Small telescope for Star adventurer

[notepadx]

Hello everyone!

I recently got into this hobby and so far I'm enjoying it very much. So much I decided to get a star adventurer hoping to get a shot at some DSO's, unfortunately the electronic focusing on my tele lens, although quite amazing for daytime photography is simply horrible for astrophoto an it changes focus everytime the lens is disconnected or the camera is turned off, besides being a pain to get precise manual focus. I also find the 250mm to be kinda short as I was attempting to shoot the orion nebula or andromeda. So It came to my mind I should get a small telescope for my SA.

What do you recommend?

I read the WO Z61 is an excellent scope and not too heavy for the SA, but unfortunately its way too expensive, (and maybe too wide?). I can the get in Portugal for around 730€ with the FF, but i my budget is around 300-400€ at this point.

 

My equipment (so far):

Manfrotto 055XPRO3 tripod

SW Star Adventurer astropack

Unmodified Canon 77D

Spare Canon 1000D (I will probably astromod at some point)

 Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS STM

Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8 EX DC OS HSM

 

Thanks in advance!

[happy-kat]

There is a trick you can use on your lens. Use the camera back button focus coupled with switching the lens to manual focus. Doing this I never get caught out with focus changing.

[8472]

If you think the Z61 is "too wide" then frankly you're going to need a better mount than a Star Adventurer. Also factor in guiding to go with it.

A used ed80 might get you the views you want, but the mount will not like it one bit.

Stick to your lens with happy-kat's tip, and just crop.

[vlaiv]

So you are looking for a small cheap refractor in 300-400e range, with a bit more focal length as not to be too wide field?

How about this then:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/pro-series/sky-watcher-evostar-72ed-ds-pro-ota.html

 

[notepadx]

39 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

There is a trick you can use on your lens. Use the camera back button focus coupled with switching the lens to manual focus. Doing this I never get caught out with focus changing.

Thank you! I will try that!

 

12 minutes ago, 8472 said:

If you think the Z61 is "too wide" then frankly you're going to need a better mount than a Star Adventurer. Also factor in guiding to go with it.

A used ed80 might get you the views you want, but the mount will not like it one bit.

Stick to your lens with happy-kat's tip, and just crop.

 

The Z61 besides the price of around twice my budget has a FL of 360mm and from my recent experiences with borrowed lenses (70-200 f2.8, 70-300, Canon 400L) the ideal FL i'm looking for is something around 400mm~450mm. Is there any nice telescope around this FL that fits the 5kg weight limit on the mount? Considering the camera is around 540g this gives me around 4kgs without fully loading the mount.

thanks!

 

[notepadx]

5 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

So you are looking for a small cheap refractor in 300-400e range, with a bit more focal length as not to be too wide field?

How about this then:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/pro-series/sky-watcher-evostar-72ed-ds-pro-ota.html

 

Thank you!

 

That's pretty much what i'm looking for. The flattener is a must, right?

[vlaiv]

2 minutes ago, notepadx said:

Thank you!

 

That's pretty much what i'm looking for. The flattener is a must, right?

Probably - do have a look around the net and see what other people think of this scope for imaging and if they are using flattener.

[FaDG]

3 hours ago, notepadx said:

Thank you! I will try that!

 

 

The Z61 besides the price of around twice my budget has a FL of 360mm and from my recent experiences with borrowed lenses (70-200 f2.8, 70-300, Canon 400L) the ideal FL i'm looking for is something around 400mm~450mm. Is there any nice telescope around this FL that fits the 5kg weight limit on the mount? Considering the camera is around 540g this gives me around 4kgs without fully loading the mount.

thanks!

 

Hang on, hang on... I could see trouble arriving. What was your Experience with the 400L?

Before heading out and purchasing stuff, have you considered the following? 

1. The payload  declared by the manufacturer is nowhere near the one you can use photographically! More so with these small trackers. Do not plan to exceed 3.5kg, all told. And "all" does not include only scope and camera. Point 4 for that. 

2. Are you sure that YOUR Star Adventurer is accurate enough for the focal lenght you're choosing?  Using your camera @250mm, and critically focusing, what is the longest exposure you can consistently use WITHOUT TRAILING? At the celestial equator (i.e. Orion). Do it again with the borrowed 400mm.

3. At longer FLs, polar alignment and balancing becomes critical, and the stress put on the tripod too. 

4. Unless the result above gave you at least 60"- 90" (and possibly even in this case), you'll want to be guiding, so you'll need a small guidescope and a guidecamera, so add other about 250€ or more to the equation, and unless you choose a stand alone guider, you'll need to lug your laptop with you. And above 3.5kg payload the stock counterweight may not be enough. 

