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Hardware rather than software


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It appears that my (one) USB 3 port has died & running these zwo cameras on USB 2 is incredibly painful.

Is it worth (possible) getting one of those repaired or am I going to have to fork out for another laptop?

Repeat after me ... computers are fun!

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You're certain that it's the port that is dead and not the cable or something like that? James

USB ports don’t tend to just die...I would exhaust all other options first...and there are a few..

Just buy a USB3 hub(powered) and plug it into the free slot - assuming its not something else as already pointed out ,as its unusual for a single USB port to die as they share an onboard hub/bus on th

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Assuming it's not under warranty would you be willing to take it apart and take a look at the connections for the port itself. Might be something as simple as a dry solder joint and easy to sort. If you do poke around in there, backing the thing up might is most definitely worthwhile.

Edit: back it up before it blows up ?

Edited by Prador
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20 minutes ago, Demonperformer said:

It appears that my (one) USB 3 port has died & running these zwo cameras on USB 2 is incredibly painful.

Is it worth (possible) getting one of those repaired or am I going to have to fork out for another laptop?

Repeat after me ... computers are fun!

USB ports don’t tend to just die...I would exhaust all other options first...and there are a few.. :)

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Just buy a USB3 hub(powered) and plug it into the free slot - assuming its not something else as already pointed out ,as its unusual for a single USB port to die as they share an onboard hub/bus on the Mobo normally.  Repeat after me  "I cant do what the computer can  - so live with it"

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27 minutes ago, stash_old said:

they share an onboard hub/bus on the Mobo normally. 

Dependent on chipset there may be multiple host controllers.

Try taking a look in Device Manager and expanding the Universal Serial Bus controllers tree. It may give more info as to why it's not responding.

Failing that does your laptop have an ExpressCard slot? If so, and the USB3 slot is really defective, an expansion card is relatively inexpensive (compared to a new laptop for sure) and will give you full SuperSpeed transfer rate (625mb/sec).

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Thanks for all the replies, and this has just got weirder.

When I plug the camera into that port it refuses to connect. When I plug the camera into the usb2 port next to it it works perfectly (bit mind-numbingly slowly). This suggests to me that the cable and camera are fine, but the socket on the computer is the problem - hence my original post.

But when I plug my usb3 drive into the usb3 port this morning to copy the data across it works perfectly - suggesting the socket is fine.

By bwain hurts!

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What to do next:

I've got three cameras that each came with a usb3 cable. I'll get them all out later and try each camera with each cable (9 combinations) in the usb3 slot and see what results I get. If they all do the same thing, I'm guessing that would make a socket problem more likely.

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12 minutes ago, Demonperformer said:

Thanks for all the replies, and this has just got weirder.

When I plug the camera into that port it refuses to connect. When I plug the camera into the usb2 port next to it it works perfectly (bit mind-numbingly slowly). This suggests to me that the cable and camera are fine, but the socket on the computer is the problem - hence my original post.

But when I plug my usb3 drive into the usb3 port this morning to copy the data across it works perfectly - suggesting the socket is fine.

By bwain hurts!

Reminds me of my camera problem with the Starlight Xpress; on the laptop I got for it, works well on one port but not the other. As you're having a similar problem, I'd guess it's the port or its driver. After all the struggling with the camera on the older (supposedly compatible laptop) I'm happy to leave it at that.

Logic doesn't always seem to work and computers are the work of the devil sometimes. So if you can live with connecting just like that I'd recommend you accept it for now. You'll probably waste far more time trying to fix it than the time you'll save on the faster connection and I'll put that effort into getting a more compatible pc.

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Sorry I didn't read from the top. I just saw you're having port problems. Having a more thorough look I agree with what's been said, though a card might be the safer option than dismantling your laptop...

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I thought I was confused before ....

I have three cameras, the new one is the 183, each of which came with a usb3 cable.
Every cable successfully connects each camera to the usb2 socket.
The cable that came with the 183 will not connect any camera successfully to the usb3 socket.
No cable will connect the 183 camera to the usb3 socket.
Of the other two cables, one will connect both of the other cameras to usb3, but the other won't connect either.

Three usbview screenprints attached showing:
successful connection of 183 camera to usb2 socket
successful connection of 224 camera to usb3 socket
what it looks like when I try to connect the 183 camera to usb3 socket

Go figure! :BangHead: (I'm getting to use this little emoji quite a lot recently)

usb2.png

usb3.png

usb3+.png

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3 hours ago, Demonperformer said:

When I plug the camera into that port it refuses to connect. When I plug the camera into the usb2 port next to it it works perfectly (bit mind-numbingly slowly). This suggests to me that the cable and camera are fine, but the socket on the computer is the problem - hence my original post.

I don't think you can assume that the cable is fine at this point.  It could be that the additional connections (that aren't used for USB2)  in the USB3 cable are damaged in some way.  That would still allow it to work in a USB2 port.

James

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1 hour ago, JamesF said:

I don't think you can assume that the cable is fine at this point.  It could be that the additional connections (that aren't used for USB2)  in the USB3 cable are damaged in some way.  That would still allow it to work in a USB2 port.

James

Didn’t think they had additional connections..both have 4 wires, or am I missing something..

