76 degrees) with which you can genuinely see the whole field with specs on,  and excellent edge quality down to low f ratios.  It barlows up very nicely too.

Actually, my Nagler T4s (12, 17 and 22mm) and the Nagler 26T5 (used at Olly Penrice's place) and my 31T5 ("Panzerfaust") are certainly suitable for those with glasses, and I can see the field stop with my glasses, but they are rather more expensive. My Pentax  XW 5, 7, and 10 mm and both the Delos 6 and 14mm are outstanding for those with glasses as well. I only had the 14mm Morpheus, and decided to sell it for a Delos 14mm, because I didn't quite get along with the Morpheus (slightly less sharp at the edges, slightly out-of-focus field stop). The 14mm is apparently the weakest one in the series.

[paulastro]

2 minutes ago, michael.h.f.wilkinson said:

Actually, my Nagler T4s (12, 17 and 22mm) and the Nagler 26T5 (used at Olly Penrice's place) and my 31T5 ("Panzerfaust") are certainly suitable for those with glasses, and I can see the field stop with my glasses, but they are rather more expensive. My Pentax  XW 5, 7, and 10 mm and both the Delos 6 and 14mm are outstanding for those with glasses as well. I only had the 14mm Morpheus, and decided to sell it for a Delos 14mm, because I didn't quite get along with the Morpheus (slightly less sharp at the edges, slightly out-of-focus field stop). The 14mm is apparently the weakest one in the series.

Thanks for your comments Michael.  I can't say I've used all the Naglers you mention, but any I have  used I've not been able to see the whole field stop without turning my head which defeat

[mikeDnight]

10 minutes ago, michael.h.f.wilkinson said:

Actually, my Nagler T4s (12, 17 and 22mm) and the Nagler 26T5 (used at Olly Penrice's place) and my 31T5 ("Panzerfaust") are certainly suitable for those with glasses, and I can see the field stop with my glasses, but they are rather more expensive. My Pentax  XW 5, 7, and 10 mm and both the Delos 6 and 14mm are outstanding for those with glasses as well. I only had the 14mm Morpheus, and decided to sell it for a Delos 14mm, because I didn't quite get along with the Morpheus (slightly less sharp at the edges, slightly out-of-focus field stop). The 14mm is apparently the weakest one in the series.

I also heard the 14mm Morpheus is the weakest of the bunch. I've owned all the XW's and found it was the 14mm that was my least favourite. It had the worst edge correction of the bunch, but having said that, it was still a very very good eyepiece.  I love the XW's!

[Shaun_the_Sheep]

7 minutes ago, paulastro said:

Panzerfaust

Love it !!! Boom !!!

'Tank Fist'. I love the German language, beautifully descriptive. 

Danke. 

 

[paulastro]

Ooops, pressed the send button without finishing!  ....which defeats the object.  Of course we have different eyes and glasses so you could well be right.   I'm fine with the XWs, but of course they are only 70 degrees field.  One the edge with the telescopes I use the edge stars in the 17.5 Morpheus are fine, using my SW 72ED and Astro-Tech 102ED.  For me though, the Morpheus 17.5 is way better for my eyesight and glasses than any eyepiece I've ever tried and with a 76 degree field, but of course individual differences play a big part.  Thanks again.

[paulastro]

4 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

I also heard the 14mm Morpheus is the weakest of the bunch. I've owned all the XW's and found it was the 14mm that was my least favourite. It had the worst edge correction of the bunch, but having said that, it was still a very very good eyepiece.  I love the XW's!

Yes, Bill Paolini's review of the shorter focal length Morpheus eyepieces says this, if I remember it's on the pages of SGL somewhere, as is his review of the 17.5.  Both excellent reviews.  I'd love to try the shorter focal lengths myself.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

57 minutes ago, paulastro said:

Thanks for your comments Michael.  I can't say I've used all the Naglers you mention, but any I have  used I've not been able to see the whole field stop without turning my head which defeat

The Nagler T4s were designed with longer eye relief than the others. The 17mm and the 22mm are particularly good in this respect, the 12T4 is a bit tighter on eye relief, but still clearly better than the Ethos 13mm I compared it to at Olly's place. The Ethos sports just 15mm eye relief, which is just too tight, the Nagler 12T4 has 17 mm, which makes all the difference. I do prefer the Delos 14mm, so maybe the Nagler 12T4 will go in due course. Having a Nagler 17T4, I am not going to  get a 17.5mm Morpheus, as the 17T4 is a cracking EP. The ES LER 92 deg 17mm and 12mm EPs are of course potential replacements, but I do not see that happening any time soon

[John]

2 hours ago, Shaun_the_Sheep said:

Love it !!! Boom !!!

'Tank Fist'. I love the German language, beautifully descriptive. 

Danke. 

 

"The Terminagler" is another popular nickname for the Nagler 31mm

 

[Louis D]

6 hours ago, F15Rules said:

30nm Aero SWA 68 degrees

The 35mm Aero ED is still in stock around the UK.  The 30mm and 40mm not so much.  The 35mm yields a 44.4mm field stop which is nearly the max possible in a 2" barrel.  It has a true 73 degree apparent field of view with little magnification distortion.  The exit pupil might be bit large at 7.4mm though.

7 hours ago, paulastro said:

Top answer Mike, and I'm not biased at all - but it is the best eyepiece in the world for spec users.  The only one I'm aware of with a field of over 70 degrees (the Morpheus is 76 degrees) with which you can genuinely see the whole field with specs on,  and excellent edge quality down to low f ratios.  It barlows up very nicely too.

I don't have the 17.5mm Morpheus, but I do have the 14mm and 9mm Morpheus and agree that they are quite easy to take in the whole FOV with eyeglasses.  However, the 12mm and 17mm ES-92s are just as easy to take in a 16 degree wider AFOV without having to tilt your head.  The exit pupil is remarkably stable for being such a widefield.  However, they are 2"-only and much heavier.  I find the Morpheus remarkably, claustrophobicly narrower after using the ES-92s until I get used to the 76 degree field.  The ES-92s are also sharper to the edge than the 14mm despite being significantly wider.

5 hours ago, paulastro said:

Thanks for your comments Michael.  I can't say I've used all the Naglers you mention, but any I have  used I've not been able to see the whole field stop without turning my head which defeat

I have all the NT4s and agree they are more difficult than the Morpheus (or ES-92s) to take in the edges of the field either directly or indirectly.  The 22mm is probably best, the 17mm is the worst.  I don't know why the 12mm gets such a bad rap.  I find its exit pupil more stable than the 17mm's.  With the 17mm, if you push in far enough to see the edge while looking in the center; boom!, the whole field starts blacking out randomly.  It is tiring trying to find that sub-millimeter sweet spot where everything is visible at once.  The 22mm is better, but not perfect, in this regard.  The 12mm is somewhere in between the 17mm and 22m in exit pupil finickiness.

I can see the entire AFOV of the mushroom top 30mm ES-82 with eyeglasses, but I have to turn my head because the top is so wide.  I haven't tried the 31mm NT5 yet.  I much prefer the 30mm APM UFF at this focal length despite giving up 12 degrees of AFOV.  It's got better eye relief and is better corrected to the edge while being smaller and lighter.

9 hours ago, Shaun_the_Sheep said:

Or Beer

 

Penny beer is going taste pretty skunky, though. ?