Delite or Morpheus??

[Green12]

What would be best upgrade for 8 inch SCT??

i currently have starguiders and Meade SP all FL covered,

 

thanks

[John]

What sort of improvements are you looking for ?

 

[RT65CB-SWL]

I think the TeleVue DeLites are 62deg. and the Baader Morpheus is 76deg.

One thing I do like about the DeLites is the 'instajust' feature. TeleVue introduced this on the Radian's too.

[BGazing]

driven or undriven scope?

magnification in question?

it depends...

 

[John]

The Radian's version of "Instajust" was implemented differently from the system that is used on the Delites and the Delos. The Radians had a "click" adjustment that was rather like Marmite - you either liked it or disliked it.

If you are interested in a wider field of view (than your current eyepieces) then the Morpheus is the way to go. The eyepieces you have (especially the BST Starguiders) are not by any means poor though so your gains in terms of pure optical performance with your SCT will not be earth shattering whichever your go for.

 

 

[Ruud]

Morpheus.

For sure.

[Highburymark]

I love my Delites - they are absolutely top quality optically - but if I was upgrading for use with an SCT think I'd go for something wider. Morpheus seem to get great reviews and you'll save a few quid too.

[RT65CB-SWL]

On 23/02/2019 at 21:49, John said:

The Radian's version of "Instajust" was implemented differently from the system that is used on the Delites and the Delos. The Radians had a "click" adjustment that was rather like Marmite - you either liked it or disliked it.

...

Thank you for clarifying @John 

[Green12]

Thanks for comments

 

yes driven mount (lx 90)

i was very happy happy with my ep's until I got Maxivision 34mm, this was a game changer in my expectations.

this is far superior to my starguiders, clearer,brighter , better colour presentation and obviously wider fov.

With this in my opinion giving me a far superior visual experience I was hoping Morpheus/Delite or Other Maxivision/ES would do similar or better.

 

thanks

 

 

 

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I had a Morpheus for a while (14mm) but sold it due to field curvature, which showed up in both my Celestron C8 and my APM 80mm F/6 triplet. I now have a Delos at the same focal length I find it has the edge over the Morpheus. The Morpheus was certainly good, but edge performance was not up there with the Naglers, Delos, and Pentax XW EPs I had. I almost feel that if they had limited the Morpheus to 70 degrees, it would have been a killer.

[Ruud]

4 hours ago, michael.h.f.wilkinson said:

I almost feel that if they had limited the Morpheus to 70 degrees, it would have been a killer.

I have two Mopheus eyepieces (6.5 and 17.5 mm) and two Delos (8 and 12mm) and I must say, degree per degree, these eyepieces are all four extremely close. The Morpheus just has more degrees. Beyond 72°, the performance of my Deloses abruptly drop to zero, while the Morpheus just keep on giving. Michael compares sharpness at relative distances to the edge, percent for percent, I prefer to compare absolute distances, degree for degree.

Maybe it is field curvature, as Michael says, or something else*, but the 14mm Morpheus certainly appears the weakest eyepiece in its line, just like the Delos 17.3mm is in its line.

If I put my Deloses and Moprheuses in order from best to worst views

1. Morpheus 17.5 mm
2. Delos 12 mm
3. Delos  8 mm
4. Morpheus 6.5 mm

Seeing plays the biggest role here. The relative magnifications of these four eyepieces are 100, 146, 219 and 269. The shorter focal length Delos 8 and Morpheus 6.5 do tend to run into problems with the seeing. (I rarely do this, but using my refractor with an extension tube in its focuser, I did some observations of a spider at three metres distance with the Morpheus 6.5. The image acuity was stunning. )

This thread is of course not about Delos. We're talking Morpheus versus Delite.
Degree for degree, Morpheus cannot fail but win here: Excellent optics in both lines, a magnificently rendered central 62° of the field of view in both, but the Morpheus has better value and its field reaches all the way to 76°.

I am completely unfaithful to brands, by the way. I happen not to need a 14mm, but if I ever did, I would only buy that particular Morpheus after first having tested it extensively myself. Michael is not the only one whose standards it does not meet. Praise for the other Morpheuses however, is near-unanimous and as far as I can tell well deserved.