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USB3 has nine conductors, I believe.  It is however possible to connect a device with a 4-conductor USB2 cable and it (should) work in USB2 mode.

James

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1 minute ago, JamesF said:

USB3 has nine conductors, I believe.  It is however possible to connect a device with a 4-conductor USB2 cable and it (should) work in USB2 mode.

James

Ok, well I Have Learnt something today.. :)

All my USB 3 and USB 2 cables work in both 2 and 3 ports...

 

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Yes, in some respects it's really quite a clever design in that it will generally degrade very nicely at both the host and device ends if there's a mismatch.

James

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There's a nice picture here showing all the connector types, and you can see how the USB3 versions actually provide the USB2 connections plus the additional new ones in such a way that they don't interfere with each other, so USB3 "A" matches USB2 "A", USB3 "B" matches USB2 "B" and USB3 "micro B" matches USB2 "micro B".

James

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I agree with James, to get the best performance, use good quality (e.g. Lindy Cromo's https://www.amazon.co.uk/LINDY-CROMO-USB-Type-Cable/dp/B007PKPVDO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1547036602&sr=8-1&keywords=lindy+cromo+usb+cable & https://www.amazon.co.uk/LINDY-CROMO-USB-Type-Cable/dp/B006NYGKMO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1547036628&sr=8-2&keywords=lindy+cromo+usb+cable) device\computer port, matched cables, yes they are more expensive, but what price reliable operation & the peace of mind it brings....

Using mismatched cables can cause issues with speed, connections etc.

If you don't have enough ports of any type then buy some powered hubs (e.g. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Port-USB-3-0-Hub-Industrial/dp/B015ZNWBYE/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1547036754&sr=8-17&keywords=startech+usb+hub), once again not cheap, but they are buy once & forget and they use the same 12v that is driving all the rest of the gear.

On topic, have you checked that the 183 camera firmware is up to date, as ZWO had issues with some of their cameras not connecting properly...

 

 

Edited by Dr_Ju_ju
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I don't mind forking out for one decent cable if that is going to fix it. I only need one USB 3 connection so don't have to worry about a powered hub - don't have an extra power socket anyway. How would I know about the firmware? Although I would have thought FLO would have provided the info to me as the purchaser if they were sending me a camera with ood software.

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12 minutes ago, Demonperformer said:

I don't mind forking out for one decent cable if that is going to fix it. I only need one USB 3 connection so don't have to worry about a powered hub - don't have an extra power socket anyway. How would I know about the firmware? Although I would have thought FLO would have provided the info to me as the purchaser if they were sending me a camera with ood software.

Sometimes firmware gets changed after a camera is sent as, whilst new, it could have been in stock for a while meaning it needs updating immediately.  I just bought an iOpton CEM120 mount, brand new, and needed to update 4 lots of firmware immediately.  It's always worth doing periodic checks to see whether there are any updates as fixes are implemented and bugs zapped.

Not sure that this is the fix to your issue, but you need to download the firmware upgrade tool to check it.

Info below borrowed from CN.

Hi ALL,
First, Sorry for this issue.
Some ideas won't appear in the manufacturer's instructions, so they'll be slower to find out by us. That's why some products are inconsistent.

Second, I've been here, and I'm happy to help you. So if you need help, just let me know. It is my pleasure.

Third, for the update, you can check the Firmware version in our FW update tools. and you can use the FW update tool to upgrade the FW.

So if you need, you can download the FW update tool from our website:
Support -> Software-> for developers ->Firmware Upgrade Tool. Download and run it.
Then send the result to me, like the image below: 
My Email address: chad.cao(at)zwoptical.com
Then I will send you the FW and a document to help you update the FW if it is necessary to upgrade.

Thanks
Chad
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Been checking out the cables on FLO.

My current cables are 2m which is enough, but does not leave me a whole lot of slack.

For £18 I can get a good quality 3m cable. So even if that does not solve the problem, once the problem is solved I will still get additional benefit from the purchase.

Plan!

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USB2 and USB3 use separate connections and circuitry in the USB3 connectors and hubs and they don't interact. Well they do use the same 2 USB2 power pins for +5V and 0V. The 5 extra pins in the USB3 connector (compared to USB2) are for USB3 data only, while the original 2 USB2 position pins in the USB3 connectors are for USB2 only. 

Data+/- are USB2 only. Receive +/- and Transmit +/- are USB3 only. The extra Ground connection between the USB3 pins is a reference ground and is not meant to carry any power current.

usb3-Apinout-600.jpg.5b00b1cd931fb167db36e0d5df70c6e8.jpg

usb3-Bpinout-600.jpg.e6d39b1881b53493478f7807d7aed123.jpg

If any component in the chain is USB2 only the USB2 pins will be used for communication throughout. So a USB2 device plugged into a USB3 hub will have no effect on USB3 devices plugged into the hub apart from possibly taking a little bandwidth of the total available, but as USB2 uses only 1/10 the bandwidth of a USB3 connection the performance hit on the USB3 is not significant. Two USB3 devices plugged into a hub will have a more significant effect on each others performance as the available bandwidth has to be shared equally between them.

Alan

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If it turns out to be a socket on the PC at fault there is a place near Elephant & Castle that does component level repairs to mother boards if it's economical.

Dave

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