5. Yes, you'll need a flattener with a DSLR; as simple as that. According to the max FL usable with decent exposure times, you could choose a Reducer / Flattener, to increase the exposure time and reduce the f/ratio, increasing brightness. 

And finally: 

3 hours ago, 8472 said:

If you think the Z61 is "too wide" then frankly you're going to need a better mount than a Star Adventurer.

8472 may be right. You could find out that the SA just can't top the Bill. 

Sorry for the post, I'm not at all blasting at you! Just ask me how I know all of that, and how many Star Adventurers I have used! 

Have you ever wondered why Skywatcher doesn't claim a performance for this thing? They are conceived for widefield. The some of them are more accurate and allow use of longer FLs. ?

Others... ?

So, if you're satisfied with the performance at 300-400 move on, the 72ED advised by @vlaivis a great option, otherwise check well the above. 

Best of luck, Fabio

[notepadx]

2 hours ago, FaDG said:

Hang on, hang on... I see trouble arriving, a whole load of. 

Before heading out and purchasing stuff, have you considered the following? 

1. The payload  declared by the manufacturer is nowhere near the one you can use photographically! More so with these small trackers. Do not plan to exceed 3.5kg, all told. And "all" does not include only scope and camera. Point 4 for that. 

2. Are you sure that YOUR Star Adventurer is accurate enough for the focal lenght you're choosing?  Using your camera @250mm, and critically focusing, what is the longest exposure you can consistently use WITHOUT TRAILING? At the celestial equator (i.e. Orion). Do it again with the borrowed 400mm.

3. At longer FLs, polar alignment and balancing becomes critical, and the stress put on the tripod too. 

4. Unless the result above gave you at least 60"- 90" (and possibly even in this case), you'll want to be guiding, so you'll need a small guidescope and a guidecamera, so add other about 250€ or more to the equation, and unless you choose a stand alone guider, you'll need to lug your laptop with you. And with 3.5kg payload the stock counterweight may not be enough. 

4. Yes, you'll need a flattener with a DSLR; as simple as that. According to the max FL usable with decent exposure times, you could choose a Reducer / Flattener, to increase the exposure time and reduce the f/ratio, increasing brightness. 

And finally: 

8472 may be right. You could find out that the SA just can't top the Bill. 

Sorry for the post, I'm not at all blasting at you! Just ask me how I know all of that, and how many Star Adventurers I have used! 

Have you ever wondered why Skywatcher doesn't claim a performance for this thing? They are conceived for widefield. The some of them are more accurate and allow use of longer FLs. ?

Others... ?

So, if you're satisfied with the performance at 300-400 move on, the 72ED advised by @vlaivis a great option, otherwise check well the above. 

Best of luck, Fabio

Hello,

Thank you for the tips!

I will try to check the max exposure time i can get tonight or tomorrow if the weather allows. I've tried it before but always kept it under 30's due to light pollution in my area rendering the background completely yellow/orange. Will try to go out of town again tonight just to check how much time i can get.

Silly question, should i include the counterweight kit and L-bracket in max load?

Finally another question, my SA polar scope came completely misaligned out of box. I managed to adjust it a little bit. There is definitively some play (about 1mm) when in manually rotate the RA axis, but it appears to come out on top of the target once i fully rotate 180º and get my hands of it.

 

I recorded a video. Sorry for being shaky and often not recording the reticle. Is this correctly aligned or i should try harder?

Thank you, and everyone else for the tips!

 

[FaDG]

1 hour ago, notepadx said:

Silly question, should i include the counterweight kit and L-bracket in max load?

Not silly, the jury is still out on that. 

L bracket definitely yes. Counterweight, some say yes, others no. I count it in. 

Anyway, I feel that the best option is choosing the couple focal length - exposure time in order to have at least 75% of the subs without trailing and avoid guiding. With only the DSLR, 72ED or a 66 (many brand sell them), and field flattener it won't be an issue. 

Yet, 30" are too short to go deep on DSOs. 

From my point of view your Polar scope is not perfect but good enough. Try it at the max FL and for twice the exposure you'll use. If no dec trailing just don't worry. 

[happy-kat]

If you have not found this thread I think you might like it, loads of posts and images taken with the star adventurer

[notepadx]

1 minute ago, FaDG said:

Not silly, the jury is still out on that. 

L bracket definitely yes. Counterweight, some say yes, others no. I count it in. 