---
*a field flatness problem need not be caused by the eyepiece alone. The objective also plays a role. My SCT causes me field curvature issues in all of my wide field eyepieces. With my flatfield refractor I experience none. It can also happen that a minor flatness problem of the eyepiece matches badly with an also small flatness problem of the objective. Unfortunate matches are of the type )( and (). Fortunate matches are )) and ((, where the field curvatures of objective and eyepiece fit each other. See https://www.telescope-optics.net/eyepiece_aberrations_1.htm for a more full explanation (about three quarters down the page).

 

 

[John]

I must try a Morpheus someday. Not the 14mm though perhaps ?

[Louis D]

6 minutes ago, John said:

I must try a Morpheus someday. Not the 14mm though perhaps ?

The 14mm does have field curvature and astigmatism in the last 10 degrees of the field, though it's not awful by any means.  The 9mm is just about perfect across the field by comparison.  The 10mm Delos might be have a bit sharper star points, but not by much.

3 hours ago, Green12 said:

i was very happy happy with my ep's until I got Maxivision 34mm, this was a game changer in my expectations.

this is far superior to my starguiders, clearer,brighter , better colour presentation and obviously wider fov.

With this in my opinion giving me a far superior visual experience I was hoping Morpheus/Delite or Other Maxivision/ES would do similar or better.

The Delites will be better corrected across the field than the Starguiders, but not really any wider in AFOV.  I would go with the Delos if you want a wider and sharper field of view.

The Morpheuses will be noticeably wider than the Maxvision 34mm and better corrected/flatter of field except for the 14mm in particular.  However, you'll be working at fairly high powers (2000mm/17.5mm=114x for the longest Morpheus), so I would start with the 17.5mm and 12.5mm versions.

[F15Rules]

I have the Morpheus 9mm and a pair of 17.5mm. They are superb eyepieces. 

I used to own the 14mm Morpheus as well, at a time when I also owned 14mm and 20mm Pentax XWs. I have always really liked the XWs in the short focal lengths, and for a while had the 5,7 , 10, 14 and 20mms. The 5,7 and 10s  were superb, but the 14 and 20mm had severe field curvature..And having done extensive comparisons I replaced the XW 14 and 20 with the Morpheus 14mm and Vixen LVW22mm. I never regretted it. I only sold the 14mm Morpheus when I let a lot of stuff go to help fund my Tak FS128.

I would happily have another 14mm if I didn't now have the 17.5mm and 12.5mm quality orthos.

I plan at some point to get the 6.5mm too☺.

I have also owned the ES version of the 34mm Maxvision 68, a really nice eyepiece. If you liked that eyepiece you will love the Morpheus with their extra 8 degrees of fov..?

Dave

[Ricochet]

15 hours ago, Green12 said:

i was very happy happy with my ep's until I got Maxivision 34mm, this was a game changer in my expectations.

this is far superior to my starguiders, clearer,brighter , better colour presentation and obviously wider fov.

With this in my opinion giving me a far superior visual experience I was hoping Morpheus/Delite or Other Maxivision/ES would do similar or better.

This is not my experience in comparing the two lines. I would put the shorter Starguiders (almost) on a par with the ES/Maxvision/Meade 68°. At f10 (?) even the longer ones are probably well corrected, leaving only the quality of the coatings as something that can be improved. Which particular Starguiders are you comparing the Maxvision to and on what sort of targets? Clearer, brighter and better colour presentation could be effects of exit pupil rather than eyepiece design. If so, changing eyepieces might not give the improvement you're looking for. Having said that, the Delites and Morpheus ranges will be a better than the Starguiders, and the Maxvision.

[BGazing]

All of the listed EPs are fine in an 8in SCT. Below 24 mm /68 deg field curvature will not be that prominent.

I have 17.3 Delos described here as 'weakest' and I cannot fault it in C8. Perhaps it might show its faults in f/4 dob...but I was not able to see it, save for some lateral planetary colour. 

Pick your field preference. I max out at 70 and the rest is fluff. I have recessed eyes so I cannot see field stop in 82 degrees. Still, more is handy.

I'd say shop around and try different brands. If you plan on buying (say) a short frac on altaz, Nagler T6s are awesome for balance and swapping. If you get aperture fever you will get a dob and try Ethoses inevitably. 8.8 ES 82 deg is fantastic, superb planetary EP in SCT 8 and the high-power views of Trapezium in it are awesome. I bought it for 105 euros two years ago from FLO, go figure. I do not plan to replace it with 9mm Nagler, as much as I love them.

