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dweller25

Tak TSA102 v Tak FC-100DF

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I am thinking about selling my Tak TSA102 and getting a Tak FC-100DF for grab and go visual use only.

I need to keep weight down so will use my lightweight Vixen GP (rated at 7kgs capacity) on it's Hal aluminium tripod.

The TSA pushes this mount at high power - which is what I mostly use.

The TSA weighs 6.4kgs, the FC-100DF weighs 3.4kgs, visual performance should be the same.

"If Carling made 4" telescopes it would probably be a TSA102" ?

Thoughts - am I insane ? ?????

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What are you gaining from this David?

The scopes have similar specs, both great scopes.
Is the saving in faster cooldown from a triplet to a doublet?

The scopes have a weight difference which must be mainly from the glass reduction.
102 TSA 6.4 Kg ? But according to Tak UK its 5.4Kg, so may be lighter than you think??
FC-100 DF 3.4Kg
So a 3 Kg or 2Kg saving in weight, that is not much really in the big picture.

I have not read any negative comments on the FC-100 DF in fact all praise, it is a scope I would dearly like to own myself.

The one thing you have to lose is quite a bit of cash in this move, but when don't you with kit.
Are you mad, yes possibly to some, but as grab and go and rapid cooling, perhaps not.
 

Edited by Alan White
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Hi David,

A left field suggestion..Have you considered a Vixen ED103s doublet?

Very light (3.6kg), similar focal length (F7.7) and an extra 3mm aperture (:grin::grin:). The stock focuser is very good (I have one, mine is a single speed but the later ones came with dual speed).

This was the scope that came after the legendary Vixen FL102s.

Mine stands up very well optically with my FS128 (apart from the extra aperture of course). 

And you could get a used one for a while lot less than an FC100!

Dave

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Hello Dave

No I hadn’t - but I am now ? although Vixen say 5.4kg??

How much does yours actually weigh with finder, tube clamps, dovetail and extension tubes ??

Edited by dweller25

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1 hour ago, Alan White said:

What are you gaining from this David?

The scopes have similar specs, both great scopes.
Is the saving in faster cooldown from a triplet to a doublet?

The scopes have a weight difference which must be mainly from the glass reduction.
102 TSA 6.4 Kg ? But according to Tak UK its 5.4Kg, so may be lighter than you think??
FC-100 DF 3.4Kg
So a 3 Kg or 2Kg saving in weight, that is not much really in the big picture.

I have not read any negative comments on the FC-100 DF in fact all praise, it is a scope I would dearly like to own myself.

The one thing you have to lose is quite a bit of cash in this move, but when don't you with kit.

Are you mad, yes possibly to some, but as grab and go and rapid cooling, perhaps not.






 

Well IN THEORY I would get a shorter, lighter, quicker cooling scope that would be better suited to the Vixen GP.

My TSA 102 does weigh 6.4kg with all it’s bits.

I need to find out how much an FC-100 weighs with all it’s bits too.....

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It might be an idea to get some hands on with an FC 100 Dave. I know mine is a DC but having a play-around with my scope on your mount, using your eyepieces, would give you a feel for how a DF would handle and perform. If we get a reasonable night one weekend you might consider meeting up at your place or mine. Something to think about!

 

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Hello Mike, thanks for the offer, would really like to take a look at Jupiter through the FC when it gets into the evening sky.......

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2 hours ago, F15Rules said:

Hi David,

A left field suggestion..Have you considered a Vixen ED103s doublet?

Very light (3.6kg), similar focal length (F7.7) and an extra 3mm aperture (:grin::grin:). The stock focuser is very good (I have one, mine is a single speed but the later ones came with dual speed).

This was the scope that came after the legendary Vixen FL102s.

Mine stands up very well optically with my FS128 (apart from the extra aperture of course). 

And you could get a used one for a while lot less than an FC100!

Dave

Dave

I should have also suggested this as I too have the Vixen ED103s like Daves one.
It is a stonking scope, so much so that I am seriously reducing my scope fleet, to allow more time to use it.
These 4" scopes are just so nice to use.

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17 minutes ago, Alan White said:

Dave

I should have also suggested this as I too have the Vixen ED103s like Daves one.
It is a stonking scope, so much so that I am seriously reducing my scope fleet, to allow more time to use it.
These 4" scopes are just so nice to use.

hmmm interesting

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3 hours ago, dweller25 said:

Hello Dave

No I hadn’t - but I am now ? although Vixen say 5.4kg??

How much does yours actually weigh with finder, tube clamps, dovetail and extension tubes ??

Hi David

Good points. I am confident that bare tube is 3.6kg. Note also, like most Vixen fracs the tube is oversized at c115mm.diameter, but still very light.

I use mine with a Tak F'S 102 clamshell ( see photo)  as I sometimes mount the scope on my Tak EM2 mount. But I also have rings and a dovetail that I think might be a little lighter than the clamshell.

I suspect a set of rings and dovetail would weigh around 700-800 gm's, a 50mm finder with bracket c 1.2kg. A baader prism 1.25'  maybe 300-400g and a high power Ortho type ( you said you would use mainly high power EPs) less than 100g.

I don't use extension tubes.

I make that around 6kg fully laden but it's an estimate?.

Be wary of some website data..I have seen several sites saying the tube diameter is 90mm - it definitely is NOT!

I hope that is of some help.. Sadly I'm laid up today with manflu, otherwise I would have got the kitchen scales out!?

Dave

IMG_20170828_104446779_HDR-772x1372.jpg

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Keep the TSA102 and get a Vixen SD81S for grab'n'go if you'd like to stick to high-end brands. Otherwise there are so many choices for a 80 - 90 ED doublet.