Anyway, I feel that the best option is choosing the couple focal length - exposure time in order to have at least 75% of the subs without trailing and avoid guiding. 

Yet, 30" are too short to go deep on DSOs.  

From my point of view your Polar scope is not perfect but good enough. Try it at the max FL and for twice the exposure you'll use. If no dec trailing just don't worry. 

Thank you!

The scope came with the screws loose and was all over the place. Took me around 2 hours and a nasty back pain to get calibrated like that. Will try to get it perfect in the next days.

I live in outskirts of Lisbon so the light pollution is pretty bad. 30s already renders a bright yellow sky with faint stars. Fortunately i came across a small area 20mins away, behind some mountains that apparently sort of help. Never managed to see Andromeda in bare eyes, and 2 days ago there it was a small smudge it with just my contacts.

Hopefully tonight the skies will be clear.

 

[vlaiv]

2 hours ago, notepadx said:

Finally another question, my SA polar scope came completely misaligned out of box. I managed to adjust it a little bit. There is definitively some play (about 1mm) when in manually rotate the RA axis, but it appears to come out on top of the target once i fully rotate 180º and get my hands of it.

Mine on Heq5 is just a bit better than that and I don't really worry much about it. I use EQMod helper when polar aligning - it rotates reticle to proper orientation, and I put Polaris where it supposed to be. I'm guiding so it does not matter much, but with such small focal lengths, I would not worry about PA being less than perfect.

[notepadx]

19 hours ago, vlaiv said:

Mine on Heq5 is just a bit better than that and I don't really worry much about it. I use EQMod helper when polar aligning - it rotates reticle to proper orientation, and I put Polaris where it supposed to be. I'm guiding so it does not matter much, but with such small focal lengths, I would not worry about PA being less than perfect.

Thank you. I got hammered last night after watching a relly intense match where Benfica went to Porto and won So i never ended going out because .. dont drink and drive. So I had a crazy idea of shooting from my window facing south-southwest set my lat on the wedge pointed the tracker north with a compass and then with my phone against the tracker using stellarium pointed to the south pole. Incredibly managed 25" exposure of the orion nebula at 250mm without trailing at 30" some traills started to show. Even though about trying drift alignment but I was to drunk to understand what i was doing so ended going to sleep

[FaDG]

Well, for this test you won't need a dark sky, as you can close your lens to avoid saturation. 

But you need a good polar alignment, because misalignment induces RA drift, as well as dec one, and then you can't separate the effect of mount accuracy from the PA one. 

[notepadx]

On 03/03/2019 at 20:32, FaDG said:

Well, for this test you won't need a dark sky, as you can close your lens to avoid saturation. 

But you need a good polar alignment, because misalignment induces RA drift, as well as dec one, and then you can't separate the effect of mount accuracy from the PA one. 

So last night i managed to get 180s exposures with minimal elongation at 200mm. Went as far as 5min and 10min but then trailing seems evident. I suspect it is due to polar alignment as polaris wandered off in the reticle. Any tips on getting the scope correcly calibrated? i tried my best but just doesnt seem to be enough.
Considering the results at 200. Would this SA be able to track with that 72mm telescope?

How about guiding? It just came to mind that the 72ED + guiding would probably be cheaper than a redcat 51, WOZ61 and around the same price as a prime 200mm f2.8.

 

thanks

[RolandKol]

On 02/03/2019 at 17:45, notepadx said:

Hello,

Thank you for the tips!

I will try to check the max exposure time i can get tonight or tomorrow if the weather allows. I've tried it before but always kept it under 30's due to light pollution in my area rendering the background completely yellow/orange. Will try to go out of town again tonight just to check how much time i can get.

Silly question, should i include the counterweight kit and L-bracket in max load?

Finally another question, my SA polar scope came completely misaligned out of box. I managed to adjust it a little bit. There is definitively some play (about 1mm) when in manually rotate the RA axis, but it appears to come out on top of the target once i fully rotate 180º and get my hands of it.

 

I recorded a video. Sorry for being shaky and often not recording the reticle. Is this correctly aligned or i should try harder?

Thank you, and everyone else for the tips!

 

Oh goodness! 
You earned a monument for such a recording!
I tried and gave up after few tries
How have you managed to survive that? 

[notepadx]

10 minutes ago, RolandKol said:

Oh goodness! 
You earned a monument for such a recording!
I tried and gave up after few tries
How have you managed to survive that? 

ahaha i earned a backpain and a temper tantrum.