One advice - buy quality. Good for your eyes, good for resale. Do not obsess about small differences. Observe. If you dislike a particular EP sell it and try another. Thermal management of your telescope and seeing will anyway be the most important thing in your scope. 

[Paul73]

24 minutes ago, BGazing said:

I have 17.3 Delos described here as 'weakest' and I cannot fault it in C8. Perhaps it might show its faults in f/4 dob...but I was not able to see it, save for some lateral planetary colour. 

No the 17.3 Delos works outstandingly at f4 and f7.5. To my eye, the Delos range clearly beats the ES 100°, 82° & 68° ranges (and they are tidy eyepieces). Not night/day superior, but definitely better. The Delites should be similarly excellent. It is worth noting that the ES 82° 24mm is truely outstanding.

Paul

[John]

I have the 17.3mm and 14mm Delos (Deloi ?) and like them a lot. My fastest scope is F/5.3 though. I also like that they are close to par-focal with the Pentax XW's (I have those in 10, 7, 5 and 3.5mm) whereas the shorter FL Delos revert to Tele Vue's par focal group B which reach focus around 8mm further out.

There are a lot of good eyepieces in the 60-76mm AFoV niche currently

[Paul73]

28 minutes ago, John said:

 the shorter FL Delos revert to Tele Vue's par focal group B which reach focus around 8mm further out.

Televue sell an intravel adapter that  brings the 14mm & 17mm to group B too. Well worth the money imho.

Paul

[Green12]

Not for me, in my experience my Maxivision gave me more enjoyable viewing experience- every thing about it seemed to outgun my Starguiders. Prior to getting MV  I thought I was all set with my starguiders. MVs black is far blacker/cleaner!  All targets brighter and crisper with superior colours. Although I have all Starguiders and 1 MV I was unable to do head to head due to different length FLs. Maybe I've talked myself in going down ES / MV path??

[Louis D]

17 hours ago, John said:

I have the 17.3mm and 14mm Delos (Deloi ?) and like them a lot. My fastest scope is F/5.3 though. I also like that they are close to par-focal with the Pentax XW's (I have those in 10, 7, 5 and 3.5mm) whereas the shorter FL Delos revert to Tele Vue's par focal group B which reach focus around 8mm further out.

According to the TV eyepiece specs page, the 14mm and 17.3mm Delos should focus 12mm closer in than the 12mm and below Delos.  I find my 10mm Delos focuses about 6mm below the shoulder whereas my XWs, XLs, Morpheus, ES-82, Meade 5000 SWA and Plossl, and AT AF70s all focus at the shoulder.  This means the 14mm and 17.3mm Delos should focus about 6mm above the shoulder, so they might challenge my in focus with coma corrector capabilities.  An example of this is the 25mm Meade 5000 HD-60 which just misses coming to focus in my Dob with CC.  I'll have to measure the focus difference of it relative to the XL/XWs just to know my focuser's limits.

Have you had a chance to compare the 17.3mm Delos to the 17mm ES-92 yet?  I find the latter to view just as sharply, flat of field, and color-free as my 10mm Delos, just 20 degrees wider and at a lower power.  Of course, it's not really apples to apples since one is 1.25" and the other is 2" and much larger/heavier.

[Paul73]

I haven’t tried the ES92° range yet. Maybe ES would like to give a set to John to review. I’m sure that he wouldn’t mind.

This is a handy little adapter for 1.25” Eyepieces when you need just that extra few mm of intravel!! It is designed to bring the 14 & 17.3mm Delos to parfocality with the rest of the Delos range (it also means that you can get away with a Parracor 1 rather than the ££££ mk2).

[John]

19 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Have you had a chance to compare the 17.3mm Delos to the 17mm ES-92 yet?  I find the latter to view just as sharply, flat of field, and color-free as my 10mm Delos, just 20 degrees wider and at a lower power.  Of course, it's not really apples to apples since one is 1.25" and the other is 2" and much larger/heavier.

I've not had that pleasure as yet. I'm not in buying mode currently though so unless some kind soul loans me one, I'll have to read about others experiences with them

 

[John]

2 minutes ago, Paul73 said:

.... Maybe ES would like to give a set to John to review. I’m sure that he wouldn’t mind....

 

 

I'm sure that he wouldn't mind as well