Returning Astronomer

[Marmo720]

Hi everyone,

I have been a long time lurker and finally decided to post. I have done a lot of research over the last few weeks and would appreciate any guidance from the community.

Location:

I live south of London and light pollution is very bad. I would estimate bortle class of 7-8. I have access to a car and would be keen to drive 1-2 a month to a darker site if I can find one. Most of my observing will be from garden at the home location though.

History:

20 years ago (in my teens) I borrowed the school Tasco 60mm and observed Jupiter from the bathroom window of my flat. Fell in love with astronomy and now have a PhD in astrophysics! My father gifted me a Meade ETX 90RA before I went to university but I never used it.

A few weeks ago, I found my Meade and it is in pristine condition. I am now eager to get back to astronomy - hence this post.

Observing aims:

I understand observing/photographing planets/doubles and DSO require different scopes. However, I would like to in the long term be able to do both. Happy to settle with one for now with option to do the other later at extra cost.

I have observed Saturn, Jupiter, the Moon and can identify a few constellations in the sky. So a goto system might be useful but I am also keen to learn to star-hop but worried not many stars to hop to in my light polluted skies!

Equipment:

I already have a Cannon EOS M camera I can hopefully use for any photography. I also have my Meade ETX90RA but I don't have the tripod for it and observing outside now is a bit cumbersome.

Here are my options going forward. Some can be combined together:

1) Find Meade #884 tripod and observe with my current telescope. Maybe try some astrophotography of the moon/jupiter for now. Cheapest option but I have had zero luck finding that tripod anywhere over the last few weeks. Tried ebay/gumtree etc. No luck so far.

2) Buy a used 8 inch Dobsonian and observe with that. Second cheapest option and would get me out there observing again. My concern is that even with the larger aperture, I still won't see much in my location besides better views of the planets/moon. Or will I be able to observe enough DSO in between my monthly outings to darker skies?

3) Buy a goto 5 inch telescope (Meade ETX125, Nexstar 5SE, Skywatcher 127). I could go to more objects in my polluted skies even if I can't see them very well. Might try my hand at very short exposure pics and stack them for fun. 

4) Some of my research suggests that a good astrophotography setup would show me DSO after some software cleaning even in my light polluted location. If try, I am tempted to go deep into my pockets to buy a HEQ5 and use my Meade until I can afford ED80 type scope in the future. My concern is that is a lot of money for not knowing exactly what I can observe from my location. Something to build up to maybe? 

For options 3/4, I could sell my Meade ETX to offset the extra costs. For option 2, I will keep looking for a tripod for the Meade so I can compliment it with the Dobsonian.

I am also open to other suggestions and specific setup recommendations. 

Budget:

My range is very wide but I am happy to spend Between £100 (option 1) to £400 (option 4) and I would be buying used if possible to save costs.

Thank you very much for reading all of this and any help provided.

Thanks,

Mo

 

[bingevader]

I have the etx90.

I wouldn't sell it, it's great as a grab and go, holiday 'scope.

I don't know what luck you'd have with an 8" dob in London, I'm sure others will help you out with that advice.

It will fit in a reasonably sized car on the back seat, with the mount in the boot or on the passenger seat.

Astrophotography is a whole different ballgame, and not one I'm familiar with!

Have fun.

[RolandKol]

Hi Mo,

And welcome to the "dark side"!

I am also from S.London and started only around 2.5 years ago, - from 10" DOB in my backgarden... To be honest, I was very excited with a planet views and Orion Nebula,

but that was it... Nothing more... I constantly failed to find Andromeda Galaxy or any other fuzzy "thingy"... Constantly failed...

So I have attached my camera and vualá, - I found it... Andromeda was always in the correct place, but invisible to a naked eye due to London's Light Pollution!...

And that was it....

I fell into that rabbit hole and unfortunately, my wallet fell somewhere much deeper as Astrophotoghraphy (AP) is very expensive, £400 will not be enough...

