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TS Optics 102ED FPL51 - Any info/reviews/users?


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Got a response, rather out of hours and it's not what I expected/wanted. TS want to go down the courier mishandling route by means of sending an inspector, this doesn't bode well. Why should it make any difference how the damage occurred, the fact is it's not my fault so they should take it back and sort the insurance themselves, right?

Hello,

 sorry for the late reply. I will see what we can do for you. Please don’t use the telescope or change anything. As long as it is not sure if the damage is from transport it’s something for the insurance and they will send an inspector.

I contact you soon and write you how we proceed.

 Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards

Hans Leipold

Edited by parallaxerr
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12 minutes ago, parallaxerr said:

I will see what we can do for you Please don’t use the telescope or change anything. As long as it is not sure if the damage is from transport it’s something for the insurance and they will send an inspector

I might be optimistic, but what they're writing is that they'll have it sorted out, but they need to provide evidence of the mishandling by the courier if any. If not, I hope they'll manage it directly on their side. 

Good luck

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1 minute ago, FaDG said:

I might be optimistic, but what they're writing is that they'll have it sorted out, but they need to provide evidence of the mishandling by the courier if any. If not, I hope they'll manage it directly on their side. 

Good luck

My experience of receiving damaged goods in the past is that the vendor issues an immediate "return merchandise authorisation" and issues a return label and a refund. It's up to them to deal with the insurance. I hope you're right!

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Insurance inspector for a scope that is worth 500? Is that really a thing? I mean that guy's day will probably cost as much?

I am really sorry to hear this happening to you and I agree...they should immediately authorise the return ( or are we spoilt by Amazon??? )

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It's Not just amazon. I have had immediate RMAs from other vendors, including one recently for a faulty turbo trainer that cost £1100! In fact, I received a replacement before even returning the faulty item, in that case.

A bit of research suggests this is 100% the vendors responsibility to sort though so it should be resolved either way. I just find the insurance inspector business a bit strange. I'm glad it's all been recorded here though, so if I have to file a dispute I can refer Paypal to this thread!

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I didn't mean that the guy will show up phisically at his place... ?

But TS may need to send photographic evidence, and possibly details as per insurer's request. 

Anyway, knowing that the parcel had insurance is reassuring, isn't it? ?

What i feel strange is that from @parallaxerr pics, the focusser seemed damaged DESPITE the external envelope being intact. I think this is what TS shall sort out. 

Anyway, we'll see, and I wish him everything turns out the best. 

Fabio

 

Edited by FaDG
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3 minutes ago, FaDG said:

What i feel strange is that from @parallaxerr pics, the focusser seemed damaged DESPITE the external envelope being intact. I think this is what TS shall sort out.  

The inside of the inner box is damaged (compressed), so it's clearly taken a knock. The outer box is undamaged though, leading me to believe the damage may have occured prior to dispatch.

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Still waiting further contact from TS, whether we are spoiled by other vendors response times I don't know, but this slow response is very frustrating.

In the mean time I spoke to Paypal who will gladly refund the full value, should I chose to go down that route, but it could take up to 30days. Furthermore, they want the scope inspected by a telescope shop (due to the value) to confirm the damage. Well there isn't a telescope shop within hundreds of miles of me, which is why I bough online in the first place! I wonder if Jessops would oblige? I wouldn't call them a specialist, but they sell SW stuff.

What a palaver.

Edited by parallaxerr
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5 minutes ago, John said:

I believe that TS are possibly the largest European astro dealer so they should have the resources to respond promptly :icon_scratch:

Especially when customer satisfaction is at stake !

They are being deathly slow John, I have received only one vague e-mail since last Friday morning. I have now opened a case with Paypal.

EDIT: I just received another vague e-mail via the Paypal resolution centre - "we will be in touch soon"

Sorry TS, not good enough.

Edited by parallaxerr
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I feel for you Jon, I really do! A new scope should be an exciting and enjoyable time, but this has left a nasty aftertaste I'd imagine. I'd also imagine TS will lose some sales from this, and not just with this refractor, as their trustworthiness has been brought into question.

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35 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

I feel for you Jon, I really do! A new scope should be an exciting and enjoyable time, but this has left a nasty aftertaste I'd imagine. I'd also imagine TS will lose some sales from this, and not just with this refractor, as their trustworthiness has been brought into question.

Thanks Mike and you're right, not an exciting or enjoyable experience at all. I keep wondering if I'm being too sensetive or expecting too much but the messages I've received have felt quite dismissive.

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7 hours ago, parallaxerr said:

Furthermore, they want the scope inspected by a telescope shop (due to the value) to confirm the damage. Well there isn't a telescope shop within hundreds of miles of me, which is why I bough online in the first place! I wonder if Jessops would oblige? I wouldn't call them a specialist, but they sell SW stuff.

I'm not familiar with UK geography, but I did a quick lookup, and Caerleon appears to be near Newport which has a Camera Centre UK which might be able to do a damage appraisal.

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3 minutes ago, Louis D said:

I'm not familiar with UK geography, but I did a quick lookup, and Caerleon appears to be near Newport which has a Camera Centre UK which might be able to do a damage appraisal.

Maybe so, I just find this whole thing ridiculous quite frankly. Insurance inspectors and damage appraisals. What are the chances of a camera shop carrying out said appraisal free of charge I wonder?

