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DSLR v OSC camera


oldannie

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I have an observatory set up where I image with  a Takahashi 106 with Atik 460 mono plus guider on NEQ6.  I also have an HEQ5 plus a nice TS imaging Star 71, 347mm, f/4.9 which are just languishing around.  As  my husband is beginning to take an interest in imaging we thought we might set up outside as I did when first starting.  I used to use DSLR's but now thinking about a OSC ccd.  Wondering if they have sufficient significant advantages to DSLR's to warrant the expense?  

Annie

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15 minutes ago, oldannie said:

I have an observatory set up where I image with  a Takahashi 106 with Atik 460 mono plus guider on NEQ6.  I also have an HEQ5 plus a nice TS imaging Star 71, 347mm, f/4.9 which are just languishing around.  As  my husband is beginning to take an interest in imaging we thought we might set up outside as I did when first starting.  I used to use DSLR's but now thinking about a OSC ccd.  Wondering if they have sufficient significant advantages to DSLR's to warrant the expense?  

Annie

In my opinion a second has DSLR is the best way to get started, get a 450D or a 550D or a 600D for £200 or less second hand and get going. Once your done with that and want to spend more serious money on a dedicated camera get a mono camera not an OSC. 

What I would never do is get a new model DSLR its just not cost effective vs a dedicated camera. 

What is your budget for a camera?

Adam

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16 minutes ago, oldannie said:

I have an observatory set up where I image with  a Takahashi 106 with Atik 460 mono plus guider on NEQ6.  I also have an HEQ5 plus a nice TS imaging Star 71, 347mm, f/4.9 which are just languishing around.  As  my husband is beginning to take an interest in imaging we thought we might set up outside as I did when first starting.  I used to use DSLR's but now thinking about a OSC ccd.  Wondering if they have sufficient significant advantages to DSLR's to warrant the expense?  

Annie

Your choices now include OSC cameras with either CCD or CMOS chips. The CMOS chipped cameras are much less expensive than CCD and seem to be giving good results. I would, personally, far rather use one of these than a DSLR. I also prefer mono but that's a different debate.

Thinking about your setup as a whole, you have paid a lot of money for optical qualities in the 106 which you are not exploiting. Much of the production cost went into making a giant flat field which can very easily cover a full frame sensor yet your 460 has a tiny one. Have you considered putting the 460 in the WO and going for a full frame, or at least APSc, chip for the Tak?

(I use a 460 in a TEC140 for high res on small targets and a full frame in a 106 for widefield.)

Olly

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I would say that main advantage of OSC over DSLR is ability to calibrate subs properly - and that alone is worth the price difference (which is fairly small when comparing entry level DSLR to astro cameras - high end DSLR bodies will cost more that astro camera for example). Here are two good choices at lower end of price scale (one being CCD - for those who like that approach, end other being CMOS):

https://www.qhyccd.com//en/QHY8L.html

https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/product/asi294mc-pro-color

CCD is APS-C sized chip with larger pixels so better suited for long focal length instrument with enough corrected field to support this size. CMOS is 4/3 sensor - I would say better suited to short FL scopes.

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Hi, Annie,

Particularly if setting up outside, as you know a DSLR has certain advantages - no computer needed, easy to focus provided the camera has zoomable live view and a tiltable screen.  Although not as sensitive for finding targets, as you will also know from your own experience a DSLR will happily see the bright stars used for mount alignment, then the GOTO of the HEQ5 and relatively short test exposures will do the rest.  Although many DSLRs have a maximum internal exposure of 30 seconds, this item does an excellent job with my Canon 700D at a very reasonable price.  To be fair I mainly use my Canon for Eclipses (Solar and Lunar) and Comets.  I did have a one-shot colour CCD camera for a while several years ago and got some good results with it on brighter targets.  See the images linked from this page on my web site.  That ST4000 was of course CCD, but I believe the advances in CMOS sensors have pretty well closed the performance gap, and considerably reduced the price of OSC astro cameras.

If you want to autoguide the longer exposures, then of course unless you use a stand alone autoguider you will need a computer.  So it becomes more a matter of budget versus sensitivity, one-shot versus mono and cooling versus uncooled.  Nightmare decision time ?

Just a thought, added later: You state " I used to use DSLRs ".  Does that mean you still have a DSLR?  In which case it's pretty well a no brainer - give it a try and see how your other half gets on with it.  If he doesn't get hooked, then at least you haven't lashed out a lot of ££s for nothing.

Best of luck,

Peter

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For a cooled OSC I went for this one, with an APS-C sized chip. I like it a lot (as many others) and the chip would make use of more of your image area than your Atik 460, especially from the Tak:

https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/product/asi071mc-pro

If you go for a DSLR I can recommend Canon 60D. So good that I bought two of them before I went for cooled cameras. You can find them from 200 - 300 pounds on ebay and they are semi professional so better built than for example the 600 series. They have a flip out and rotatable screen with zoom function (for focusing) with is almost neccessary for AP. Quite low noise at ISO 1600 so Canon used the model to make a dedicated AP model called 60Da. The only difference is better Ha sensitivity, but that one is difficult to find and cost 4-5 times more, and the Ha sensitivity of the standard 60D is quite good - here is an example of a pure Ha image (12 nm clip in Astronomik Ha filter) that I took with a Canon 60D and a 300 mm Canon f/4 lens (so similar aperture to your TS scope).

IMG6149-66+6185-204PS5.jpg

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Just a note regarding Hydrogen-alpha.  Astronomiser  does H-alpha mods on Canon cameras at a reasonable price.  He modded my 700D, which still autofocuses correctly and with a suitable custom white balance takes perfectly acceptable 'normal' photographs.

Cheers,

Peter

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Well lots of food for thought and some very helpful info so thanks guys.  I think it does seem sensible to start off with the DSLR's I already have - modded canon 550D and modded canon 5D mk11 then as is suggested move forward from there.  I haven't really followed what's been happening with CMOS so something to research.  I would take a laptop out anyway as I like Backyard Nikon.  Even in the observatory I have always used a stand alone guider, the Lacerta MGEN which  works admirably so would be happy to have another. 

I take the point about not utilising the optical qualities of the 106 and may think about going full frame.  Moving from DSLR to CCD imaging this season was a big step for me and am a bit reluctant to move away from a setup that is now working well for me however............  I am also a bit reluctant to think about setting up a mono CCD/ filter etc and associated cables outside but you never know!

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A big advantage of the CMOS APS-C type cameras is that they are cooled and have specialised readout electronics. That is the biggest difference I noticed moving from a DSLR to cooled CMOS OSC. Essentially they are the same as the chips in your DSLR, but quieter, no amp glow, lower read noise etc. But agree with many, if you have the DSLRs around, why not start there?

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