My very first advise, would be to make up the mind: visual way, or AP way.

1) Visual, from London, will be limited to Planets mainly, but they are usually quite low above horizon, so view must not be obstructed.... Plus The amount of Planets... Unfortunately very limited.

I saw some posts, there are people who enjoy splitting double stars and viewing Sun or Moon only. But it is not my field at all. 

Traveling once or twice a month to a darker place, not a very good option in UK, as our weather conditions will probably make you staying at home for several months, unless you are able to do it on a very short notice.... But I had hundreds nights, when I had setup and clouds came in... Waited for hour, two, three, -  collected all back from my back garden and it went clear...  it is always like this.

2) AP - expensive, but probably the only way to "catch" something more than Planets and Orion from London. The cheapest setup up would be a secondhand HEQ5 mount and Skywatcher ED refractor or 130PDS newtonian. But, both of them will also need Field Correctors, at a price around £150, and guiding cam with a guiding scope (around £200). + cables, adapters for camera and etc. In other words, above £400.

I think your best option, would be HEQ5 and use your current Meade if there is an option to mount it properly. Summer Comes, planets will show up, and Meade will give you a very very nice views or planetary pictures if they will not hide behind the trees  
Later you will be able to decide which way to go, AP or Visual and if needed, HEQ5 can be easily sold as it is the main new start scope.

 

[Louis D]

Even from light polluted areas, you should be able to  see the Pleiades once centered.  Many smaller star clusters will become visible once the power is increased enough to darken the background sky and resolve the individual stars.  Digital setting circles (DSCs) are really handy in light polluted enviroments where there aren't enough stars for star hopping.  With an OIII filter, it is possible to see some other nebula from light polluted areas.  Galaxies in general are a no-go, though.

[lenscap]

Hi Mo, and welcome to SGL.

I observe with an 8" Newt from my Bortle 8 backyard. I can see  -

   Lots & lots of open clusters,

   Many Globular clusters. An 8" scope can take enough magnification to resolve the outer stars.

   M42, plus half a dozen of the brighter planetary nebulae.

My skies are brighter than galaxies or faint nebulae so I just can't see them (except the brightest part of the central core of M31, just a smudge).

You can star-hop in Bortle 8. The hops will have lots of steps so you may print Finder charts and/or use planetarium apps to keep track. I recommend a RACI finder to minimise physical & mental gymnastics, particularly with a Newt.

Clear skies!

 

[Cosmic Geoff]

I am not familiar with the Meade range so can't help there.  So can't tell you if it would fit on some other kind of tripod.

From a light-polluted urban site, some things (planet viewing, planetary imaging, double stars, star clusters, brighter planetary nebulae are possible, and some others (viewing galaxies and nebulae) are fairly hopeless.

Aperture (e.g. around 200mm) is an advantage for planetary imaging, but you can try with what you've got if smaller. Planetary imaging requires a video type camera to take short videos.  

GoTo (controversial subject!) is a great help for viewing at urban sites.  Many objects can still be seen from an urban site with small apertures.  To see galaxies well, you need larger apertures and a dark skies site.

Imaging galaxies is a specialist subject- someone will advise...

[Marmo720]

Wow, thank you everyone for the responses and warm welcome here. 

@RolandKol It is good to hear from the perspective of someone who observes in the same location as myself. I think your point about "wishing" to travel to dark site is true - it has rained/cloudy every night since my first night with the Meade a week ago!!!

I agree with everyone here that visual will limit me to some of the brighter DSO and the planets/moon. While AP will allow me to do the same but also capture more DSO from my location. Of course it costs more! 

@RolandKol I just wanted to confirm two things as I think the best plan for me is HEQ5 with my Meade and then upgrade to ED80 etc later:

1) Can I still take good pictures without guide scope, field corrector etc? Until I buy those of course. Planning to combine the Meade with the HEQ5 and buy the adapter for my Cannon EOS M camera. 