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8 minutes ago, parallaxerr said:

Thanks Mike and you're right, not an exciting or enjoyable experience at all. I keep wondering if I'm being too sensetive or expecting too much but the messages I've received have felt quite dismissive.

From my experience, their e-mails seem to be lacking in both words, and sometimes sense :D. I completely feel for you, and I would also be extremely annoyed by the state of the scope and also way it's been handled.

However, I don't think couple of days should be considered "ultimate deadline" for dealing with this. I would personally start to get deeply annoyed after a week maybe?

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2 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

From my experience, their e-mails seem to be lacking in both words, and sometimes sense :D. I completely feel for you, and I would also be extremely annoyed by the state of the scope and also way it's been handled.

However, I don't think couple of days should be considered "ultimate deadline" for dealing with this. I would personally start to get deeply annoyed after a week maybe?

I have not set an ultimate deadline. I will raise it as a claim with PP come Friday, which will be 7 days.

What is aggravating me the most is the ridiculous notion of inspecting the goods and packaging before aportioning blame, I assume so that TS can claim their costs back from UPS (who I don't believe are at fault) before progressing. This should be done by TS after satisfying the customer and should not delay a replacement or refund, imo.

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4 minutes ago, parallaxerr said:

I have not set an ultimate deadline. I will raise it as a claim with PP come Friday, which will be 7 days.

What is aggravating me the most is the ridiculous notion of inspecting the goods and packaging before aportioning blame, I assume so that TS can claim their costs back from UPS (who I don't believe are at fault) before progressing. This should be done by TS after satisfying the customer and should not delay a replacement or refund, imo.

In my view, main culprit is lack of protective packing. It could well be that scope got damaged in transport although there are no marks on the outside of the box. Box might have been just shoved against flat wall or any other surface and scope slammed to the side due to inertia bending focuser shaft and cracking focuser cap. That just means OTA was not properly secured in the box.

In any case - you are right, it has nothing to do with you and their priority should be towards you.

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53 minutes ago, parallaxerr said:

I assume so that TS can claim their costs back from UPS

I don't know how it works with retailers, but UPS won't honor a damage claim unless it was packed by one of their brick and mortar affiliates.  Basically, user packaging can't be insured against damage, only loss.

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2 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

I feel for you Jon, I really do! A new scope should be an exciting and enjoyable time, but this has left a nasty aftertaste I'd imagine. I'd also imagine TS will lose some sales from this, and not just with this refractor, as their trustworthiness has been brought into question.

They have lost a sale to me for starters. At the very least, they could have explained their ultimate intent to Jon. Are they going to issue a return ticket for Jon to send it back free of charge? Are they offering to replace promptly and throw in a sweetener to smooth things over? It's the lack of information on their behalf that I'd find the most frustrating.

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1 hour ago, Louis D said:

I don't know how it works with retailers, but UPS won't honor a damage claim unless it was packed by one of their brick and mortar affiliates.  Basically, user packaging can't be insured against damage, only loss.

Maybe this is the issue - that TS did not send with damage cover and they're trying to figure out how to fix it?

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A change of tone from TS this morning. They are now asking me to remove the focuser and return it to them for repair. It still doesn't sit well with me, what if the optics are out of alignment due to the knock?

Their website conditions say I'm "entitled to demand replacement, defect free goods or a repair", should I still go for a replacement, or let paypal refund me and get shot all together? Thing is, PP may agree that they're offering a reasonable resolution.

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12 minutes ago, parallaxerr said:

A change of tone from TS this morning. They are now asking me to remove the focuser and return it to them for repair. It still doesn't sit well with me, what if the optics are out of alignment due to the knock?

Their website conditions say I'm "entitled to demand replacement, defect free goods or a repair", should I still go for a replacement, or let paypal refund me and get shot all together? Thing is, PP may agree that they're offering a reasonable resolution.

Oh Dear, that's not ideal, I would expect a little better from TS. I would send it back and go with another supplier. It's a shame FLO don't have a 4" f/7 ED offering in this price bracket.  

I would hope Paypal would see that taking the scope apart isn't a reasonable solution, but there is only one way to find out.

Edited by Lockie
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1 hour ago, Lockie said:

Oh Dear, that's not ideal, I would expect a little better from TS. I would send it back and go with another supplier. It's a shame FLO don't have a 4" f/7 ED offering in this price bracket.  

I would hope Paypal would see that taking the scope apart isn't a reasonable solution, but there is only one way to find out.

I agree Lockie, I don't think it's fair to ask the customer to disassemble a scope. What if I slipped and scratched the OTA, for example? That would be my fault and I'd have to live with the damage.

I have now stated my terms via Paypal. Either replace with a complete new scope, inspected as being all correct, or provide a full refund. If we cannot agree on a solution, then I'll raise the case to a claim.

Edited by parallaxerr
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3 minutes ago, david_taurus83 said:

Under EU law I believe, you have 14 days to return the goods for a refund.

I'm not sure if that would work now as I've already declared a defect? Also, I would be liable for return postage which would not be cheap!

Anyway, Paypal were pretty clear on the telephone, should I wish to raise this to a claim, they will take the money from TS's bank account and refund me in full. It's up to TS what happens with the scope then.

Edited by parallaxerr
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