Still EFW driver puzzle.

[barkis]

I have put together my  trial setup to launch myself into Digital AP.  The camera is an Atik 314L+ CCD. A Finger lakes electric focuser, and the Atik EFW filter wheel with a 5 port carousel. I Did a couple of Initial practice runs, but when I go into Maxim, to prepare the devices, clicking on connect the camera invokes a message stating can't connect to filterwheel. On checking device manager, the filterwheel driver is in  Other devices, whereas, the camera driver is in the USB list.  I am using Ascom drivers for everything, so it seems the F/W driver is in the wrong place.

I downloaded the core software from the Atik site, so I thought that should sort things OK.  I have e emailed them for help, but they don't seem in any hurry to respond.

Anyone else had this problem , I must have tried every driver they have, but to no avail.  The F/W is a good age, but it was a new purchase. There must be something I'm not doing right.

Enough to drive one crazy ?.

Ron.

 

 

 

[m.tweedy]

Is it an EFW 1. if so

The drivers have been removed from the core software and will need downloading separately

https://www.atik-cameras.com/downloads/ 2/3 way down the page.

 

[Davey-T]

I had this problem with Atik original filter wheel and Maxim and they said they would make the driver available on their site which they did, a few years ago now.

Dave

[barkis]

Many thanks DT & AT, I'll try that old driver today.  As I said, my f/w is and older one, so the Atik download site confused me.  I gather I don't need to change the F/W description in the Ascom Menu either, as my wheel precedes even the 1 and or 2 versions.

I'll report back here with the result of today's effort ?.  Thanks again.

Ron.

 

 

[barkis]

Been at it most of this afternoon, and still struggling. Tried different drivers but not one will load. I think there is another problem, it could be the wheels interface. More investigation needed.. I might get a manual filter wheel, I am peed off with this headache?.

 

[cjdawson]

Sounds like it might be worth uninstalling the filter wheel in device manager, and as you now should have the old and new drivers installed, it might just pick up the driver properly

[barkis]

Still fighting with this trying to get a driver installed.
The wheel has a 5 core cable attached which leads to a module that also has a 12v supply input.
The five core cable plugs into a socket on the module. 

A USB  B  input is also in the module, and I connect that with a usb cable to a usb hub attached to my EQ6 Mount.
A master USB cable connects the USB hub to my laptop. The hub itself is powered by a 5 volt supply.

The Atik 314L Camera USB, and electric remote focuser are also plugged into the USB Hub.
A Starlight Xpress Lodestar Guide Camera USB  Cable is also  plugged into the hub.

All the items load drivers when switched on, and are found in Maxim DL, exept the fiter wheel
which loads a ghost driver in the HID bit of device manager. the other items are located in the USB section.

I  am trying to be patient with Atik Cameras responding to my request for help, but they mmust be either very busy, or as stumped as I am ?.
I do have the manual module which does work by pressing the red buton which moves the carousel one port at a time ok, 
but I would rather the procedure operated via a plan set out in Maxim, otherwise I know I would forget to  move the 
filters at the appropriate times.

Anyone got any idea where I'm going wrong here. I feel there is something I am missing.  A clue might be, when I hit connect a message
pops up saying filter wheel can't be found. This perhaps means there is a vital communication between the two devices that is not happening
for some reason which baffles me.

Ron.

 

 

 

 

[Davey-T]

Is it something like this Ron ?

I have on old Minitron camera that runs with it on WinXP but it won't work on Win10.

Can't remember if it came with any software.

Dave

https://www.amazon.co.uk/KWorld-MAKER-USB2-0-VS-USB2800D-Direct/dp/B0007W5LWI?SubscriptionId=AKIAI2OUHUC2IPHVEYIQ&tag=ikee07-21&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B0007W5LWI&ascsubtag=5c71534926fed5.33769084

[Oddsocks]

Hello Ron.

Trying to help with Atik stuff is virtually impossible unless you have the same items to play with however couple of things that might be applicable.

The device appearing in Device Manager under HID (Human Interface Devices) might not be a problem, some early cameras and wheels from various manufacturers used to appear there even though they were USB devices however I do recall having issues with the early Starlight Xpress cameras which appeared as HID devices instead of SX's proprietary 'ECHO' device and it was necessary to manually move the device drivers into a different directory. Atik support should be able to clarify that for you once they get in touch.