2) Do you have any examples of what can be captured from our location with a similar setup? 

My rational now is that while an 8 inch Dob would show me brighter views, it would be better if I could make use of it in dark skies which I are limited in the UK. I could use the money instead for the HEQ5 and capture from my location.

Also, is anyone going to the practical astronomy show this Saturday? I am planning to drive up and would be good to meet a few fellow astronomers. 

 

Thanks again, 

Mo

[RolandKol]

1 hour ago, Marmo720 said:

Wow, thank you everyone for the responses and warm welcome here. 

@RolandKol It is good to hear from the perspective of someone who observes in the same location as myself. I think your point about "wishing" to travel to dark site is true - it has rained/cloudy every night since my first night with the Meade a week ago!!!

I agree with everyone here that visual will limit me to some of the brighter DSO and the planets/moon. While AP will allow me to do the same but also capture more DSO from my location. Of course it costs more! 

@RolandKol I just wanted to confirm two things as I think the best plan for me is HEQ5 with my Meade and then upgrade to ED80 etc later:

1) Can I still take good pictures without guide scope, field corrector etc? Until I buy those of course. Planning to combine the Meade with the HEQ5 and buy the adapter for my Cannon EOS M camera. 

2) Do you have any examples of what can be captured from our location with a similar setup? 

My rational now is that while an 8 inch Dob would show me brighter views, it would be better if I could make use of it in dark skies which I are limited in the UK. I could use the money instead for the HEQ5 and capture from my location.

Also, is anyone going to the practical astronomy show this Saturday? I am planning to drive up and would be good to meet a few fellow astronomers. 

Thanks again, 

Mo

And here the Dark Arts starts.... As all set ups are very different and one item which does not match  can cause lots of Headache.

Unfortunately, I am in a Newtonian world and cannot give you examples done from London using SW ED, however @carastro has very similar Refrector based set up/ups an is not far from us in the South, - she does a really nice images and has the image collections in one place, I am sure she will show you.

As per Flateners: no - you actually do not need them to start, but soon you will notice you will need to crop quite a lot of your images as the stars in the corners will be distorted.

Due to the lack of clear nights in UK, sooner or later, you will start getting angry of wasting so much data and will want One, - you may find a second hand one also.

Guiding - not essential for the start, as you will be limited to around 60 - 90 sec exposures at ISO800 in London anyway (Sky Glow / Light Pollution will overexpose longer subs).

You will be able to do 60sec subs without guiding, - of course, you will not manage to use 100% of them, - depends on Polar Alignment and tracking quality, you will probably end up with 50% usable subs in your pocket, others will have star trails probably.

So if you will not use Flatener, no Guiding, = your efficiency will be very low. It is a usual thing for any new starter, but it's is good to know there to go further to increase it.

Canon M - another mystery, I cannot guarantee 100% it will manage to get it in focus with SW ED, I think it Should, but I am not sure , as I never had ED and Canon M...

I do have one M42 adapter for Canon laying around, you are welcome to borrow it for testing before buying your own.

I hope someone with ED and Canon M will join this topic and clear the last bits I was not able to

P.S.

I am based on Woolwich/Plumstead border.

And you are welcome to contact me directly if anything

 

 

[JOC]

I found this:  https://telescopereviewer.com/meade-etx-90-telescope-review/ in the pros and cons section it does suggest that it might not have been supplied with a tripod, so unless you categorically know you had one for it, perhaps don't turn out you cupboards looking for something that may not exist!  LOL  It looks a cute little telescope!

[Marmo720]

6 minutes ago, JOC said:

I found this:  https://telescopereviewer.com/meade-etx-90-telescope-review/ in the pros and cons section it does suggest that it might not have been supplied with a tripod, so unless you categorically know you had one for it, perhaps don't turn out you cupboards looking for something that may not exist!  LOL  It looks a cute little telescope!