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1 hour ago, KP82 said:

Keep the TSA102 and get a Vixen SD81S for grab'n'go if you'd like to stick to high-end brands. Otherwise there are so many choices for a 80 - 90 ED doublet.

Another good idea - thanks ?

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13 hours ago, dweller25 said:

I am thinking about selling my Tak TSA102 and getting a Tak FC-100DF for grab and go visual use only.

I need to keep weight down so will use my lightweight Vixen GP (rated at 7kgs capacity) on it's Hal aluminium tripod.

The TSA pushes this mount at high power - which is what I mostly use.

The TSA weighs 6.4kgs, the FC-100DF weighs 3.4kgs, visual performance should be the same.

"If Carling made 4" telescopes it would probably be a TSA102" ?

Thoughts - am I insane ? ?????

David, I had both scopes, TSA102 and FC-100DF. The FC-100DF is portable and grab&go compared to the TSA102. The FC-100DF cools faster as well. The TSA is color free as it gets. Though I had no issues with the FC-100DF, as it was color free to my eyes as well. Between these two scopes for visual only, I would always go with the FC-100DF. As I like the portability and fast cooldown of the FC-100DF.

 

To give you a size difference between the FC-100DF and the TSA-102, see the attached picture. This is the FC-100DF side by side with the FS-102NSV. FS-102NSV is the same size and dimension as the TSA-102.

20170120_001947.jpg

post-211726-0-90007700-1456015931.png

Edited by Stardust1
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I reckon this is one where you really need to run both scopes side by side for several weeks / months to determine which one you will eventually keep. I can see arguments for both from the reading I've done on these models. Roger Vine's assessment of the TSA102 is very pursuasive but the reports on here of what the FC-100's can do (plus my own experiences with my FC-100DL) are also compelling.

Not an easy one to call ! :smiley:

 

 

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I suggest you take a peek through a FC-100DF and FC-100DL before you decide which way to go. Both scopes are much lighter than the TSA-102, which feels like a tractor when you compare weights.

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19 hours ago, dweller25 said:

Hello Mike, thanks for the offer, would really like to take a look at Jupiter through the FC when it gets into the evening sky.......

We'll arrange that then Dave when the time comes.  A couple of years ago, around April time, a friend drove down from Cumbria to take his first look through the  FC. The night was one of the best I've ever experienced, and when he arrived the spring moon at first quarter was just 'out of this world' in the binoviewer. It was so good in fact that words alone are not enough to explain the view.  Words failed my friend also, or at least words that can be printed here! It would be great if we get another night like that this year, and if both the FC and the TSA are alongside eachother it would be astro heaven. And of course a great way of determining if an FC is the way to go as a light weight option to your already superb TSA. 

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It is a tough call to sell a TSA 102 in pursuit of a lighter FC-100. I can understand the desire for a lighter option. I have owned a TSA102 since 2008 and it has never failed to impress me when the conditions are right. I have no doubt the FC-100 would also be a very satisfying scope in use. I use the TSA on a Vixen GPD2 mount. I also have an FC-76DC since 2014 which goes with a Vixen Porta mount. That is my lightweight grab and go option.

If I didn't already have the TSA102 then the FC-100 would be my choice.  In the meantime I wait patiently for Takahashi to announce a new FC-125!

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1 hour ago, mikeDnight said:

We'll arrange that then Dave when the time comes.  A couple of years ago, around April time, a friend drove down from Cumbria to take his first look through the  FC. The night was one of the best I've ever experienced, and when he arrived the spring moon at first quarter was just 'out of this world' in the binoviewer. It was so good in fact that words alone are not enough to explain the view.  Words failed my friend also, or at least words that can be printed here! It would be great if we get another night like that this year, and if both the FC and the TSA are alongside eachother it would be astro heaven. And of course a great way of determining if an FC is the way to go as a light weight option to your already superb TSA. 

Look forward to that.......

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2 hours ago, plyscope said:

It is a tough call to sell a TSA 102 in pursuit of a lighter FC-100.

I have done that ?. I owned a DC, DL und the TSA and sold the TSA to thin the heard.

 

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1 hour ago, marcus_z said:

I have done that ?. I owned a DC, DL und the TSA and sold the TSA to thin the heard.

 

I sold the TSA102 and TSA120 as well in favor of the FS, DC, DF, DL.

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44 minutes ago, Stardust1 said:

I sold the TSA102 and TSA120 as well in favor of the FS, DC, DF, DL.

WOW, that seems to be telling us something! Have you any regrets? 

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The TSA had to leave  because I don't need so many scopes. It is (slightly) better corrected than the DL, but I had two reasons why I sold it:

  1. The tiny bit of better correction is not worth the heavier weight, which results in a larger mount, more counterweights, and finally a heavier setup.
  2. If I want to see "more" I can still take a larger scope, with higher resolution and about the same weight of the full setup.

Right now I have two DCs and a DL. My plan was to build a binoscope with the DCs, but the more I did my research for appropriate eyepieces, the more I realized, that the aperture ratio is not high enough to find wide-angle, bino-friendly eyepieces for large exit pupils. So that's why I want to sell one of the DCs. The other two scopes, DC and DL, are keepers ?.

Edited by marcus_z
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36 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

WOW, that seems to be telling us something! Have you any regrets? 

No regrets Mike! In the end I kept the FS-102NSV of the bunch. The only regret that I have is letting the FC-100DF go, that scope is so portable.

You had many nice scopes as well, in the end after having owned the FS152, FS128 you have settled on the FC-100DC. That scope just works for you in your situation. As the FS-102NSV works for me at my current situation. I'm sure if I lived in a different place my outcome would be different. If I would be living in a dark place then I would be happy with only my 16" dobson.

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