There can be issues with USB hubs preventing correct initialisation of older USB devices so try to connect the wheel only directly to a spare USB socket on the computer and not via a hub, if the wheel now works via MaxIm you may need to run a separate extension just for the wheel.

On the Atik downloads page they state that the name of the filter wheel driver for the EFW2 wheel in the ASCOM setup page has been changed and that for the EFW1 and EFW2 the ASCOM driver to use is 'Atik EFW Driver' as copied below.

Atik still maintain the old MaxIm direct connection plugin even though they recommend using ASCOM. I know that this old plugin is not so stable as ASCOM but It might be worth downloading the plugin and trying to connect to the wheel using the plugin instead of ASCOM. The MaxIm-Atik plugin download and instructions of where to install it are on Atik's download page.

I tried to load the Atik FW driver on one of my test Windows 7 64bit Pro machines but without the wheel itself I could go no further and it did seem that the driver was not compatible with my 64bit version of Windows 7, I couldn't find anything on the Atik site that indicated compatibility with 64 bit Windows for the EFW1 driver, only that they no longer support Windows Xp.

Last thing to check, in Windows Control Panel 'Programs and Features' open 'Features' and ensure that .NET framework 3.5.1 is installed and activated, this was a prerequisite for the older ASCOM platform and some devices designed for that original ASCOM platform still need it and won't work correctly with the current .NET framework 4x, both are still needed for some old equipment.

If/when Atik get back to you they might suggest a remote support session with you so it might be a good idea to install a copy of TeamViewer in readiness, this is free for individual users.

https://www.teamviewer.com/en/

William.

 

 

The latest version of the core software (Version 4.2.2.9) was updated on the 21st of Aug 2018.

CHANGE LOG

PLEASE NOTE:
ASCOM Filter Wheel Users: The EFW2 Filter wheel driver has been renamed. To use your EFW1 or EFW2 filterwheel via ASCOM, you will need to change the driver to ‘Atik EFW Driver’ in the ASCOM menu.

Windows XP: We no longer support Windows XP.

[barkis]

1 hour ago, Davey-T said:

Is it something like this Ron ?

I have on old Minitron camera that runs with it on WinXP but it won't work on Win10.

Can't remember if it came with any software.

Dave

https://www.amazon.co.uk/KWorld-MAKER-USB2-0-VS-USB2800D-Direct/dp/B0007W5LWI?SubscriptionId=AKIAI2OUHUC2IPHVEYIQ&tag=ikee07-21&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B0007W5LWI&ascsubtag=5c71534926fed5.33769084

Hi.  Davey, sorry matey I'm a bit confuse by the plethora of stuff that is on my screen when I click the link you sent here.
Nothing I see relates to my Filter wheel  problem, unless I'm totally ignorant. There's a load of stuff under the Amazon page, but I am baffled my friend ?.

[barkis]

Thanks for your input William. When Atik state the filter wheel should be re named in the Ascom menu, I presume they
are referring to the Ascom Profile. I'm not very bright when in comes to Ascom.
The profile does permit me to edit the name under filter wheels, and I have done that, but with no change to the situation..
I am running  Windows 10,  I will check on the  NET framework 3.5.1 situation though.

I'm grateful for the help on this, but I don't want to take up too much of  others time over it.  I've been hoping for a  simple fix,
but that seems unlikely.. 
I will keep trying a bit more, but I will either buy another wheel, or persevere with the manual option I have  available.

I'm wondering ho old this EFW is that I have, it was made in Portugal, but other than EFW, there are no other Identification letters or Numbers on it.
 

I thank you both for your attempts to unravel this mystery 

Ron.

Checked that William, and  NET framework 3.5.1 is installed.

[Davey-T]

1 hour ago, barkis said:

Hi.  Davey, sorry matey I'm a bit confuse by the plethora of stuff that is on my screen when I click the link you sent here.
Nothing I see relates to my Filter wheel  problem, unless I'm totally ignorant.