Yep, I know it didn't come with a tripod. At the time I bought it, it was the most powerful proper telescope (i.e. non department store refractor) I could force my dad to buy for me. A little bit more and it could have been the EC version which came with goto and the tripod   As the telescope is way past warranty now, I am happy to gently remove it from the mount and stick it into a proper mount such as the HEQ5 that has been suggested already. Selling the unit as it is now would probably give me £100 and for that I think it is worth holding on to for planetary views. It is supposed to have very nice optics compared to modern Meades. 

@RolandKol I have seen the images that @carastro shared with me and I am gobsmacked at what is possible from our location. Incredible. While the initial cost for a proper AP mount such as the HEQ5 will be high, I think it will be a great platform to build on for DSO (with ED80/130P) and planetary (Meade ETX). 

Regarding the mounts, is the HEQ5 considered the best value for money AP mount? Are there others that are equivalent that I can keep an eye on in the classifieds/ebay? 

Thanks,

Mo

[RolandKol]

P.S.

With Meade, - probably you will be limited to 3-5sec exposures on DSO, brighter ones, may show up if you stack 100 or more.

Meade would be a Perfect start for Planetary AP!  Moon craters and etc, - as planetary AP works opposite, - you need to do as much Frames per second (FPS) as possible, so only very short exposures are used.

But the main question: is there an option to Mount your Meade on HEQ5 without causing much pain?

Another,

Will you see any other planets but the Moon from your backgarden?

[carastro]

Yes I have used a Meade ETX 105 and ETX 125 on my HEQ5 scope for planetary imaging.  Once deforked you can mount it onto a vixen dovetail.  

I never used it for deep sky imaging as the focal ratio is too slow and it would take foreever to gather enough photons,  plus the focal length is really too demanding for new imagers, but I guess it is not impossible if you have no alternative for a while, but I never found a way to mount a guidescope.  Guess you could do that with a side by side arrangement.  I know some-one who has done DSI with such a scope. 

Definitely look out for a 2nd hand HEQ5, but make sure you find one with a guide port, I think there were some earlier versions that were more basic.

Quote

Will you see any other planets but the Moon from your backgarden?

Mo has probably the same skies as me, and I can see planets.  

Carole 

 

[RolandKol]

As per HEQ5, - it is probably the Most Common starter Mount for a descent price.

There are other options, but I would stick to this one, as it has a  very nice "re-selling possibilities" 

As per AP from London,

Do not forget, - most of us went Mono way and majority of the Nice Images from London are in the Narrow Band (in other words in above £1000 area).

Canon  results will not shine bright as Carole's, - but it is a good way to check cheep if it is your hobby or not
You can check my images (start from bottom)  and see how they change depending on Camera used https://www.flickr.com/photos/154881882@N05/with/44819204355/

As I am not a pro, still beginner, my poor examples are some kind, closer to the reality  especially the first ones.

 

[RolandKol]

And yes, we completely forgot about WideField AP.

You can simply put  your Canon on HEQ5 and have some fun!  
you will need to escape London, target MilkyWay and....  have some really, really nice images!

[Louis D]

7 hours ago, RolandKol said:

I am based on Woolwich/Plumstead border.

I just checked your area.  Bortle 8/9!?!?! ?  And here I thought my suburban Bortle 5/6 skies were bad.

[RolandKol]

1 hour ago, Louis D said:

I just checked your area.  Bortle 8/9!?!?! ?  And here I thought my suburban Bortle 5/6 skies were bad.

And in addition LED street lights....
 

[Marmo720]

3 hours ago, Louis D said:

I just checked your area.  Bortle 8/9!?!?! ?  And here I thought my suburban Bortle 5/6 skies were bad.

Another reason why I am excited by the great images produced by @carastro and @RolandKol. If I can do anything half as good then the joys of the hobby would have returned to me. 

I know observing won't be the same given my location but at least I can still have fun with AP