The thing in the big picture on the left sounded similar to the thing you have connecting your wheel, as I mentioned it takes an S video connector in and gives USB out, ignore the red/ white/ yellow plugs, it's the thing I used to have to use to connect my very old Minitron camera probably of a similar vintage to your filter wheel so just thought it might be a similar device and mine wont run in Win10.

Did it come with an installation disc ?

I have an Atik 1 filter wheel and yours must predate that so it must be pretty old and may simply not run in Win10 environment.

The Atik Core Software should install the NET Framework 3.5.1 by default.

Good luck

Dave

[barkis]

3 hours ago, Davey-T said:

The thing in the big picture on the left sounded similar to the thing you have connecting your wheel, as I mentioned it takes an S video connector in and gives USB out, ignore the red/ white/ yellow plugs, it's the thing I used to have to use to connect my very old Minitron camera probably of a similar vintage to your filter wheel so just thought it might be a similar device and mine wont run in Win10.

Did it come with an installation disc ?

I have an Atik 1 filter wheel and yours must predate that so it must be pretty old and may simply not run in Win10 environment.

The Atik Core Software should install the NET Framework 3.5.1 by default.

Good luck

Dave

Cheers Davey, I see now what you mean.      The  interface with the wheel is about 3" X 2" and 1" deep.it has an Avi type 5 pin socket and the long cable extending from the F/W stepper motor plugs into the socket. A pin socket takes a 12 volt DC input, and a USB B socket from there to the Hub.  I tried a cable direct to the laptop instead of the hub, but still no joy.    I have the same interface manual unit, which is exactly the same size, but minus the usb input socket.

I think I'll just shop around for a new Filter Wheel. I've been  fighting this for three weeks now, and I'm a bit weary of it now.   I do appreciate the help trying to fathom this, but I don't like being a pest. ?

Ron.

[Oddsocks]

5 hours ago, barkis said:

Thanks for your input William. When Atik state the filter wheel should be re named in the Ascom menu, I presume they
are referring to the Ascom Profile. I'm not very bright when in comes to Ascom.
The profile does permit me to edit the name under filter wheels, and I have done that, but with no change to the situation..

Hi Ron.

Reading the Atik blurb on the download page I don't think they are asking you to physically change the name of the driver, just ensure that after you load the latest ATIK core software that you choose the ASCOM driver named 'Atik EFW Driver' from the list of available drivers in MaxIm's ASCOM driver chooser list.

If you go and physically change the name of a driver in the ASCOM profile then you are just selecting the same old driver with a new name, so no real change, if that makes sense?

William.

[barkis]

57 minutes ago, Oddsocks said:

Hi Ron.

Reading the Atik blurb on the download page I don't think they are asking you to physically change the name of the driver, just ensure that after you load the latest ATIK core software that you choose the ASCOM driver named 'Atik EFW Driver' from the list of available drivers in MaxIm's ASCOM driver chooser list.

If you go and physically change the name of a driver in the ASCOM profile then you are just selecting the same old driver with a new name, so no real change, if that makes sense?

William.

You may be right there William,, I will investigate that possibility, hopefully, it might just work.
After struggling with this for so long now, I am about to show the white flag, but I will persevere a bit longer.
The Atik download site confuses me, It does not come across too well, especially for anyone relatively new to 
filter wheels and ccd camera drivers etc.. Things could have been tabulated better, giving a better indication of just
what is required to get a device communicating with the computer. I must have installed every driver they have listed, but
although the Atik camera  was straight forward, the filter wheel has just been a torment ?.
Thanks for your suggestion though, I will give it a go before I dive off the roof ?.
Ron.

[Oddsocks]

28 minutes ago, barkis said:

The Atik download site confuses me, It does not come across too well, especially for anyone relatively new to 
filter wheels and ccd camera drivers etc.. Things could have been tabulated better, giving a better indication of just
what is required to get a device communicating with the computer.

I Agree Ron.

The fact that there is no proper documentation on the site for discontinued products and that they choose to bundle what there is with the driver packages makes it hard to help with problem diagnosis, especially if like me you generally use a Mac as you can't install the Windows drivers on a Mac to get at the bundled documentation. I can load Windows drivers into Windows Virtual Machines on the Mac but I have no hardware support so run into a brick wall.

Good products and generally good support but poor website....

You might need to uninstall ASCOM and the ATIK software then reboot and start again.

I would definitely give Atik's MaxIm plug-in a try since that bypasses ASCOM entirely and allows direct communication between MaxIm and the FW. Both the Plugin and ASCOM can coexist, it's not an either-or situation, with the plugin and ASCOM both installed you can chose in MaxIm whether to connect via the plugin or ASCOM.

Having been a MaxIm DL user since version four I know how difficult getting to use it can be, it's quite a steep learning curve.

On MaxIm's help forum (and Software Bisques) one of the most often quoted fault finding steps is to install the manufacturers provided capture program and see if you can establish communication with cameras and filter wheels with that, if you can then return to MaxIm or whatever and continue fault finding there, if you can't then you know for sure the issue is a bit more basic and resides with the low level drivers or hardware.

William.

[barkis]

9 hours ago, Oddsocks said:

I Agree Ron.

The fact that there is no proper documentation on the site for discontinued products and that they choose to bundle what there is with the driver packages makes it hard to help with problem diagnosis, especially if like me you generally use a Mac as you can't install the Windows drivers on a Mac to get at the bundled documentation. I can load Windows drivers into Windows Virtual Machines on the Mac but I have no hardware support so run into a brick wall.

Good products and generally good support but poor website....

You might need to uninstall ASCOM and the ATIK software then reboot and start again.

I would definitely give Atik's MaxIm plug-in a try since that bypasses ASCOM entirely and allows direct communication between MaxIm and the FW. Both the Plugin and ASCOM can coexist, it's not an either-or situation, with the plugin and ASCOM both installed you can chose in MaxIm whether to connect via the plugin or ASCOM.

Having been a MaxIm DL user since version four I know how difficult getting to use it can be, it's quite a steep learning curve.

On MaxIm's help forum (and Software Bisques) one of the most often quoted fault finding steps is to install the manufacturers provided capture program and see if you can establish communication with cameras and filter wheels with that, if you can then return to MaxIm or whatever and continue fault finding there, if you can't then you know for sure the issue is a bit more basic and resides with the low level drivers or hardware.

William.

Thank you kindly William, that seems sound advice, and  I'll do just that.
I've spent more than enough money on AP stuff, and to be baulked by the filter wheel is sad..
I have the option of using the manual module, but I would have preferred to set out a script in Maxim
and rule out me forgetting to press a button when needed ?.
I will give it a miss today, and spend Sunday with the good lady. She thinks I'm turning into a hermit
in that Obs.

Thanks again, to you, and all the other guys who have contributed assistance on this problem.
Ron.

[barkis]

On 24/02/2019 at 09:13, barkis said:

Thank you kindly William, that seems sound advice, and  I'll do just that.
I've spent more than enough money on AP stuff, and to be baulked by the filter wheel is sad..
I have the option of using the manual module, but I would have preferred to set out a script in Maxim
and rule out me forgetting to press a button when needed ?.
I will give it a miss today, and spend Sunday with the good lady. She thinks I'm turning into a hermit
in that Obs.

Thanks again, to you, and all the other guys who have contributed assistance on this problem.
Ron.

We'll, I've bit the bullet and ordered another F/W.  Wasted too much time on trying to  connect it to the laptop. 

Cheers guys, I didn't enjoy throwing the towel in, but things should progress now at least.

[barkis]

New F/W arrived yesterday,  Installed without any bother at all, 
All engines now running, lift off pending getting my head around Maxim.
That'll be fun ?.
Ron.

[Oddsocks]

On 25/02/2019 at 20:35, barkis said:

Cheers guys, I didn't enjoy throwing the towel in, but things should progress now at least.

Shame that you have had to throw more money at the problem however there is only so much time you can spend on these driver problems when you don’t have a deep understanding of Windows or the software tools to dig deeper.

Did Atik get back to you and offer any help and did you buy another Atik wheel?

Would be very disappointed to hear that they had ignored your email to support, though having worked on a customer support help desk from time to time I know how easy it is for individual emails to automatically end up in the spam folder, or dissapear in amongst others with similar titles in the ‘about’ header.

When faced with similar failures in contacting support myself I usually find an old fashioned letter of complaint to the managing director elicits some kind of response, after all, if they don’t know they are failing then things will not improve and I think it is a mistake to assume they have the staff, and time, to browse all the internet for complaints about their products or services.

Good luck with imaging, MaxIm is a bit of a mystery at first but the built in help documentation is quite good, the web support site less so. Diffraction Limited support staff don’t seem to want to nurse-maid new users and will often just refer you back to the built-in help docs while other users of Maxim rarely offer much support via the official site, don’t know why that is, perhaps they are mostly professionals and just too busy....?

If you do get stuck with MaxIm and can’t get an answer through Diffraction’s support forum you will still find a few users here on SGL, though I think we might be becoming an endangered species.....?

William. 

[Davey-T]

8 minutes ago, Oddsocks said:

you will still find a few users here on SGL, though I think we might be becoming an endangered species.....?

One still surviving here, I've used Maxim for more years than I care to remember, it has a lot of powerful features that I never use of course and it's too expensive nowadays.

I have delved into the myriad menus of SGP and may one day get it to work If I live that long 

Maxim support has gone downhill since the guy who seemed to handle all the email enquiries retired a few years ago, I had many back and forths with him over the years talking me through stuff.

The revamped Cyanogen Site is pretty useless as they seem to think that SBIG are the only people that make astro' imaging gear and they're not interested in the likes of Atik.

The forum is OK and you do get a reply of sorts from staff, there is a Maxim users Yahoo group that used to be quite active but got less so and I haven't looked at it for ages.

Dave

 

 

 

[ollypenrice]

The EFW1 was not Atik's greatest product. I have one somewhere but moved over the the EFW2.

A bit of advice I got from Ian King years ago was to run something in its own software if it is acting up in a third party environment. I'm very fond of good old Artemis Capture and use it all the time. I don't use ASCOM.

I would strongly advise you to label all USB cables and all PC USB ports and keep them consistent. Never change them. (You may already have done this of course.)

Olly

[barkis]

Atik did apologise initially, the reason was they were experiencing a very busy period.  Unfortunately I think they misunderstood my request for help regarding the drivers for the old unit I was trying to install.  The electronics were not built into the wheel, as modern ones are. The one I have has separate module, into which a multi core cable emanating from the wheel plugged into. The module also has a 12v power input, and USB B type input.the A end of which I connected to a USB Hub. On trying several drivers downloaded from the Atik Cameras site, the only response in Device Manager, was  unknown device found, but no drivers were installed  at all. 

I'm still waiting for a response to the second Email I sent, so I assume it means they are still busy, or washed there hands on the problem.

However, frustration got the better of me, and I bought another wheel from Flo. The ASI Mini 5 port carousel, which is all I require.  I had it installed in no time flat. I know for sure If any problems arise, I will get a better response.

I don't have any animosity towards Atik, I have  Their 314L CCD, and that's fine.

All devices are up and running and responding within Maxim, but as you say, Maxim is a deep mother, and I have more education to muster.

Thanks for your input William.

Ron .

 

 

[barkis]

24 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

The EFW1 was not Atik's greatest product. I have one somewhere but moved over the the EFW2.

A bit of advice I got from Ian King years ago was to run something in its own software if it is acting up in a third party environment. I'm very fond of good old Artemis Capture and use it all the time. I don't use ASCOM.

I would strongly advise you to label all USB cables and all PC USB ports and keep them consistent. Never change them. (You may already have done this of course.)

Olly

I do have all the ports coded Olly, I remember that advice been given some time ago.

[Rush]

On ‎16‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 22:55, barkis said:

 

Enough to drive one crazy ?.

Ron.

 

 

 

Well ,thats the free gift of this hobby  Ron.

Aik updated FW Drivers sometime back. If you r using EW1 , you have to down load the FW1 Driver from Atik download  page seperate.

For FW2 u need the core Software update and in the Ascom dropdown list  ( Properties ) You will have to choose Atik EFW Driver.

Ascom  driver is Atik Universal  i guess.

Gd Lk

Rush